rachelcassar

Hi all,
I was on here this time last year soaking up info from you all prior to my big US trip and you were all super helpful, so now I’m back to pick your brain about Europe.
I’ve done 2 months in Europe Jan-Feb before and covered all the big cities (Berlin, London, Rome, Prague etc) but this time I’m going for 1 month from mid-Aug to mid-Sep to experience a different side to Europe in the warmer months.
I’m writing to get everyone’s advice on what I can deduct from my draft itinerary as I can’t fit it all in – though I am known for fitting A LOT into a day, so will pack my month to the brim. We’re 22 year old Australians and don’t often sleep a lot on holiday!

I feel as though I don't need to see all of the places listed below in the one trip, as I feel many will double up. As beautiful as Greece, Croatia and Italy will be, we don't want to spend our whole holiday lounging on a beach so want to mix it up a little and get a good balance! We just want the best of those three - I'm thinking that we cannot fit Croatia as this requires at least a week.

- Start in Turkey. Few days in Istanbul and Cappadocia but am also interested in visiting Kabak Valley and Pamukkale. Thoughts?
- Get a taste of Greece via Santorini.
- Hungary, Budapest
- Croatia (Dubronovik?)
- Amalfi Coast, Italy
- Malta (Gozo and day trip to Comino)
- Barcelona, Spain
- Would love to see Portugal (Lisbon/Lagos) but don’t think time allows
And I think I’ll do short visits to Paris and Amsterdam again on the way home.

I used the Eurail last time I visited, but realise this time it won’t be quite as easy as many of the places I want to go do not have a Eurail train station.
This is disappointing as I'd much prefer train over plane!

Don't hold back - all opinions valid!

mariha2912

Greece -and I bet Croatia and Italy- is not just beach destinations. There are thousands years history, plenty of sites and sights, varied activities, varied landscape and ton of scenery among other things to keep you busy. On one month itinerary I would pick no more than 7-8 spots, preferably trying to lay an itinerary where travel logistics make sense rather than add complicated connections. Nowadays there are many direct flights on summer season from southern Europe/"beach resorts" areas to many cities in Europe but you have to book early enough to get reasonable rates.
Personaly I would combine Turkey+Greece+Italy or Italy+Croatia+Greece or Croatia+Italy+Malta . Barcelona can fit if you find a direct flight from one of the other spots, but I guess an other destination would have to go. I think nowadays there direct flights from/to some Greek islands on Vulaeling for example. Budapest seems the most tricky unless you plan to travel throiugh major cities such as Rome or Athens I guess. Portugal suits well with a trip to Spain, maybe you could go on one of your other countries first, then flight to Barcelona then explore Portugal, but you have to forget many of your other destinations.

I like the Turkey+Greece+Italy part because you could check the spots you like in Turkey, take a domestic flight to coastal areas such as Izmir, then cross on a ferry to Greek islands. Santorini is not directly on this area but you can work your way to there, exploring a couple of other destinations on the way. Then from Santorini you could fly to Florence, Milan or Rome on Vueling, Easyjet or Aegean.

All that said, I feel that even as afast traveler you would better stick with one or two countries and enjoy in leisure without too much moving around.

sandralist

For me, with a few exceptions, it would all be too much of the same thing, spending hours and hours on uncomfortable transportation getting to rocky places and ports with some ancient or medieval features, but mainly absolutely overrun with tourists and souvenir hawkers in the time frame you are looking at, simply bursting at the seams.

I can understand wanting to minimize cities in the heat of summer and enjoy some coastal beauty, and some variety in cultures. But what you are mainly going to experience is mega-mass tourism culture, which is just its own kind of zoo, and not come into interesting contact with interesting places.

Right now I would have a hard time committing myself to vacationing in politically unstable Turkey. I don't think the places you are going will be swept into violent war as some parts of Turkey are now enduring, but I think the overall mood and situation in Turkey is unpredictable. (Others very much disagree with me.) If I wanted to get busy buying air tickets, I would probably try to arrange the trip so that I wasn't committed to flying in or out of Turkey, so I could later take it out of the itinerary or put it in, depending on how things looked next June.

Just in general though I would be looking for more interesting coastal destinations, away from the tourist mobs as much as possible. Some place like Paestum would appeal to me more than Malta or the Amalfi coast. I would probably pick Lisbon over Barcelona, and try to find the least touristy experience of the Greek islands that I could in September.

sandralist

It occurs to me to add that during the peak summer season, there are a lot of flights going to Greek islands from small Italian airports that can make for some interesting combinations. For instance, you can fly from some Greek islands directly to Pisa or Verona on budget airlines. You can probably find other interesting airport connections using web searches.

rachelcassar

Thanks Mariha, I've visited the major Italian cities on my last trip and since this is the first time we've been able to travel during decent weather, we'd like to use this trip to see the gorgeous beaches. But I do agree - I don't want to do Croatia an injustice by just visiting coastal towns!
I'm going to add Athens into the mix to explore the history of Greece and I'm hoping to stop by either Split or Dubronovik (thoughts) on the way from Budapest > Italy (probably Positano/Praiano/Capri - worth stopping by Rome on the way too!).

Thanks for your input Sandra, I'm now taking your advice and making sure I get down to Lisbon and as I noted above, am not stopping by Athens and Rome to view historic landmarks/museums.

Itinerary is looking more like this:

Istanbul
Cappadocia
Athens
Santorini (back to Athens to get to Hungary)
Hungary
Possibly Split/Dubronovik on my way to Rome
Rome
Amalfi Coast
Barcelona
Lisbon
Paris
Amsterdam

I think I should be right to fly into Istanbul, but do understand your concerns. Turkey is what I am most looking forward to, so it makes sense to fly into there - it's also cheaper!

dreamon

I think you are crazy to attempt that itinerary, fwiw. You have some very long journeys which will probably need to be done by plane which is not at all relaxing and can take the best part of a day hotel to hotel. And you have long journeys followed by just a few days in your destination. I really suggest you research how you will travel from place to place before setting this in stone. You're young and you'll be back so I really think you'll get a better feel for places and have a better experience if you cover less ground. Stay long enough to learn something about the food, language, customs - even at a superficial level. That itinerary will just be a blur of planes, trains and buses. Sorry if that sounds negative but you did come here for advice.

rachelcassar

Hi dreamon, we've extended our trip to 6 weeks! I'll look closer into my route and see if I can simplify the travel time.

bilboburgler

Nothing wrong with Turkey that a fair election wouldn't solve. Nothing for a tourist to fear except serious sunstroke and take car of those hot air balloons and the lack of insurance cover.

Not sure what you mean "done the major italian cities" so what. Have you visited Bologna, Ravenna, Lecce, Taranto? for example. Is Naples a major city to you?

You've done London, how is it possible for a 22 year old to have done London ?

I like your energy I'd look at Turkey, Greece and All the Balkan states and that will fill far more than 6 weeks.

BTW. I think if I could I'd avoid August, everyone in the north of Europe will be on holiday in the south, so all facilites will be stretched so you pay the most.

Bit worried that Croatia is seen as Dubrovnik (which is a tiny little town at the end of the country, having spent 4 weeks in Croatia, 2 weeks in Montenegro, 1 week in Slovenia and not done it all (except Montenegro) I struggle to see how you can "do it" and the others in 6 weeks. Greece, just for example, has 227 inhabited islands. Now if you allow 6 hours each.....

sandralist

As far as I can tell, you will be at airports and on planes just about every 3 days of your trip. Even business travelers seldom undertake that much flying over a 6 week period.

You said in your original post that the motive for this trip is "to experience a different side to Europe in the warmer months." What side are you traveling so many miles (at considerable expense) in hopes of experiencing?

rachelcassar

Sandra, I've done trips to both Europe and America and spent 3 days in each destination and didn't have a problem with this schedule. I fit a lot into each day, and find after 2-3 days I've seen enough and am itching for the next destination. I think we have very different tastes.

This is my updated itinerary FYI:

Aug 18 > Barcelona
Aug 19 > Barcelona
Aug 20 > Barcelona
Aug 21 > Barcelona > Rome (via plane)
Aug 22 > Rome
Aug 23 > Rome to Positano (via train)
Aug 24 > Positano
Aug 25 > Positano (day trip to Capri)
Aug 26 > Positano
Aug 27 > Positano back to Rome via train
Aug 28 > Rome to Santorini (via plane)
Aug 29 > Santorini
Aug 30 > Santorini
Aug 31 > Santorini
Sep 1 > Santorini to Athens (via plane)
Sep 2 > Athens
Sep 3 > Athens to Istanbul (via plane)
Sep 4 > Istanbul
Sep 5 > Istanbul
Sep 6 > Istanbul to Cappadocia (via plane)
Sep 7 > Cappadocia
Sep 8 > Cappadocia
Sep 9 > Cappadocia to Istanbul (via plane)
Sep 10 > Istanbul to Paris (via plane)
Sep 11 > Paris
Sep 12 > Paris
Sep 13 > Paris to Amsterdam (via train)
Sep 14 > Amsterdam
Sep 15 > Amsterdam
Sep 16 > Amsterdam
Sep 17 > Amsterdam

We may extend the trip and instead go Istanbul > Berlin > Amsterdam - looking into routes now.

kja

Personally, I don't mind relocating often, but I hate leaving a place having only skimmed it -- and that's what this itinerary sounds like to me: skimming. Ex: Istanbul easily merits a minimum of 6 days. Only 2 days for Cappadocia is very rushed. 3 days for the Amalfi Coast is also very rushed. I recommend that instead of thinking "3 days per place", identify the things you most want to see in each location, note their opening/closing times, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from the train/bus station or whatever, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together. You might end up deciding to cut a destination or two....

sandralist

I don't know what your tastes are, which is why I asked the question I did, and didn't say what my tastes are. I just pointed out that most business travelers would have a hard time with that frequency of plane trips over 6 weeks. Maybe 2 weeks of that. 3 weeks starts pushing it. If you have happily taken a plane every 3 days or so for 6 weeks in a row and want to do it again, that's nothing about me. It's about you!

I still don't know what you are looking for that is different from your other trips -- other than warm weather. If you want to take the same kind of trip you took in Jan-Feb but in August instead, I misunderstood your original post.

Mamafromdownunder

All I know is Dubrovnik & Split in Croatia. We have returned from Dubrovnik and Split a year ago and honestly it was mind-blowing. If you are going in July just always spare a thought of the heat.

Old Dubrovnik Town is a magnificent place such history, mind-blowing. Take a ride on the chairlift to Mt. Srd to the war museum now that place will make you humble. If you are staying there may i suggest a bottle of wine with a friend on top of Mt. Srd and watch the sunset...If you haven't fallen in love with the town yet, you will at that point. Spending a day there is not enough...I would suggest three days in Dubrovnik, staying in the old town itself will make you appreciate the beauty of the town...We got there by bus from Split, and caught a local bus to Pile Gate (the main entrance to the old fort). Bus ride took about couple of hours.

Split, is so so charming the gateway to the Dalmatian Coast Line...So many islands to choose to go to. Don't hurry Split, allow Split to immerse into you blood. We hurried Split and we are so so Sorry. My oldest son has been there and stayed four days. From a young person's perspective it was one of the most memorable time he has had. Yes Split was warm (late August)but a cold drink helped. He arrived to Split by bus from Zagreb had not issues getting there.

Best of luck on your journey.....from mama