Safari Game Drives & Conservancy/Park Fees

Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:00 PM
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Safari Game Drives & Conservancy/Park Fees

We are considering the following African Safari for next summer and would like feedback re: game drives and conservancy-park fees.

4 nights Serian Original or Serian Ngare (both located in Mara North Conservancy)
2 nights Serian Nkorombo (Mara National Reserve) or Serian Serengeti Mobile Lamai (Serengeti National Park)

Our specific questions are below:

If staying at in Mara North Conservancy at either Serian Original or Serian Ngare, do the daily game drives remain in the Mara North Conservancy or will we find ourselves spending daily time in the Mara National Reserve?

Likewise, if staying at Serian Nkoromobo in Mara National Reserve, do game drives often venture into the Mara North Conservancy?

Ideally, we would like to avoid unnecessarily paying dual daily park or conservancy fees. At the same time, we do not want to significantly limit our daily opportunity for game/landscape photography.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 04:31 AM
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I just stayed in Mara North but with another camp. If you're staying in the conservancy, the conservancy fee is already included in the price of your stay at the camp. If you decide to do a day trip into the Reserve, that may also be included in your cost already (mine included 1 day trip into the Reserve for every 3 days I was staying in Mara North). I've not known game drives to just wander randomly into the Reserve or Reserve game drives to wander into the conservancies, I don't actually think that's allowed, but maybe because all three camps are Serian, there's a free pass allowed. I would check with either Serian directly or your safari planner to see what is included in your package with them.

What I can tell you is that Mara North is exceptionally good for game, particularly big cats. We were having such exceptional sightings in February that we didn't even bother with the Reserve. (For background, this was my third time in the Mara, and all of my conservancy game viewing has been far, far better than anything I saw in the Reserve!) Serian is also well-known for excellent guiding and location, it was actually my "other" choice when I was planning my last safari. It gets extremely high marks from veteran safari-goers I know, so the combination of location and guiding should offer you an excellent experience.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 06:00 PM
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Hi amyb!

Thank you so much for your insight!

Clearly, this is our first safari and negotiating camp rates/park fees appears to be the "wild west". Like most, we are not inclined to pay unnecessary fees.

Below is a synopsis of the 2 specific concerns re: park fees:

1. Serian is quoting us a pp per night camp rate + $145 pp per night Mara Reserve Park fee.
- We are willing to restrict our game drives to Mara North Conservancy.
- In return, we want Serian to drop the $145 pp per night Mara Reserve Park fee (for 2 pp over 4 nights = $1K+).
- Serian advertises private safari vehicle, game drives at guest's discretion.
Q: Is it customary for camps to accommodate such guest requested restrictions? Is it customary for guests to pay Mara Reserve park fees on the day they visit the Mara Reserve park?

2. Serian is also quoting pp per night camp rate + $130 pp per night Serengeti Park fee (if we stay at Serian Lamai).
- The Serengeti National Park official website (www.serengeti.org) has published park fees of $25 pp per day + $30 per vehicle per day.
- For us, that would be a total of $80 per day.
Q: Any ideas regarding the HUGE discrepancy in Serengeti park fees quoted by Serian?

Needless to say, these discrepancies are not helping to create a trusting relationship with Serian.

Thoughts?

Thank you!
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Old May 25th, 2017, 05:12 AM
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I cannot say with 100% certainty but I would think if you're staying in their Mara North camp and tell them you only want to do game drives in Mara North, then you can ask them to drop the Reserve fee. And yes, having a guaranteed private vehicle entitles you to direct the course of your game-viewing, which is another huge plus to Serian. But if you stay in their Reserve camp, then you'd have to pay the Reserve fee. Same goes for staying in their Serengeti camp, if it's in the Serengeti National Park, you'd have to pay that. I can't speak to the discrepancy in the fees, that's something you should bring up to them. I highly, highly doubt you're being scammed, they are far too well respected by much more experienced safari-goers than I am for me to think this is a shady dealing. I'm also not certain, but there may be an upcharge for transporting you across the TZ/Kenya border. I've never done that but it's something that might be the reason for the increased fee. You can certainly ask for an itemization.

Are you working with Serian directly or going through a safari planner? It is hard enough for me doing it after 4 times, I would never have attempted to book my first safari on my own. Africa Travel Resource or Gamewatchers would be able to handle all this for you and give you a complete itemization/explanation of the charges, and maybe even get you a better rate in some cases. It wouldn't hurt to reach out to them and tell them want you want and see what they come up with. They also won't forget details obvious to them but not obvious to a first time safari-goer. (like does the Serian offer include flights from Nairobi or Arusha? what's the transport between Kenya and Tanzania? do you have arrival day accommodations in either Nairobi or Arusha, because coming in late from the US via Europe -- if that's where you're coming from -- you will not be able to get to the reserves/conservancies until the next day; flights do not go out to the reserves after about 3 p.m.)
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Old May 25th, 2017, 12:11 PM
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Hi Amyb

I am working directly with Serian and they replied to my inquiry re: the daily Reserve fee. Below is the explanation I received from Serian owner Alex Walker.

"I am afraid you will be disappointed with regards the park/conservation fees, they are non negotiable and paid directly to the parks, landowners and park management. They are as follows;

Masai Mara Reserve and Conservancy 145 usd - this includes the car, driver and tracker, park fee, and camping fee, all rolled into one. In fact it actually costs us in the region of 185 usd under the new arrangement with both parks and the private conservancies where we have to guarantee bed nights to the value of 300,000 usd per year. We took it out of the accommodation fee as agents were adding a further 20% on top of our rates, making it crazy expensive."

Funny thing is that I have identified at least 4 other camps located in Mara North that have the following included in their per night camp fee:

1 game drive in Mara Reserve over 3+ night stay
All daily MNC fees included

I don't really get Serian's pricing strategy. Back in Nov, ATR quoted me the same re Mara Reserve fees. Not sure why ATR/Serian feels the need to quote as such when all of their competitors don't do that. Maybe they want to drive me away - I realize I can be pesky when it comes to these details.

At the same time, it's my money and "I like to pay for what I actually use. I do not like to pay for what I might use and I absolutely do not like to pay for something that I will not or, did not, use."

I just sent Alex a follow up email asking for more info to ensure an apples to apples comparison between Serian and other MNC camps:

"What specific wildlife and landscapes will I miss by focusing my game drives in MNC?"

"What specific restrictions exist on game drives in MNC that would impede our ability to have a superior wildlife viewing experience or prohibit access to classic african landscapes?"

It will be interesting to see Alex's response. If there is a reason why the Mara Reserve is so much better than MNC, I have yet to hear it. Otherwise, I will begin looking into other MNC camps such as Kicheche Bush, Saruni Mara, and Olare Mara Kempinski for competitive, apples to apples quotes.

In regards to your suggestions re: NBO layover before and after safari, we are prepared and will be staying at Fairmont Norfolk for 1 night on way into Kenya and 2 nights on way out of Kenya. We want to kick around NBO for 2 days - visit Sheldrick's Elephant & Rhino Orphanage, Giraffe Manor, and Karen Blixen's original home at foot of Ngong Hills.

How many nights would you recommend in MNC? We are toying with 4-6 nights total and prefer to stay at a single camp. Were interested in 2 camps but really just want to settle into a single camp for the duration and max out the experience the camp has to offer.

Thank you for speaking with me and lending me your "ear" and your insight/experience with safari planning!

Have a great day and kindly let me know your thoughts!
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Old May 25th, 2017, 12:26 PM
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We have just come back from Kenya and stayed at Serian Ngare. It was our favorite location.

However, if you are scared of heights, or cannot walk across a rope bridge (view the website), then stay at Serian original.

Serian Ngare was amazing - we loved the luxury of the tents, how secluded they were, the service was impeccable. It was a special place. We were there 2 nights and wished we had made it 3 nights.
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Old May 25th, 2017, 05:26 PM
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Dmiclat, it occurred to me running on the treadmill tonight that maybe the fee amount you were quoted was for both the Reserve and the Conservancy, turns out that seems to be the case.

There are no guarantees with wildlife to be sure, but I can tell you that in my four safaris, the sightings have been far, far superior in the conservancies than they've been in either Serengeti NP or the Mara Reserve. Again, that's anecdotal and purely my experience. And as I said, we were entitled to (and had paid for as part of our package) 2 trips into the Mara Reserve as part of our 6 nights there, and didn't take them up on it. I've stayed in four Mara conservancies now and all of them were so much better in terms of both quality and quantity of sightings.

If you haven't yet, check out Safaritalk.net. You can go to the trip report forum there and search for Serian. You can read day by day trip reports (more fulsome reporting than what you find here) with photos from many of the people who frequent the camp, and there are several who are repeat customers.

I spent 6 nights at Offbeat Mara in February. I loved hunkering down for that long rather than packing up and moving, which I've done before. I liked getting to know the area and the resident lion prides and leopards as well as spending 5 of our days tracking a mother cheetah and two cubs who hadn't eaten for nearly a week...if we'd had to leave before we saw her catch something, I'd have been disappointed! No matter what you do, I'd not recommend anything less than 2 nights. Packing up and moving eats into either a morning or afternoon game drive, and those are too precious to me to waste moving. You may also want to expand your search into Olare Motorogi Conservancy too, as it's also ripe with big cats. I had a fabulous first safari in Kenya there at Porini Lion. Kicheche also has a camp there, as well as Asilia, I think. You would book those through Gamewatchers, which owns the Porini camps, but they could also get you quotes or book you into other non-Porini camps in Kenya or Tanzania. Something to keep in mind.

For your time in Nairobi, I would try to fit in time at Nairobi National Park (which is where Sheldricks is). I had the single best leopard encounter there, it was a massive male (seldom see males) just lounging on a tree branch right over the road. Spectacular. I also saw 12 rhinos on one drive...rhinos are very hard to see in the Mara, so if you have your heart set on the Big Five, it's very rare that that will happen in the Mara. The other four, yes, but not usually rhino. Be sure to adopt an elephant orphan before you go and arrange to go to the free foster parent visit at 5 p.m. At Sheldricks. I think it's far better than the public visit in the morning. You're there as the babies come in from a day out in the park and as they get tucked into their enclosures for the night. You can talk to their keepers and pat them if they come close enough to the doors. I've done it twice and it's life changing being that close.

In answer to your other question, I can't see that you'd miss anything landscape-wise by not going to both the Reserve and Conservancy. You could blindfold me and drop in one or the other and without a campsite as a reference point, I'd have a tough time telling you where I am. It's all contiguous land, just with an imaginary border that differentiates private from public land and two different entry fees. If you were to go to Amboseli or Laikipia, hundreds of miles away, you'd certainly see a difference but not in the area that is the Mara region.

Hope this helps!
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Old May 25th, 2017, 07:46 PM
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Greetings, Dmiclat.

Understand that you want to stay in one camp 4-6 nights. As you know from your research, and AmyB's replies, most of the conservancy camps will, for every 3 days/ nights in a camp, you have the choice of one day-visit into the Mara Reserve .No need to change camps! You leave and return to your home base.

I'm guessing this is not the only travel forum you're checking about Africa. (I hope not because unfortunately, this one gets little "traffic." ) You'll find frequent discussions about conservancies vs the reserve on other forums.

You will be there in summer, which means, depending on your month, and Mother Nature's timing, you may encounter the astonishing sights of the great migration (August) and possibly, one of the animals' river crossings, the latter not a one-time event---over the summer, they cross back and forth across the Mara River. (In June 2014, they went back and forth over several consecuitive days!) There are a few most-used crossing points along the river. For me, this sight was the most moving, emotional, experience I've had in three safari trips to Kenya. And--unless I am wrong--although there are camps along small rivers?tributaries in the conservancies, i don't think any are large herd crossing points.

Last time in Kenya, we stayed in several camps, including Porini Lion. In addition to great sightings nearby within its conservancy, we hadone day for the Mara Reserve, where we had a day full of sightings, including our driver and spotter making a mad dash to one of the Mara River crossing points.

In summary--you can have the best of both worlds--settle in at one place for 4-6 days, and make at least one of those a day to get into the Mara itself as well.

If you're not sold on a particular company, the good thing is, there are many excellent companies in the Mara.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 07:53 AM
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Good afternoon Amyb and CaliNurse

Thank you for all of your guidance! Very much appreciated and we have decided to stay at a single camp in the Mara for 5-6 nights. We are in process of receiving final quotes directly from each of the camps (Serian Original, Offbeat Mara, Saruni Mara, Kicheche Bush, Kicheche Mara) and will make a final decision by early June.

Amyb - While we did not mention your name, we did engage Offbeat Mara and said a friend recommended we consider them for our safari. Thus far the experience has been excellent with Peter quickly answering our detailed questions and turning around a quote within 24 hours. BTW, he sends his regards to "our friend" Do you have any advice re: a specific guide/tracker/spotter that we should request or re: camp views, facilities, and food quality? Comparable to Serian Original in camp quality?

CaliNurse - Super advice re: river crossings! We do want 1 or 2 trips into the reserve to watch a crossing. Our tentative dates are June 15-21 or slightly later (still in June).

Amyb and CaliNurse - Please let us know of any detailed insights you have into either Saruni Mara or Kicheche Bush or Kicheche Mara (photography safari support, camp facilities/views/food quality, guiding/tracking quality, etc...). Anyone specific at either of these camps we should contact to work thru the quote process?

Thank you both for your time and insights!
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:05 AM
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I've stayed at Kicheche Bush and Kicheche Mara. In both cases I booked directly through Kicheche, but you may get a better quote from a TO if doing a combo of camps from different companies (e.g, staying someplace in Lewa, then flying to Mara to stay at a Kicheche camp, etc.).

I liked both camps and the guiding is excellent at both. They will accommodate photographers--in fact one of the owners is a photographer and sometimes Kicheche Bush is fully booked with one of his photography groups--but you would probably want to book a private vehicle.

My visit to Kicheche Bush was in June, I was solo and luck of the draw got a private vehicle the whole time I was there. so I sort of like Bush Camp best. James (tall James) at Bush Camp is a great guide, a great person...!

I believe Serian is a higher spec of camp/more exclusive. Kicheche Mara Camop had quite a few honeymooners from the UK staying when I was there. Lovely, fun, respectful young people, all of them, but I believe most were first-time safari-goers if that makes any difference to you. It didn't to me.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:10 AM
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p.s. Yes, I would want to go into the Triangle during a visit to the Mara. And I would and have paid to do so. These trips as a whole are very expensive, so once there I want to experience the most variety, the most diversity of flora and fauna I can, and an extra $150 here or there isn't going to kill me. I'd try to economize elsewhere (where I stay in Nairobi, etc.).

Have a wonderful safari!
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Old May 26th, 2017, 03:58 PM
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Dmiclat, the Kicheche name is very well respected in the Mara (as is Porini, Serian, Asilia, Offbeat) so you can't go wrong there.

I worked with Peter at Offbeat as well and I was amazed by how responsive he was, especially considering an 8 hour time difference between us. It really could not have been easier working with him, and he handled everything, from our landing in Nairobi to our departure two weeks later. If you do book with them, David and Kappen are the guide/driver combo you want. I've had lots of excellent guides over four safaris and they are by far the best. I really feel like Kappen made sightings happen on demand, he just seemed to conjure them up when we wanted them. It just seemed too easy that we saw so much without working for it. The camp is so small that any tent is fine, although ours (#4) was known for having leopard sleep on the porch! The food is excellent, but I've found that in all the camps I've stayed at in the Mara (Porini and Asilia/Encounter before Offbeat).

Overall though, while I haven't stayed in Kicheche or Saruni, I know they are very well respected by people whose opinions I trust. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those in Mara North or Olare Motorogi. If I were to return to the Mara tomorrow, it'd be to one of those two conservancies, no doubt whatsoever.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:26 AM
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Good morning Amyb

Again, thank you for the recommendations. Offbeat is in the lead at the moment, followed by Kicheche Mara, then Kicheche Bush, Saruni Mara.

Do you know if it is possible to reserve a private vehicle for only 1-2 days of our stay? And is it possible to request a private vehicle with min 24hrs notice? Just trying to understand their ability to provide flexible services/amenities which may help us to apply our costs where/when we get the greatest value.

Does that make sense and is it a reasonable expectation of safari camps/operators?

Thank you AGAIN!
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Old May 27th, 2017, 12:59 PM
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I do not know the private vehicle policy for Offbeat. My friend Kim and I ended up with our own vehicle without having to request or pay extra for it, but that was in February and not June, which is higher season and more busy. (You know Serian gives you your own vehicle as part of the price though, right? Did Alex ever get back to you with your other questions?) I would think that given that it's likely more busy in June, you'd want to make your request for a private vehicle now rather than wait until 24 hours out. I would also imagine that they don't have guides just sitting around if they're not out guiding, so they'd likely have to plan to have them there for you and not scramble at the last minute. But I'd ask Peter in your next exchange with him. Im sure he'd have an honest answer for you.

I hope Offbeat works out for you. Today I've been scheming to book a return next year, possibly combining it with Samburu, where I've never been. I thought I'd beat the safari bug, but I feel it coming on strong all of a sudden!! AGAIN! Be warned, it becomes a sickness!
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Old May 28th, 2017, 04:26 AM
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LOL...not a bad sickness to have! Yes re: Serian's private 4x4 vehicle.

We've done a service and cost comparison amongst Offbeat, Kicheche, Olare Mara Kempinski, Elephant Pepper, Karen Blixen, Mara Expedition, Saruni Mara, and Richard's River Camp. In the beginning, we looked at the Asilia camps but they are pretty high end.

The one thing we haven't figured out is "the reason for the cost variance between camp?" Is it the finer furnishings of some camps?

Apparently, all of the camps we are considering have excellent reputations for game drive, food quality, and comfortable bedding/tent (some basic furniture, some with more "Out of Africa" luxurious furnishings - it would be nice to have a large tent stocked with antiques and fine textiles, but we ask ourselves "how much time do you spend in camp and do those fine furnishings really impact the comfort and quality of our camp time?"

A primary consideration (after food and bed quality) is camp location and views from tent. Ideally, and if all else were equal, we would select the camp that has an elevated location. Our tent would be elevated on raised decking with a large veranda that looks out onto the vast open plains. Unfortunately, many of the camps are located in valley's or on riverbanks/water holes that give ready viewing access to hippo pods. While I'm sure we will want to experience the hippos, we really want to use our camp time to decompress and experience the tranquility of the African plains with a "wide-angle landscape view" vs "a hippo family portrait".

Based upon our research, Saruni Mara appears to meet that criteria, followed by maybe Elephant Pepper. After that, it's difficult to discern between the camps based upon what we've read thus far. Not even sure about Kicheche or Serian.

Do you know of any articles/web resources that provide detailed review the camp location/views (we've already reviewed each website's photo galleries and traveler photos on trip advisor) or should we simply ask each camp if they can supply photos of the views from each tent? I guess that would solve our dilemma - duh.

Thoughts?
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Old May 28th, 2017, 07:30 AM
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Be careful not to overthink this. The camps I know of that have the stunning views you are looking for are like Richard Branson's (which also has soaking tubs and fine china for dinner, which is certainly reflected in the price). As you said, you're not in camp for long and when you're there for the longest time, it's dark. The only places I've ever stayed with "a view" so to speak was Tawi Lodge in Amboseli, where I could see Mt. Kilimanjaro from my deck and we had a private watering hole off the dining tent; and Emakoko in Nairobi, which was built into the side of a hill. But both are in a class above what you're considering.

You may want to look at Trip Advisor reviews for photos or Africa Travel Resource, which usually has some sort of photo of the camp with tents from a distance. I looked at Saruni Mara and compared it to camps I know, and that appears to be built into the side of a hill, which is getting you the view. But if you read ATR's description of it (which are pretty blatant and frank with criticism) they don't often recommend it due to a peripheral location. The same can be said for Elephant Pepper. They seem to think you can do better for far less money, and that its position isn't the greatest either.

If I were to prioritize the qualities I look for it'd be:
1) Reputation for guiding - Safaritalk is priceless for this info alone. Guides make or break your experience. I've had some phenomenal ones and two I've had to fire, quite literally, to save my safari.
2) Location -- how close to what I want to see, known resident prides of cats, etc. Offbeat and Porini both have prides of lions living right outside the camp, both have resident leopards who have consistently been spotted within minutes of camp. If there's nothing known to be nearby reliably, how much of a drive to get to it?
3) Food/accommodations -- do you want ensuite bathroom, how rustic can you take your tent? Does it accommodate dietary concerns? How good is the food?
4) Price -- for most this is once in a lifetime so I'd pay every last penny of what I can afford to get 1-3 above but I don't want to overpay either.
5) Other activities -- some rank this higher, like cultural visits, horseback riding, etc. I go to see animals and now that I've done my one village visit, I'm happy to just keep seeing animals.

View doesn't even hit my radar, but I've been there and know what it's all about so it's understandable that you have the Out of Africa wide-angle shot in mind. I just don't think there are many places you're going to get that from your tent. Most camps set up in stands of trees for protection from the elements or near watering holes/rivers to increase the chances of passing wildlife. Even when I had a view of Mt. Kili, I just noted it in passing, I didn't sit there and stare at it. I did however, love having elephants, giraffe, wildebeest and zebra at our watering hole 50 yards off my dinner table.

Is there a reason you're not considering Porini? Porini Lion in particular has a reputation for outstanding guiding and location, as well as resident wildlife. I'd say Jackson there ranks almost as high as David and Kappen at Offbeat. I also think Porini Lion fits your budget. I'd say accommodation and food are on par with Offbeat. I'd only consider Porini Lion though, I don't think Porini Mara maintains the same quality and it's further off from the Reserve if you're going to day trip in.

I think your questions are certainly valid but this is where a good safari planner would be helpful for a first-time safari goer. ATR could throw a few itineraries together for you in a jiffy and answer all sorts of questions (especially related to value) as they have direct knowledge of all the camps, whereas we here only know a few. I know the instinct is to do it yourself like you would Paris or Rome, but this is an altogether different ballgame. Based on the path of your planning so far, I really think a professional could help you immensely. Gamewatchers and/or ATR would be where I'd go next for help.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:59 AM
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Number of tents is something to consider. I prefer smaller camps.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:36 AM
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You guys are the best...I will check into Piorini Lion. Thus far, we've pretty much settled on Offbeat with Kicheche Mara a solid second. We will compare both of those vs Piorini Lion and see where we stand. Almost finished - thanks to you guys!
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Old May 28th, 2017, 12:53 PM
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Having happily stayed there, I agree Porini Lion is worth your research! However,r I can't compare to other camps in the area. They also use the team approach: Each truck has both e a driver and a spotter. I dont think this is the case with all camps.

Know that drivers/guides in a conservancy, or in the reserve, communicate with other teams. Despite it being a conservancy, if one safari guide/spotter finds a special sighting, they will communicate it to others in the area. You might have the particular animal/sighting to yourselves for a short while, but Idid not find we were completely "alone" for long . Even if just the trucks from one camp (and the conservancies have many camps--Mara North has the most) there is more than one truck in each camp, and any nearby will gather together.

Views: There are great hilltop views from lodgings, in the Mara Reserve in the Triangle area .For example, views from Mara Serena Lodge (which is large and a hotel, not tented) are fantastic. I've stayed there and loved the views,but far preferred being in a small tented camp without the same stunning views. It depends what "ticks" the boxes of your requirements. For upscale,and view, smaller, there 's Mara Angama.--very expensive --in the Mara Triangle. My point is, views as you described wanting, from the actual lodging, were not a priority. Otoh, IF you chose Porini Lion, i (or Amy, etc) could tell you which tent with the best location, in my opinion.

Porin i Lion, and many other conservancy camps, are situated along "rivers" (more like streams, depending on rain levels!). You may see hippos during the day, and hear them at night!

Note that all the camps will include evening sundowners while on safari, and the guides pick lovely spots for those, as well as your outdoors lunches.

I too wondered if it was worth the extra price for the two of us (me and teenaged grandson) prebooknig a private vehicle---but decided against precooking. Guess what!--we had private vehicle the entire time (at Porini Lion) as did all other groups/couples from each tent. Incidentally, there was a great mix of people there--families, young couples, old couples, professional photographers. To me this added greatly to the experience.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 03:15 PM
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I just booked with Offbeat for four nights in Feb. Anthony was very responsive and handled all my questions. They handled the flights to and from Nairobi and asked about dietary restrictions. I love the idea of only 7 tents. Very excited. Plus got the four nights for three and 10%off discount for booking early.
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