5 free days in China in March. Where to go?!?
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:34 PM
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5 free days in China in March. Where to go?!?
I will be in Hong Kong from March 15-19. I have 5 free days before that and have no idea which part of the country to throw myself in. I'd love to get a sense of the authentic China, or to see some beautiful nature. Originally, the plan was to go to Beijing. But, I am told it will be very cold there in March and is not worth it. Is Shanghai "authentically Chinese?" Is there a lot to see there? Any other ideas for the southern part of the country?
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:20 PM
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The 7 million or so Chinese people living in Hong Kong, and the 12 million or so people living in Shanghai will be surprised indeed to hear that they are not “authentically” Chinese...the notion that somehow one place is more “authentic” than another is hysterical to me, and of course completely misguided. Are people who live in Chicago somehow less “authentically” American than people who live in Boise? Are people in Glasgow more “authentically” Scottish than those in Edinburgh? I don’t get that. I would love someone to explain it to me in a way that I can understand.
Or course there aren’t a lot of people running around Hong Kong in short pants and straw hats (although I could tell you precisely where you can find them about 10 miles from central Hong Kong in the rice fields of the New Territories); so Hong Kong people speaking on their mobile phones on the subway may not be as different in appearance from yourself as you would want (nor nearly as photogenic nor as good to talk about at dinner parties), but I can assure you that they are indeed “authentically” Chinese. Do not let the neon signs and the skyscrapers and the McDonalds in either city fool you. You have to look beyond that. Most tourists don’t or can’t, and therefore sum up an entire population based on surface appearances and say the cities are “westernized” which just makes me get down on the floor and laugh.
If you are looking for something that has more Chinese tradition, that might be another thing. “Tradition” to me usually means history, and in both cities, that is harder to find than in a place like Beijing which is full of historical places, as it has been a capital for centuries, which neither Shanghai nor Hong Kong has been. Xian would be another place to see more of ancient China.
Beijing is a great place for 5 days, in March it will be cold; but as someone pointed out on your other post, no colder than NYC in March. It can be very windy and usually dusty, but if you are dressed for it, perfectly doable. The other good thing is that it will not be at all crowded, a nice plus. If you don’t want to go to Beijing, consider southern areas like Yunnan Province, in particular Kunming and that area where weather is almost always nice; although in March it will still be on the cool to cold side in the higher elevations, but the countryside and mountains are very beautiful. Towns like Lijiang are quite traditional (you might say “authentic”, although the entire town was recently rebuilt after and earthquake, so it’s not ancient in the traditional sense). Guilin is very lovely, esp if you get to outlying areas, could be a little bit rainy in March.
I am not a huge fan of Shanghai in any event, it is a very very large modern and quite polluted city (and you will see enough air pollution in Hong Kong, although IMO Shanghai’s is worse). They have a very good museum and some interesting modern architecture and some preserved colonial bits. However with only 5 days I would either go to Beijing or some of the other places mentioned above.
Or course there aren’t a lot of people running around Hong Kong in short pants and straw hats (although I could tell you precisely where you can find them about 10 miles from central Hong Kong in the rice fields of the New Territories); so Hong Kong people speaking on their mobile phones on the subway may not be as different in appearance from yourself as you would want (nor nearly as photogenic nor as good to talk about at dinner parties), but I can assure you that they are indeed “authentically” Chinese. Do not let the neon signs and the skyscrapers and the McDonalds in either city fool you. You have to look beyond that. Most tourists don’t or can’t, and therefore sum up an entire population based on surface appearances and say the cities are “westernized” which just makes me get down on the floor and laugh.
If you are looking for something that has more Chinese tradition, that might be another thing. “Tradition” to me usually means history, and in both cities, that is harder to find than in a place like Beijing which is full of historical places, as it has been a capital for centuries, which neither Shanghai nor Hong Kong has been. Xian would be another place to see more of ancient China.
Beijing is a great place for 5 days, in March it will be cold; but as someone pointed out on your other post, no colder than NYC in March. It can be very windy and usually dusty, but if you are dressed for it, perfectly doable. The other good thing is that it will not be at all crowded, a nice plus. If you don’t want to go to Beijing, consider southern areas like Yunnan Province, in particular Kunming and that area where weather is almost always nice; although in March it will still be on the cool to cold side in the higher elevations, but the countryside and mountains are very beautiful. Towns like Lijiang are quite traditional (you might say “authentic”, although the entire town was recently rebuilt after and earthquake, so it’s not ancient in the traditional sense). Guilin is very lovely, esp if you get to outlying areas, could be a little bit rainy in March.
I am not a huge fan of Shanghai in any event, it is a very very large modern and quite polluted city (and you will see enough air pollution in Hong Kong, although IMO Shanghai’s is worse). They have a very good museum and some interesting modern architecture and some preserved colonial bits. However with only 5 days I would either go to Beijing or some of the other places mentioned above.
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:41 PM
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YangShuo in GuangXi province should be the right place for you if you wanna see a traditional China. HangZhou, the city that close to Shanghai is also a good choice. There are some ancient small towns between HangZhou and ShangHai.
Jan 17th, 2007, 04:47 AM
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Thank you so much for everyone's suggestions! And if I came off sounding ignorant about "authenticity," it is because I totally am! I'm well traveled through Europe and South America, but this is my first time in Asia and I am, shockingly to myself, clueless. This forum is a blessing. Thanks again!
Jan 17th, 2007, 04:49 AM
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Cicerone - where ARE these rice fields near Hong Kong that you refer to? Also, any suggestions that are off the beaten path around Hong Kong would be greately appreciated! For instance, are there any hikes with beautiful scenery that are a worthwhile daytrip?
Jan 17th, 2007, 05:13 AM
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Cicerone - I agree with you about the use of "authentic", but when I say a given Chinese city feels "Western" I am precisely referring to appearances. Replacing old-style buildings with glass and concrete high rises does produce a Western feel for me - Wangfujing Dajie in Beijing now feels a lot like Oxford Street, which it didn't the first time I was there, in 1997. Not to mention all the McDs, KFCs and Starbucks. That doesn't mean I think the people are in some way less Chinese.
Jan 17th, 2007, 07:41 AM
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I am traveling with "thelika" (who posted above) and appreciate all the feedback we are getting. Thank you for the suggestion of going to the Yunnan Province. If we do this, we would fly into Kunming and I was wondering what we have enough time to do in 4 days. Is that enough time to make our way to Lijiang and Dali or should we stay in the area of Kunming? From what I understand, Kunming to Lijiang is a long train or a flight. Will that be too much running around for a short period? If we decide to stay in and around Kunming the whole time, is there enough to do to occupy us? Does anyone have a possible itinerary? Thank you all in advance.
Jan 17th, 2007, 08:14 AM
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swinggal - also take a look at http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34929779 where there is a discussion of Yunnan.
Jan 17th, 2007, 10:12 AM
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Kunming has become a large non-descriptive city. I wouldn't stay there for 4 days.
There are frequent flights between Kunming and Dali and Lijiang. There's also overnight trains between Kunming and Dali. Lijiang has no train service.
There are frequent flights between Kunming and Dali and Lijiang. There's also overnight trains between Kunming and Dali. Lijiang has no train service.
Jan 17th, 2007, 05:41 PM
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Thelika, for suggestions on Hong KOng, please search this board for my very long list of reccos called “Cicerone’s Reccos for What the Locals Do for Fun in Hong Kong (Hint: We DON’T Go to those Awful Night Markets....)” this should give you some ideas for what to do, including a list of walks and some sources for more walks. For another of my favourite very easy walks on Hong Kong Island, see my posting called “Cicerone’s Favourite Hong Kong Walks II: Paradise Found! From Happy Valley to Stanley in High Heels! (Almost) The Tsz Lo Lan Shan Path”
For the rice paddies, my suggestion would be to go the area around the town of Fanling in the New Territories, and then get out on foot to see some of the villages outside the town. This is a very pretty rural area. There are several ways to do this. One is to take the KCR Railway to Fanling and hop a #78K bus out along Sha Tau Kok Road and just get out at some point along the road once you leave the town of Fanling and hit rural areas, which will be after a mile or so. There are many small villages along this road and down the side roads here. (At some point after 5-6 miles, the bus driver will make you get off, as the bus goes into a restricted zone on the border with the PRC and only people with permits are allowed in). You could also do a historical walking tour of the walled villages and clan halls of Fanling, this is quite an interesting self-guided tour, take a look at http://www.hktrampers.com/FactFile/L...uHeritageTrail for info and maps. It takes under 2 hours. The area before San Wai village in particular, toward the end of the walk, is in an area of rice paddies.
Finally, you could do a walk in the area like Stage 10 of the Wilson Trail, a fairly challenging but beautiful walk of 2-3 hours which at the end will take you through villages and rice paddy areas north east of Fanling. To get to this walk you would take the MTR to either – or Fanling and then a bus, minibus or taxi to the start of the walk. You can start the walk at either Pat Sin Leng or Luk Keng; I like to start it at Pat Sin Leng and end it at Luk Keng, where there is a little restaurant and smaller villages like Nam Chung to wander around and a pretty marsh area with egrets and other birds. If you do this, take the KCR to the – station, and then a bus, at the end of the walk, take a bus or minibus to the Fanling KCR station (or walk out to – road and get the # bus back along – which runs to the Fanling station), to go back into Hong Kong. (Please consult a guidebook or a website (see my other posts) for the bus numbers to access this walk, I usually drive so am not completely sure, I could look at my walking books if you are interested, they usually have public transport info.)
My recollection also is that if you go to the Mai Po Marshes area (there is a park here and you can also bicycle in the area) you will also find rice paddies in the area. I have not been there in some years and I know that there has been some development in the area, but I believe parts are still very rural. Get a guidebook or ask people in Hong Kong at the wedding for their views on this.
I mean to be pedantic on the “authentic” because what is happening in cities like Hong Kong and Shanghai is that the Chinese there are becoming the Chinese of the 21st century, as “authentically” Chinese as the Chinese of the 18th who bound the feet of their women and wore their hair in queues (something they were forced to do by their Manchu conquerors by the way, not at all authentically Chinese). You have to see the glass towers and the McDonalds, and then see how the Chinese (and other Asian cultures) have adapted them, in order to understand the entire culture today. For example, there is no 4th, 14th, 44th, etc floor in any of these towers because the number “4” sounds like the word “death” in most Chinese dialects. In the McDonalds, they serve rice cake burgers with chillies...IMO this one of the more interesting aspects of how people adapt outside influences. Also, using another culture’s inventions does not mean you become part of that culture.. I cook in a wok and eat with chopsticks, but that in no way makes me Chinese.
For the rice paddies, my suggestion would be to go the area around the town of Fanling in the New Territories, and then get out on foot to see some of the villages outside the town. This is a very pretty rural area. There are several ways to do this. One is to take the KCR Railway to Fanling and hop a #78K bus out along Sha Tau Kok Road and just get out at some point along the road once you leave the town of Fanling and hit rural areas, which will be after a mile or so. There are many small villages along this road and down the side roads here. (At some point after 5-6 miles, the bus driver will make you get off, as the bus goes into a restricted zone on the border with the PRC and only people with permits are allowed in). You could also do a historical walking tour of the walled villages and clan halls of Fanling, this is quite an interesting self-guided tour, take a look at http://www.hktrampers.com/FactFile/L...uHeritageTrail for info and maps. It takes under 2 hours. The area before San Wai village in particular, toward the end of the walk, is in an area of rice paddies.
Finally, you could do a walk in the area like Stage 10 of the Wilson Trail, a fairly challenging but beautiful walk of 2-3 hours which at the end will take you through villages and rice paddy areas north east of Fanling. To get to this walk you would take the MTR to either – or Fanling and then a bus, minibus or taxi to the start of the walk. You can start the walk at either Pat Sin Leng or Luk Keng; I like to start it at Pat Sin Leng and end it at Luk Keng, where there is a little restaurant and smaller villages like Nam Chung to wander around and a pretty marsh area with egrets and other birds. If you do this, take the KCR to the – station, and then a bus, at the end of the walk, take a bus or minibus to the Fanling KCR station (or walk out to – road and get the # bus back along – which runs to the Fanling station), to go back into Hong Kong. (Please consult a guidebook or a website (see my other posts) for the bus numbers to access this walk, I usually drive so am not completely sure, I could look at my walking books if you are interested, they usually have public transport info.)
My recollection also is that if you go to the Mai Po Marshes area (there is a park here and you can also bicycle in the area) you will also find rice paddies in the area. I have not been there in some years and I know that there has been some development in the area, but I believe parts are still very rural. Get a guidebook or ask people in Hong Kong at the wedding for their views on this.
I mean to be pedantic on the “authentic” because what is happening in cities like Hong Kong and Shanghai is that the Chinese there are becoming the Chinese of the 21st century, as “authentically” Chinese as the Chinese of the 18th who bound the feet of their women and wore their hair in queues (something they were forced to do by their Manchu conquerors by the way, not at all authentically Chinese). You have to see the glass towers and the McDonalds, and then see how the Chinese (and other Asian cultures) have adapted them, in order to understand the entire culture today. For example, there is no 4th, 14th, 44th, etc floor in any of these towers because the number “4” sounds like the word “death” in most Chinese dialects. In the McDonalds, they serve rice cake burgers with chillies...IMO this one of the more interesting aspects of how people adapt outside influences. Also, using another culture’s inventions does not mean you become part of that culture.. I cook in a wok and eat with chopsticks, but that in no way makes me Chinese.
Jan 17th, 2007, 05:48 PM
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Sorry, I posted before I finished looking at the KCR map. If you want to do the Wilson Stage 10 walk, take the KCR East Rail to eiter Fanling or Tai Wo, and then a bus, taxi or minibus to the start of the walk. I prefer to go to Tai Wo and start the walk from the Pat Sin Leng end.
Jan 17th, 2007, 06:13 PM
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Nice recommendations. I have not done the Pat Sin Leng walk, but it's fairly strenuous. And anywhere you hike in Hong Kong, make sure you bring plenty of drinking water because of the high temperature.
Anyways, the bus to Pat Sin Leng from Tai Wo KCR is 75K. The green minibus is 20C. Both are signed to Tai Mei Tuk, where one may still be able to rent a bicycle to ride along the main dam of the Plover Cove Reservoir, or along the main road up to the Bride's Pool.
Anyways, the bus to Pat Sin Leng from Tai Wo KCR is 75K. The green minibus is 20C. Both are signed to Tai Mei Tuk, where one may still be able to rent a bicycle to ride along the main dam of the Plover Cove Reservoir, or along the main road up to the Bride's Pool.
Jan 17th, 2007, 06:24 PM
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the OP's trip is in March and March won't be very warm, although carrying water is always a good idea. It's in the low 60s F today. Acutally cold at night. A big difference from the summer months.
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:15 AM
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Cicerone or anyone else who knows:
My husband and I are choosing between 2 tours of Japan/China. The biggest difference is that one tour includes Osaka and a Victoria 4-day cruise on the Yangtze. The other tour uses deluxe hotels instead of just first class, and includes Guilin and Hong Kong, but not Osaka or the Yangtze cruise.
We are basically making the decision based on balancing the Yangtze cruise verse Guilin/Hong Kong. We are nervous 4 days on the river will get boring, and the entertainment sounds sort of cheesy (fashion show, singing, etc). However, everything we have found on-line has said that the river cruise is beautiful, fantastic, etc. We have also heard that by 2010, the cruise might lose its charm as the landscape will be overflowed and towns moved (so less to see of "traditional" China) so we if we don't do it now, we might lose the opportunity forever.
That said, most of the reviews we have found were written before the water rose from the Three Gorges Dam, before people were relocated, and I think were by older people. We are looking for a recent perspective from someone in our age bracket (late 20s, early 30s).
We will be going in April.
Thanks in advance!
My husband and I are choosing between 2 tours of Japan/China. The biggest difference is that one tour includes Osaka and a Victoria 4-day cruise on the Yangtze. The other tour uses deluxe hotels instead of just first class, and includes Guilin and Hong Kong, but not Osaka or the Yangtze cruise.
We are basically making the decision based on balancing the Yangtze cruise verse Guilin/Hong Kong. We are nervous 4 days on the river will get boring, and the entertainment sounds sort of cheesy (fashion show, singing, etc). However, everything we have found on-line has said that the river cruise is beautiful, fantastic, etc. We have also heard that by 2010, the cruise might lose its charm as the landscape will be overflowed and towns moved (so less to see of "traditional" China) so we if we don't do it now, we might lose the opportunity forever.
That said, most of the reviews we have found were written before the water rose from the Three Gorges Dam, before people were relocated, and I think were by older people. We are looking for a recent perspective from someone in our age bracket (late 20s, early 30s).
We will be going in April.
Thanks in advance!
Jan 18th, 2007, 04:57 PM
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IMO the Yangtze tour is way, way over hyped and oversold by tours, and now that the dams are basically completed and the pollution in that area of China is so bad, I don’t think it is worth doing at all. (Pollution in much of China is a very big problem, air pollution esp) I did it many years ago; and while the gorges were impressive, the pollution even then was somewhat of an issue, and overall I did not think the experience was much to tell the truth. The boats were nothing at all either, rather old wooden tubs. I think you would find the age group to be more like your grandparents as well (I went with my parents who were in their early 60s at the time, many people were older.) Now that many of the villages have been relocated and the water has risen, I think even some of the beauty has been lost, beauty that could transcend the pollution but may no longer be able to. There are people on this board who have done this trip in the last year or two, they have different views, so see what they have to say.
I also personally think Hong Kong is very interesting, and I really like the Guilin area, provided you get outside the immediate vicinity.
You really don’t need to do a tour in any event, especially at your age (no health or mobility problems I assume) you could easily do this trip on you own. While language is a bit of an issue in Japan (really none in China IMO), the basic tourist route is very easy to get around on your own, I have done it by myself at times. Hopefully KimJapan, a regular poster who lives in Japan will weigh in on this, but most people on this board are sort of anti-tour. I think Osaka would be worth doing, but if you are going to Kyoto, than that is probably as good; I would not do a “tour” to Japan that only included Tokyo, a waste of a trip IMO. For China, rather than the Yangtze, if you want to see a beautiful area, go to Yunnan Province.
FYI, “first class” and “deluxe” hotels have very little meaning in China, a hotel can basically almost buy a rating (they do have some meaning in Japan), you might want to list specific hotels and see if people have comments.
I also personally think Hong Kong is very interesting, and I really like the Guilin area, provided you get outside the immediate vicinity.
You really don’t need to do a tour in any event, especially at your age (no health or mobility problems I assume) you could easily do this trip on you own. While language is a bit of an issue in Japan (really none in China IMO), the basic tourist route is very easy to get around on your own, I have done it by myself at times. Hopefully KimJapan, a regular poster who lives in Japan will weigh in on this, but most people on this board are sort of anti-tour. I think Osaka would be worth doing, but if you are going to Kyoto, than that is probably as good; I would not do a “tour” to Japan that only included Tokyo, a waste of a trip IMO. For China, rather than the Yangtze, if you want to see a beautiful area, go to Yunnan Province.
FYI, “first class” and “deluxe” hotels have very little meaning in China, a hotel can basically almost buy a rating (they do have some meaning in Japan), you might want to list specific hotels and see if people have comments.
