in thailand the rainy season is september... it is fine in dec/jan, and generally it is the same in the other places you mention..

indonesia is generally less expensive than some of the other countries, esp malaysia..

thailand has the best infastructure for sure..

book your hotel rooms now to avoid disappointment!!

It is true that Dec is the rainy season in much of Indonesia. That said, I've traveled in Indonesia in Nov/Dec a number of times and had a fine time. The rain is typically intense for a couple of hours, then the sun comes out.

If you opt for Indonesia, I think I'd start in Jogja rather than in Jakarta. Spend some time exploring central Java then take the train to Malang (we are doing this trip in Nov). From Malang, you can visit Injn and Bromo as well. Two weeks on Java would be lovely. From there, there are a number of options for beach or diving. Look for a reply to your post from marmot, our resident Indonesian expert. For accommodations, take a look at the Phoenix Hotel in Jogja, the Tugu Malang and the Java Banana at Bromo.

Thailand would be nice as well, but more crowded. There are some interesting options in Malaysia as well (but I wouldn't fly into KL and take the train, as that keeps you in less interesting areas). You could consider Malaysian Borneo, both Sabah and Sarawak for a combination of wildlife (look at the Borneo Rainforest Lodge) and beach (look at the Shangri-La hotels).

Oops - I noticed that my fingers were faster than my brain or vice versa and I typed Ijen incorectly. Besides, I wanted to bring your post to teh top again in the hope that one of our Indonesia experts would reply.

You might find my trip planning thread to be helpful. www.fodors.com/community/asia/help-with-java-trip-please.cfm
We have most of the trip firmed up. We have decided to go by train from Jogja to Malang.

Thanks, Kathie. A couple follow-up questions:

1) We're trying to maybe narrow down on a major hub airport to fly into and buy our tickets there soon, and then buy an intra-Asia flight a in month or two to wherever we end up going. Which would you choose? Bangkok seems like a logical (and reasonable choice)

2) Do you agree with my idea to skip Bali, or will it not be as bad as I imagine? I've heard there are places to easily skip the tourists.

3) If we are avoiding resort-y areas, do you think hotels ahead of time are absolutely necessary? We usually book our first and last nights, but then wander around some.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your trip planning string- helpful! Let me know if you think of anything else.

The java Banana though expensive for the area $160wtax is a great hotel if you can get there in the early afternoon and enjoy the property and then go to Bromo for the sunset it can be lovely. Then up at 3:14 -3:30 to get to the sunrise by 4:15 AM. That was fine and we were there Dec. 3-4 last year.Then off to the airport, 2.5 hrs away for your next destination. You can fly from Solo to Surabaya only 40 minutes from Yogja.
I personally would not pass up Bali. Further I would hire a guide/ We use Put wjho also goes by the name Balifriend. He charged us about $60 for a 10 hour day. I would take 2 days. If you wat special the Papuan rice fields in West Bali a 2.5 hour trip but lovely going and boring coming back because of traffic (time of day). They are NOT anything like the terraces witin 15 miles of Ubud. The other day I would devote to Ubud and maybe Sanur.
I always talk about the guide we use in Yogja so I will not bore you here but he is the best guide we have traveled with in 43 years because he is so knowledgeable. He should after 18 years of touring, a draguate degree and working with UNESCO. All I say is contake him and ask for a 2 day proposal and tell him Stan referred you.
wiedyantara@hotmail.com
Good luck!!

1. The choice of your hub airport depends on where you plan to go. Bangkok is usually the least expensive entry point to SE Asia from North America. But when I'm going to Indonesia, I like to use Singapore as my entry point. So if you opt for Indonesia (or Malaysian Borneo) choose Singapore, as the sir connections will be easier. You can still make air connections work from bangkok to Indonesia, but your intra-Asia flights will be longer and you'll have to take connecting flights unless you are going straight to Bali.

2. Bali will be busy at that time of the year. That said, here are places that are more isolated. Read up on Bali (unique culture as it is Hindu) and on other options Flores? Sumatra? A live-aboard cruise through the islands? See what appeals to you.

3. Even if you are avoiding resort-y areas, at that time of the year, I think you will still need reservations in advance. Off the beaten path places are often small, so it doesn't take very many other guests to fill it up.

I would agree that you should book as soon as you can. Hotels at that time of year have returning guests, who come back year after year because they enjoy the hotel and location.

December is the beginning of the rainy season in Java and Bali, but beyond that it's hard to tell you exactly what that entails as not all rainy seasons are created equal. Generally you'll get a few days in which it rains for a few hours, often, but not always, in the evening, then a few days of constant sunshine. Sometimes storms blow in and you get 2-3 grey days with intermittant showers. Sometimes there's a drought and it doesn't rain at all. If you're spending a few days in a specific destination, you may or may not be affected by the weather, so it's best to think about what activities would be difficult if wet.

In Java and Bali you might lose out on evening dance performances, dining outside under the stars, serious mountain trekking and baking on the beach, but I doubt very much that the rainy season would negatively impact your entire honeymoon. There are plenty of rain-friendly activities. In fact the rain can be atmospheric and refreshing. Watching a thunderstorm from your balcony, listening to the rain while getting a massage, any excuse for a nap.

As for being in Bali during the high season: December wouldn't be my first choice, but for many travelers that's the only time of year that's workable for a long trip. Aside from New Year's Eve, which has become insane in the touristed areas, you won't notice a huge difference. Dinner reservations at popular spots become harder to come by, traffic intensifies, but overall Bali is still Bali.

All of the southern beaches and all of Ubud and surroundings take up about 1/4 of Bali's land area. There are off the beaten track places and the Balinese with their vibrant culture and religious rituals are everywhere, even on the beach.

So if Bali's where you want to spend your honeymoon, don't talk yourself out of it.

Elsewhere in Indonesia, all of Java -- West, Central and East -- has a lot to offer to the adventurous traveler. Getting from place to place is not so easy, though, and the trains are definitely not of the well run Malaysian variety.

I'm not a great fan of Lombok and the Gilis so I'll leave that advice up to someone who's been there more recently. If you really want to get further and further out there, look at Sulawesi (Tanah Toraja and Manado) and the islands east of Lombok -- Sumba, Sumbawa, Flores.

Again it's not so easy to get from place to place, so a pre-travel plan is essential, but then, I'm of the plan in advance school.

If you choose Indonesia, I agree that a combination with Singapore is ideal.

A honeymoon without Bali when in Indonesia as others have said does "not compute" Going to Bali and being so close to Yogja also if magnificant culture is of interest to you should not be passes up. As marmot said I too see no reason to return to Lombok and to be frank the Gillis would not be that high on my "hit list" but a 1-1.5 day visit to Taraja and snorkeling or diving off Monodo in Bunaken and seeing the Komodo dragons is a hoot. If you want to see less dragons but also dive then Flores is an option.
Doing too much is not the objective. Having a good culturing experience should be. When wecwere younger we thought we could do everything but it was so superficial that we had few memories. Please keep that in mind as you make you final plans.

Thanks, all! We're going to chew on this til the end of the month, and then make a decision. I'm feeling a little less scared off by Bali - especially if folks here can suggest particularly quiet places? @StanKase- We are not looking to schlep around a lot, so we're hoping to zero in on a couple islands, no more. It sounds like 2 weeks on Java and a week on Bali might fit the bill.

I agree we're going to have to plan a little more than usual! I'll keep you updated, and ask more questions as I have them. Thanks especially for the Java suggestions- they're very helpful.

lacey, I'd say 1 week in Java and 2 weeks in Bali, or at least 50/50.

I agree with marmot. 6-7 days in Java. 10 in bali and if you want excellent snorkeling and pay the airfare and see the Komodo Dragons fly to Monado and stay at a resort for 6 days relax and snorkel (select a resort that offerssnorkel outings daily for a fee ($75-$85/person to Bunaken National Preserve for fantastic snorkeling. better than Bali by a lomg shot and you can get to Komodo Dragons easily. Those three in 21 days would be special, I think.

Okay, starting to work on a tentative itinerary. Some quandries:

1) The plan is to fly into Singapore, and then head to Jogja for 3-4 nights, taking in the city and environs. I'd like to head somewhere else in Java for a couple days. I know folks have strong feelings about Bromo, but we're actually interested in a beach for Christmas (but not on Bali) Any good ones within a day of travel from Jogja?

2) Thinking of flying from Jogja- DPS on the day after Christmas, spending a day or two in Ubud, working our way up to either the Northest or Northwest coast. Does this sound like a quiet spot for New Years?

Lodging recs are welcome- Definitely looking at Phoenix for Jogja. I'd say we'd like to average $50-100/night (excluding SNG where we're happy to pay a little more). If you could spend a little more on Bali, where's the best value for that? Ubud or beach?

Dec 16, 17- Singapore (to explore/catch up on sleep)
Dec 18-22 Jogja (taking day trips to Solo, Borobudur, Prambanam etc)
Dec 23-25 Java beach?
Dec. 26-27 Ubud
Dec 28-Jan 3- Amed or Pemuteran
Jan 4- Fly out of DPS

Or... Should we just spend 4 days in Jogja, fly to Bali and plunk for a good week/10 days, then make our way back to Ubud for a few days, and fly out of DPS. If you're keeping track (i'm not) the itinerary would be something like...

Dec 18-21 Jogja
Dec. 22rd travel day to Bali
Dec. 23-30 somewhere beachy in Bali (or Lombok?)
Dec 31-Jan 3- Ubud
Jan 4 fly our of DPS

Kathie- you mentioned having a lovely time in Lombok around Dec. Is it possibly to make it from Jogja to Lombok in 2 days? (I assume we'd fly to DPS, and then get to the Lombok ferry).

Sorry for all the fuss- in the 2 hours between posts I got some recommendations from friends who just returned from an awesome time in Lombok/Gili Air.

I think option two is the better choice. A beach on Java is a not a very good idea anytime of year, and an especially terrible plan for Christmas. Java is a small island -- but is home to 160,000 million people most of whom live in the Central province. More than you could possibly imagine will be at the beaches over the Christmas holidays. And everyone else will be at Borobudur.

So what can you do? Lombok would be a good choice or just head to Bali and accept that Christmas and New Years are popular and busy times everywhere.

You could easily fill up a week in Ubud and the surrounding area. Look a little further north and little further east and west -- not on the coast but in the countryside outside of the town of Ubud. There are a lot of lovely spots with out of the way, charming resorts and villas.

I haven't checked the flights, but to get to Lombok from Yogya you may be better off back tracking to Jakarta and then taking a non-stop to Lombok. I prefer Garuda to the budget airlines because it is more dependable and has more flights. The holiday season is very very busy time for the airlines so book in advance and expect delay.

You can also fly to Denpasar and connect by air to Lombok. I think this is a better plan than trying to transfer to one of the ferries.

Pemuteran and the northcoast is quiet. Other than diving and snorkling it doesn't have a lot of draw. North Bali is culturally mixed Muslim and Hindu and fairly arid and lacks the spiritual intensity and natural beauty of central Bali. I haven't been to Amed lately so can't comment.

Personally, I like Seminyak beach. It's big enough (maybe 10 miles long and about 100+ yards deep at low tide) so that even when it's crowded it seems spacious and beautiful. There are lots of choices in accomodation and lot of beach resort-y things to do like restaurants, clubs, spas, shopping.

Wherever you end up for Christmas and New Years, ask about their special event policy. At some resorts, attending their New Years party is "mandatory" meaning you get billed for it even if you hideout in your room.

I would personally skip Lombok and go to the Seminak beach area. People may like the Sanur beach area but Seminak might be a tad quieter and as I recollect from 2 years ago nicer beach areas.Saves some money as well. It would easily pay for 2 days of a guide $60-$65 for a 10 hr, day and he can take you to some good hiking areas. There is a guide used by many on this Forun called Putu and also goes by the name Balifriend that we found was quite good. He is a little quite but just ask him questions and that gets him going. He is very pleasant. I would rate him an 8 vs, Wiedy in Java who I rate a 9.5.

The Phoenix is $90-$100+/- for a stardard room. If you cjoose to uzse the guide I use he get's 10-20% off the rate becausehe books 10 nights aeek at the Phoenix and Hyatt (Hyatt is 30+% more). The way I look at it he pays for 40%-50% 0f his daily rate of $75-$80USD by the hotel discount alone. Three days (4 nights) in Yogja is enough including visiting Solo, the Temples, small villages and Dieng Paleau if weather is good. bAn hour or two at the main mall is interesting just to look.