dbarks

So, I thing I really want to go to Angkor Wat, but don't want to pay the air fair. It looks like a 6 to 7 hr drive. Anyone ever tried that and how painful would it be?

Kathie

I'm assuming you don't mean that you would self-drive. You have options like a scheduled bus, a mini-bus from KSR or train. In every case, you'll have to cross the border on foot, get your visa, and pick up new transport, either a shared taxi or a pick-up with benches in the back. For all of the details on how to do this and avoid the (many scams and pitfalls) take a look at www.talesofasia.com

Kathie

PS another way to do it - not as long or painful is to fly Bangkok to PP on Air Asia (cheap) then a taxi to Siem Reap.

dogster

Heya d: going to Siem Reap is a good idea. Going overland is a bad idea.

rhkkmk

yes many have tried it and at least 10 were successful...the others have never been heard from again

dogster

lol rhk: yup - it CAN be done - but only a very confused person would want to.

Return BKK - Siem Reap BANGKOK AIR 9,500 baht/One way 5,400
Return BKK - P.P. AIR ASIA 3,000 baht/One way 1750

dogster

more or less.

thursdaysd

Really, it's not THAT bad! I did it the other way - car and driver to the border, walk across, take comfortable government bus to Bangkok. Do NOT take the scam buses from Khao San road (talesofasia.com has all the gory details), and don't go overland if the road in Cambodia is in particularly bad shape.

thursdaysd

I just took a look at talesofasia.com, and learned that (re)surfacing the road between Poipet and Siem Reap was finished in May this year. Quote: "There are no longer any road conditions to speak of. It's 1.5 to 2 hours by taxi and perhaps 2.5 to 4 hours by bus depending on how many times and for how long they stop."

crellston

We did this trip last year. we jumped on a train in BKK (I think around 40 baht) for the 4/5 hour journey to Aranyabpratet. It was a local train with hard seats only and no air-conditioning and pretty much entirely patronised by Thais and Cambodians returning home. Hot an uncomfotable yes but enjoyable nonetheless. The train arrived at Aranyabpratet in the early evening and we then found a room in a pretty dire guesthouse before crossing the border early in the morning. The border itself seems to be some sort of centre of excellence for rip offs and scams, EVERYBODY is trying it on! First the Thai border guards trying to get you to pay "exit fees". Then the Cambodians insisting that you need to pay for Cambodian visa in Thai baht at rates inflated by 4X (the rate is/was $25 US). We naturally refused and so he ripped up our application forms and start again. This time we got our visas stamped but on walking to passport control we noticed that he had not dated them (I am certainly deliberately) so we had to go back and get them dated (which he thought to be highly amusing!).

Once through the border ther are shuttle buses to the "bus station" (i.e. a lot of people waiting by a restaurant for buses rather than an actual building. Buses to SR were costing $10pp and seemed ok but we had pre arranged a car from the guest house where we were staying and I thing we paid $40-50.

The road was then a dirt track and, apart from Sierra Leone, was the dustiest road I had ever been on. The trip took around 5 hours or so through pretty uninspiring scenery.
As thursdays points out it is really not that bad and the train trip was enjoyable. The car ride in Cambodia was a bit tedious but ok. I hav used buses all over Cambodia and they are an ok means of travel but some operators will try to pack 20 people and their luggage into a bus for 12. It is extremely important to keep your traveller wits about you at the border (its also rife with pickpockets, particularly the sweet looking kids!)

dbarks

Decided on Angkor not entirely, however the idea of self driving did appeal to me. I am taking it that unless I have a counter terrorism squad following me that I should choose public transportation. Darn shame.

The self drive idea was my first thought, Thanks for the ideas and I will investigate and decide if Siam Reap or more beach is in order.

My this planning is fun.

thursdaysd

If you have any interest in temples or architecture you should not miss Siem Reap - and the sooner the better. You should forget driving yourself in most of Asia.

BTW crellston, talesofasia says the correct price for a Cambodian visa at the border is $20. I think it's easier going SR-BKK rather than the other way round.

thursdaysd

<i>"I am taking it that unless I have a counter terrorism squad following me that I should choose public transportation."</i>

Not driving yourself in Asia has nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with the state of the roads and the behavior of your fellow-road users. Even when it's legal (in China you need to be an expat and jump through a bunch of hoops to be allowed to drive), and can find someone to rent you a car, in much of Asia you'd be a fool to try, especially when there are so many alternatives. (I'd consider driving in Malaysia, and I hear that Japan isn't too bad).

State of the roads - anything from rutted/potholed mud/dirt on up. Fellow road users - note I don't say drivers - depending on the country some subset of: pedestrians, pedestrians pulling carts, cyclists, cyclists pulling carts, motorbikes (usually overloaded), donkeys/horses/bullocks/camels pulling carts, stray cows, elephants, tuk-tuks/rickshaws/songthaews, cars, minibuses, big buses and lots of big trucks. Most don't have lights, and none have any idea of staying in lanes, assuming any are marked in the first place.

Nerve-wracking if you don't have an accident, and potentially disastrous if you do. And good luck navigating in some places. Since usually there is plenty of public transport, or you hire a car and driver for not much more than a car, there's no reason to think about driving yourself.

shanek

I love the freedom of driving in Asia and I dont consider myself a fool. There are certain places that I would avoid it, and Cambodia may be one of those, but on the whole, the road conditions in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore are quite good and well signposted. The roads are certainly no worse than in places like central Australia.

If you keep your wits about you, drive slowly and give way to everything including stray cows and elephants, you will survive.

Kathie

I agree that the roads in the three countries you mention are pretty good to very good, shanek. But you can't take a vehicle across the border from Thailand into Cambodia, and even if the road from Poipet to Siem Reap has been improved, it's still not in great shape. Thursdays description of the "traffic" along Cambodian roads doesn't do the chaos justice.

shanek

Yes Kathie, as I mentioned, even I would be likely to give Cambodian driving a miss.
I was replying more to Thursday's general comment about it being foolish to drive in Asia, apart from Japan and Malaysia.
I have driven in the 3 countries that I mentioned as well as Bali and Sri-Lanka, which was pretty "adventurous" and would consider doing so in Vietnam and Korea.
Yes Asian road conditions are different and you will need to alter your driving practices and show plenty of patience. I do not encourage the nervous or inexperienced to try it, but for the free willed amongst us it can be a liberating experience and should not be discouraged. Some of my fondest memmories of Asian travel have been had whilst self-driving.

Kathie

Sri Lanka?! I can't imagine. But better you than me. I also wouldn't consider VN, but perhaps that's because I spent my time there in the cities where you take your life in your hands by crossing the street!

Thursdays comment was about "much of Asia," and I'd agree. Also, remember that this is dbarks first trip to Asia. If you've been to the country you are visiting before and feel you could drive, and know the legal issues involved (especially re: liability in the case of an accident) fine. But for someone who has never been to Asia, I think it would be foolhardy to recommend self-drive.

thursdaysd

If you've driven in those places, more power to you. But to suggest that this is something that most visitors to most Asian countries should consider is a bit much. A lot of people get freaked out about road conditions in Asia when they're just being driven, never mind doing it themselves. And then there is the issue of what happens if something goes wrong.

shanek

City and country driving is very different, obviously. I feel alot less comfortable driving in Sydney or New York than rural Sri-Lanka.

dbarks, regardless of whether it is your first or tenth trip to Asia, it is more about your driving experience than Asian experience.

It will be different, that's a given. Fundamentaly though, your aim is to steer without hitting something, which doesn't differ no matter where you are. It is far more imposing watching other people do it than doing it yourself,IMHO. I trust my own ability more than some of the over-tired bus and taxi drivers in Asia.

If you feel confident in your driving ability, go for it. Certainly in Thailand. I may be labelled a fool for saying so but it is your choice, dont listen to others. Take caution, make sure you are insured and enjoy the pleasures of being totally independant in a foreign land.

Kathie

Shanek, it wasn't the city driving in Sri Lanka, it was the country driving on the twisting one and a half lane roads. "The road was mostly ok, though it was narrow and we had to share the road with buses, trucks, tractor-like vehicles (called land masters), bicycles and motor bikes, ox carts, dogs who like to sleep on the road, people often crossing without looking, and the occasional wandering cow. All vehicles feel compelled to pass the vehicle in front of them. You’ll pass a bus that is picking up passengers, and a few minutes later it will roar past you just before a curve. Drivers use their horns to communicate whether it is safe to pass, etc. Everyone cooperates to make this insane system work. "

While I understand you encouraging others to do their own thing, think about the practicalities of driving from Bangkok to Siem Reap. First of all, it isn't possible. You can't take a car across the border - and I believe you can't rent a self-drive car in Cambodia (though that may have changed - you can now rent a self-drive car in VN). So I am responding to dbarks specific question about Bangkok to Siem Reap.

Also, while I understand your belief that you are a better driver than the "over-tired bus and taxi drivers in Asia" I do believe there is no substitute for understanding the rules of the road - which are different than those in Australia or the US.