psych4travel

Tossing around some ideas at the family dinner this week and we decided that visiting SE Asia next Christmas would be fun. Flying from Canada & US. Experienced European travelers, but have never visited this region. Mother(retired) and daughter duo that are interested in temple/religious sites and food. Zero interest in beaches, hiking, waterfalls, etc. Nature is pretty from a boat/car.

An initial glance at maps and online itineraries led us to contemplate Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam.

Thailand - primarily interested in Bangkok
Cambodia - Angkor Wat & surrounds
Vietnam - no idea...HCMC?

Budget will allow us to fly between sites if needed, or a mix of overland & flights.

We have about 16 days (including travel days to/from Asia)...so about 14 days on the ground. Could possibly add 2 days.

I know that the ideal is to concentrate on one country in that amount of time; however, Mom is retired and her travel budget is limited. It's likely that she will never return (Asia intrigues her, but is not at the top of her travel wish list). She is most interested in highlights trips.

Any thoughts on how to make those 3 countries "do-able" within 14-16 days on the ground?

Kathie

I'd cut VN to make this a more do-able trip. There is plenty to keep you interested in Cambodia (Angkor Wat area) and Thailand (Bangkok and a side trip to Chiang Mai or elsewhere). The less moving around you do, the more time you will have to experience and enjoy. Also, the more you move around, the more money you spend on transport.

To prepare for the tip to Cambodia, get a copy of Dawn Rooney's book, Angkor: A Guide to Cambodia's Wondrous Temples. Dawn says it takes three days just to visit the major temples. If you re really interested in the temples, you will want more time. We spent a week there and just loved it. I highly recommend flying to Siem Reap, as the overland trip would take a full day each way and the trip across the border from Thailand to Cambodia is full of scams for the unwary. Bangkok Air has frequent flights from Bangkok to Siem Reap. The tickets are expensive, but you can reduce the cost by using the Discovery Pass - you just need three legs on Bangkok Air to qualify. Read about it at the Bangkok Air website.

In Thailand, you will want plenty of time in Bangkok for the wonderful wats and the wonderful food. A side trip to Chiang Mai would give the opportunity to get a glimpse of Northern Thailand and visit Doi Suthep (outside of CM) and many wats inside the city walls.

Have a wonderful trip!

psych4travel

Hi Kathie,

Thank you very much for the insight! I have also read about chiang mai and was struggling with vietnam. My original thoughts were always Thailand + Siem Reap...but then Vietnam looks so close! It's so tempting to want to keep adding things when you travel so far to get there. Especially since I know Mom won't return.

I will look more into N. Thailand to see what would interest us.

Thank you for the suggestion!

I wonder if the temples/wats will start to become like European castles...after about 10-20 of them they all start blurring together.

MmePerdu

I agree with Kathie to cut VN from this trip. Group travel becomes infinitely smoother when you choose locations with good tourist infrastructure - that's Thailand.

I'd be inclined to consider Bali, rather than Cambodia, as the second location for the same reason. In any case, Thailand combined with either Cambodia or Bali would make a terrific trip. Any 2 of them will have enough temples to keep the religious site lovers happy.

Kathie

People do have different levels of interest in wats and temples, so "know thyself" is a good thing to keep in mind as you plan. We are really temples fanatics, and find we have the greatest interest in Buddhist temples. The temples at Angkor are a combination of Buddhist and Hindu and are all anchoret temples. In Thailand, the temples you are in Bangkok and Chiang Mai are all "working wats" with resident monks - a very different experience. The Thai temples differ from each other - a lot - and you can choose a variety of places that are very different in appearance and atmosphere. Also, while in Thailand, mix up your sightseeing: Vist wats, then go to a wonderful Thai restaurant for lunch. Visit the Jim Thompson House(a complex of traditional Thai houses with antique furnishings), maybe the Prasart Museum if SE Asian arts interest you, and perhaps the Suan Pakkard House for the exquisite Laquer Pavillion.

The idea of Bali is a good one, but I'm not sure it meets your goals. There are many Hindu temples on Bali, but I find them less interesting (even as a temples fanatic) than the Buddhist temples of Thailand. It is a wonderful place and the spiritual practices permeate everything. Since you have little interest in beaches, I'd stay inland near Ubud. But it is a much longer flight from Bangkok than Cambodia is.

psych4travel

Thank you mme. It will be just the two of us traveling...but we are used to European infrastructure.

I've contemplated Bali...but for a different trip. That is, I think Cambodia is higher on my list of places I want to visit as compared to Bali.

Thank you again Kathie. I am eager to explore a different region, with different religious sites. I absolutely love European architecture and Roman ruins....I hope that Asian temples will live up to my imagination.

I'll be purchasing some guidebooks soon. I'll likely add a Vietnam guidebook...just to explore and be sure that we are choosing the countries that best match our interests.

MmePerdu

Two weeks in Asia is, I feel, a very short trip. Even as someone who's spent a great deal of time in Asia, I found VN heavy rowing at times. Specifically, travel from one place to another by public transport or even by road. If you decide to go to VN, choose either north or south, and I recommend the north, down as far as Hoi An. And to make it less rushed, I think you'd want to exclude anything else except maybe Bangkok. It would not make, to my way of thinking, a very satisfying trip, given your stated interests.

You might also visit just Bangkok, just Ankor and just Hanoi, one of my favorite cities, by the way, and reduce logistical difficulties. But again, it sounds to me not especially satisfying. Asia is not Europe and quick changes of direction will wear you out with no appreciable gain. VN is worth seeing but it takes time. As with Bali, consider saving it for another time.

psych4travel

Mme - thank you for your advice. The logistics of traveling between places in Asia will be something to consider. As you say, it is so easy and efficient to get around Europe.

I agree that 2 weeks is short...but during the winter that is all I have available. I would prefer to avoid hot & humid during the summer (when I have more time off). So the time off in the winter seemed like a great way to get a taste of SE Asia.

Hmmm, so if we just did the big places, and flew between them, then it may be possible?

I remember our first trip to Europe....we tried to squeeze in so much. We were exhausted but satisfied. However, now that we've returned numerous times we have definitely slowed down and concentrated on spending lots of time in one area/city.

So I feel like my first visit to Asia I want to get the highlights and then decide whether or not to return. That probably seems like a crazy travel strategy, but it has worked for us in Europe.

MmePerdu

No, I don't find your strategy crazy at all, quite the contrary. If highlights of 3 places are what you seek, then yes, I'd say flying from one city to another would make 3 possible in 2 weeks. I wasn't criticizing your 2 weeks, btw, just noting it to keep aspirations in line. Any amount of time is fine if you know the limits of it. And the limits imposed by particular locations.

If you do decide on the 3 cities, resist the impulse to add places on just because they're "close". Travel time eats up time and energy, time and energy you could spend seeing right where you are.

thursdaysd

If you fly, and pick three places, you should not find travel in Asia too difficult. I think Bangkok, Siem Reap and Hanoi would make an excellent first trip. I am not a big fan of Bangkok, but it is a major transport hub and a logical first place. Like Kathie, I needed a lot of time with the temples at Angkor Wat, and there are several different styles, but if this is your first exposure to Buddhist temples, you might not need as long. Especially with the prospect of Hanoi, one of the most fascinating (and well fed) cities around, to tempt you.

Craig

My first inclination was to recommend Bangkok, Siem Reap and Hanoi and certainly, if not these then a maximum of 3 destinations for your first trip. Given your priorities of temple/religious sites and food, this plan appears to be a winner. Weather will be hot in Bangkok and Siem Reap (it always is) and cooler in Hanoi. Flying between destinations is the only way to go IMO. Unless you are really into temples, 3 full days in Siem Reap is plenty. Otherwise you will just burn out. A side trip to Tonle Sap might be a worthy diversion. Divide the rest of your time between Bangkok and Hanoi. You could do an overnight cruise to Halong Bay from Hanoi but the weather may not be optimal for that in December. Day trips from Bangkok include the floating market, which is popular with first-time tourists. All three destinations will offer a wide variety of food options in addition to the local cuisine...

MmePerdu

Halong Bay was one of the possibilities I found unpleasant to get to from Hanoi and to try to resist. Otherwise, there seems to be consensus, fly among the 3 sites and have time to experience all 3. I actually prefer Chiang Mai to Bangkok, but that's after spending time in both a number of times. I love Hanoi, could live there if they'd let me. I think it'll be an excellent introduction to Asia.

dgunbug

Given that this is likely mom's only trip to Asia, I think the three city highlight tour would be perfect. I also concur that you should visit Hanoi over Saigon, however, given the limited time, I would skip the idea of halong bay as the ride there is long and boring and will eat up a half day in each direction. Instead, spend 1/2 day while in siem reap, visiting tonle sap to see the floating villages and life on the lake. We did the short ride to the boat by tuk tuk and it was terrific as it also allowed us to see the small villages on the way. If you get an early morning flight to siem reap, you will have enough time to begin exploring temples that afternoon.

As for the weather, don't be surprised if you encounter hot, humid and misreable weather that will suck the life out of you. But for those who have gone before you and continue to travel to Asia, the weather is a small inconvenience to pay for the fascinating sites you will encounter.

psych4travel

Hello all,

Thank you so very much for your thoughts. I am somewhat gratified to see that a 3 city tour might not be crazy!

I will look Into Hanoi. For some reason I always think of Saigon...but have no preference. I'm sure flights back from Hanoi will be just as plentiful.

Temples and food...exactly what we are looking for.

So possibly something like:

3 days Bangkok
3-4 days siem reap
4 days Hanoi

Or do 5-5-5? From what I read, Bangkok doesn't need that long? Or perhaps add extra time to a city that could be used as a base to explore for some surrounding villages. I'm not sure how feasible that is...as I said, my experience is primarily traveling in Europe. In Europe, I will often use a major city as a base...spend 3-4 days exploring the city and then start doing day trips outside the city.

I'll be ordering some guidebooks from Amazon this week. Any suggestions for a brand that covers this region well?

thursdaysd

I like Lonely Planet, and they have a 3 for 2 sale on right now, print or digital.

Craig

5-3-5 would make more sense to me. If you have more time, plan day trips from Bangkok or Hanoi. Almost any guide book will give you the highlights, although you can get great (and current) recommendations for restaurants and hotels here and on Tripadvisor.com as well as suggestions for sight-seeing.

psych4travel

Thank you Thursday. I'll check out their website tonight!

Craig - we'll have a full 14 days on the ground (possibly as much as 16). Would it make any sense to travel to phnom phen from siem reap? And fly out from there? Or just focus on the cities and add day trips from them?

crellston

I agree with Craig's suggestion of 5-3-5 and use part of the time in Hanoi to get out of the city into the Countryside. Ninh Binh is really beautiful. Try a homestays for a taste of real Vietnamese life. Do check out the weather though as it can be cold an damp at that time of year.

Bangkok will fill 5 days on its own, but again a trip out of the city will provide a change of pace and scene.

Phnonm Penh is a great city to visit but I don't think you have enough time, although if you are interested in 20th century history, it is not to be missed. Easy to fly or bus from SR to PP.

psych4travel

Thank you crellston. I agree re PP....now I'm adding things.

I will check the weather for Hanoi. I was trying to avoid colder/snowy places for this trip...but I can't imagine it would be that cold (I'm currently in -45C temps visiting family, so it can't be worse than this Christmas!).

Homestays? That sounds fun....I will certainly look into it.

I know we can't immerse ourselves in the culture in this short time, but it would be nice to try

psych4travel

Temps in Hanoi average in the 60sF, which is just fine.

As for hot and humid....no problems. I lived in Miami for a time....the humidity does suck the life out of you!