dgunbug

As many of you know, my husband and I enjoy independent travel and in the past few years have traveled to Thailand/Cambodia, Vietnam, and India, spending approximately 3 1/2 weeks in each destination. This year we intend to travel to China and are targeting the second week of October and into November, planning to spend approx. 3 1/2 weeks once again.

We know that we cannot see everything in our first trip to China and have come up with the following itinerary after reading many of the posts on this forum, various books, etc. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and thoughts on this itinerary. As before, we will travel independently although this time we may chose to only book our first hotel and wing it as we go rather than pre-booking hotels and trains. We plan to mainly travel by delux overnight trains and hope to get the two person cabins with toilets if possible. We may make some reservations several weeks prior to the trip. So...here is our rough draft so far.

Beijing -5 nights
Overnight train to Datong (23:18 - arrives 6:03) 2 nights
Overnight train to Pingyao (22:57 - 6:25) 2 nights
Overnight train to Xian (21:36-6:18) 3 nights with one day trip to Luoyang
Overnight train to Nanjing - 2 nights
Nanjing to Hangzhou - 2 nights
Shanghai - 5 nights with day trip to Suzhou and possibly Zhouzhuang

I am unsure of Nanjing, although it is a stop my husband would like to make. Any comments? Are there any places along the way that we should add into the itinerary or any we should forgo?

Thanks for all your help - June

kja

Hi, June -

I think you'll enjoy your trip very much!

It sounds like you are planning 3 days in Datong. If so, note that 2 days would probably be enough for the main sites in and around Datong (the Yungang Grottoes, Muta, and Hanging Temple and, in town, the 9 Dragon Screen and Shanhua). BTW, Huayan was under restoration when I was there; it is huge, so you might need some extra time to see it, but from what I read, at least some people have found the restoration dissatisfying.

Likewise, it sounds like you are planning 3 days in Pingyao. Again, 2 days might be enough. I found 1 day more than enough for exploring Pingyao (including its museums and walls) and part of another day for the Wang Family Courtyard; I would have had plenty of time for Shuanglin on that 2nd day, but I decided to get a head start on my next destination.

I think you'll find it interesting to see the differences between the Yungang and Longmen Grottoes.

I have't been to Nanjing, Hangzhou, or Shanghai yet.

Hope that helps!

dgunbug

Kja - thank you for your comments. My mistake. You are correct. We will be leaving on the train on the second night in both locations so we will have 2 full days in each.

kja

That should work well, at least given my understanding that you are willing to travel at a fairly fast past. Enjoy!

dgunbug

Anyone else have any comments? Please!

thursdaysd

I can't comment on Nanjing, but I am not a fan of Shanghai, and would cut back time there. I spent longer in Suzhou than you are planning, but I'm a big fan of the gardens. When I was there you could visit one of the gardens in the evening, with performances by musicians and actors. I also visited Putuoshan from Shanghai, which is a sacred island not many westerners get to (see http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/ - China on Holiday).

I'm not sure how far in advance you can buy train tickets these days - have you checked seat61.com? And do make sure that the extended National Day holiday is over before you arrive!

dgunbug

Thurdaysd - thanks for your response. We are already familiar with seat61.com, which is where we got the train time schedules. We will spend 2 days in Suzhou - we also enjoy gardens. I'm hoping there is till a night performance in the gardens - sounds like fun. We are aware of the National Day holiday and believe it is the first week of October, which is why we are planning on going the second week. We will look into that further before booking any flights.

rhkkmk

Thurs---what is it you do not like about Shanghai, as i plan on 5 nights there about the same time in october??

thursdaysd

Bob: I visited Shanghai twice, '97 and '04, and the only reason I went back was to revisit the jade in the Art Museum. It's true that Pudong had sprouted even more futuristic architecture by '04, a trend that has only accelerated. It's also true that friends of mine who lived in Shanghai in the mid '00s found a number of new art studios, another accelerating trend. They also photographed some Art Deco buildings, not a proliferating resource - in fact they are probably in danger as the Chinese enthusiastically pull down both old and new in order to build ersatz old.

However, for "shop and eat" tourists, Shanghai is probably a good destination. (You might think of Shanghai as New York to Beijing's Washington, although with fewer museums). Given the current levels of pollution I'm not sure when I'll go back to China, but I'm more likely to go back to western cities like Chengdu and Kunming if I do.

JPDeM

I think that you plan is good and relaxed.
However I doubt that you be able to travel on overnight train in the deluxe soft sleepers that you are referring to. Most of the trains that you are considering do not have such cabins which are quite rare.
Better on this website for schedules and class availability: http://www.chinatravelguide.com/ctgw...earch?method=1

dgunbug

Soft sleepers should be fine. Delux would be an added benefit. Thanks for pointing that out JPDeM.

Bob - don't fret...you should love Shanghai with all its shopping and eating! Thursdaysd went many years ago and China has changed greatly since then. Most people I talk to rave about Shanghai and wish they had more time there.

thursdaysd

dgunbug - I agree that China is changing fast. However, nothing I've read about the changes in Shanghai leads me to put it on my revisit list. But as I said, "shop and eat" tourists should like it fine. I eat but I don't shop, and I don't need to go to Shanghai to eat well in China.

shelleyk

Aside from shopping and eating, I think Shanghai is worth 2 full days and Suzhou is worth one full day as a day trip. I think the National Museum is outstanding and you could easily spend a half day there. Also, the Chinese acrobat show at night is worth seeing, IMO.

dgunbug

If we cut back on shanghai at all, what do you all recommend to add in? Anyone else out there have an opinion on shanghai?

thursdaysd

dgunbug - well, I've already suggested Putuoshan. If it were my trip I'd skip Nanjing and go further west, but if you're keeping Nanjing it's a bit more difficult. I would consider Qufu and Tai Shan in Shandong province, but I haven't been to either.

dgunbug

We thought we'd save the west, guillin, southern china and hong kong for a second trip to china.

kja

If you're looking for a place to add a night or two, 5 nights in Beijing would not have been enough for me, but that really depends on what you want to see and experience there.

And you could add a day to Xi'an if you have any interest in the "Western" tour that includes the Qian Tomb (with an impressive spirit way), the tomb of Prince Yi De (with some beautifully restored frescoes), and Famen Si (which has a small, but exquisite selection of objet d'art).

Just some ideas!

Magster2005

Hi dgunbug!

Your trip sounds wonderful -- I know you will really enjoy China. Couple comments: While I enjoyed seeing Shanghai -- National Museum and walks along the Bund and nightime in Pudong -- it does not compare with the magnificent historical sites of Beijing. I would cut at least a day from Shanghai and add to Beijing. We spent 8 nights in Beijing and could have stayed longer.

You might want to oonsider adding Chuandixia -- it's not far from Beijing. I know you like out-of-the-way places and this one has terrific appeal for me. I regret that we didn't get there: http://www.visitourchina.com/guide/c...ia_village.htm

I am also wondering about the four overnight trains. I did not do an overnight on the train so I have no personal experience (although the day train we took was orderly, clean & on time), but that sounds like alot of train overnights to me. Domestic flights are fairly reasonable, and the airports are modern & easy. Plus I loved all of our hotels in China and would hate to give up 4 hotel nights.

For flights and hotels take a look at Ctrip: http://english.ctrip.com We used it for all our flights and also for several hotel reservations -- excellent.

When you are in Xian be sure to see the Mausoleum of Western Han Emperor Liu Qi (Hanyangling): http://www.travelchinaguide.com/attr...an/hanyang.htm Honestly, it was almost as good as seeing the warriors.

Happy planning!

dgunbug

thank you all for your thoughts. Magster - I like your idea of the small village outside Beijing. We are not especially fond of shopping, although we do like to wander around interesting markets, so perhaps we should reduce the number of days in shanghai. Would love to see old china but afraid much of it does not exist today. Of course it is interesting to contrast the old with the new.

dgunbug

Magster - the allure of the overnight train is that it gives us the full day for touring and then we get to sleep and arrive early enough to start touring right away. We can usually sleep on the trains. We've found that we lose much more time when using planes as we must drive to and from airports and we must be there at least an hour in advance. Also, trains seem to have far fewer delays than planes. I'm not sure if we will book much in advance so we will have the option of booking last minute planes if we change our mind.