Doogle

I read with intrest your posts on Mapula, please can you let me know what the birding is like there and if it is a place to go for Birders.

Is Kwando Lagoon a better proposition for Birders.

They have been to Xigera and are looking for something similar.

Thanks

mv

Doogle
I can not compare since I have not been to Mapula.
Lagoon has good birding. Some of the specials I have seen (between July and early October)
Wattled Crane,Little Banded Goshawk,Longcrested Eagle, and many more. If you can get the guides to take you to the very northern part of the concession you may see Rackettailed Roller.
I do find the birding much better at Kwando Lebala. Specials I have seen include
Wattled Crane, African Rail, Bronzewinged Courser, Rednecked Falcon, Purple Gallinule, Pallid Harrier, Bradfields Hornbill, Lizzard Buzzard and many more, Rosythroated Longclaw, Rofousnaped Lark and Lesser Spotted Eagle.
Michael

Doogle

Thankyou for this, now we just hope that Lagoon is available!

PredatorBiologist

Mapula was excellent for birds due to its varied habitats. There are some nice water resources that concentrate water birds, ample open plains, small wooded habitats that skirt the open plains creating excellent edge habitat and then true woodlands as well so a serious birder could cover a lot of habitats and thus see a large diversity of species. We were the first to discover Pel's fishing owls finding a pair out in an area known as Old Vumbura so it would be worth checking to see if the owls are still in that area (likely) but it is an area that is not often visited because it is far out. I think it would be one of the better areas to bird in and of course much more likely to be distracted by big game than Xigera but not nearly so water oriented as Xigera.

I have only stayed at Lebala with a single drive into Lagoon area so I can't really give a fair comparison as most of what I saw at Lagoon was very wooded and not as diverse but the Kwando concession as a whole is similar with the mixed habitat resources. Because of that I think both areas would be excellent for birding and determined guiding would be the most important factor.

HariS

Kwara - during the summer months, the African skimmers are right in front of camp by that Lagoon.

HariS

Btw, Doogle - you sending clients to places that you have never been to after reading about them on a public forum?

Doogle

Hari

Unfortunalty all the other places are booked in September, I saw Kwara lagoon years ago when it first opened and have not seen it recently so have not seen the refurb. I do trust what Predator Biologist says and therefore am comfirtable using his recommendations. Would be different if it was just from someone that was guessing!

lbj

Doogle = joker

Firstly, birding season is certainly not in September, so if you were worth your salt as a TA you would not send them til at least October/November. When you are sure most of the migratory birds have arrived.

You are going on the hearsay of PB, someone who has probably spent less than 10-14 days in Botswana. That is not to be disrespectful towards PB, but towards you using a public forum to organize your trips. Your are the type of agent that lands camp manager in a lot of trouble and creates itineraries that do not match client expectation.

Lagoon is a camp that I really enjoy, though its birding is good, the Kwando Delta option is far more consistent. Kwara is prolific in terms of game and bird viewing, plus there is also the heronry available. By late September the storks would have their young which is quite a spectacle. This is what your guests want to see, good birding?

Lagoon's birding becomes better in the wet season, with the arrival of Carmines etc at the end of september. March/April are excellent months for Owls as they are ecoming into their breeding season.

Lagoon is a camp that provides excellent big game experience. Everyone knows when booking, that this is one of the big focuses. So will you boooking a private vehicle?
Because in a shared vehicle you will find your clients could be disappointed. If they are at a water camp in the delta, then they can mokoro and do more bird orientated activities. BTW, there are other options bar Kwando and Wilderness. So rather than think about your commission, why not look at other options and deliver for your clients.

I would rather send your guests to Kwara over Lagoon, if going with the Kwando Option. If sending them to Lagoon, make sure you book a private vehicle, or your birders will spend alot of time following wild dogs, though they will have some good bird sightings along the way if other guests are accommodating.

Why did I respond, certainly not to help you out. As an angent who posts frequently on this forum, I thin it demonstrates not only the lack of knowledge of people in your industry, but also the agendas some of you seem to be driving on here.

Secondly, I feel for the camp manager and safari company that has to contend with one of your unsatisfied guests. Word of mouth is major influence in many return guests decision to go to certain camps. Talking to other guests etc. I would hate to think that somewhere like Kwando Lagoon had its reputation lowered because an agent mis-sold the place.

Why don't you email KWando and ask them Lagoon Vs Kwara for birding.

Doogle

lbj

Why oh why to I need to explain the details, not that it really matters, but thanks for calrifying that you are much more equipped to do my job than I am, I will be sure to refer the group to you for the next program that they do.

I am quiet aware that there are other properties in Botswana, however through no fault of mine or the groups the accommodation that we had booked adn confirmed was double sold and I have no choice but to look for an alternative. Not having been to Botswana in September but only in October, January, march, April and May I was not sure which camp offered the better sightings. I could ask kwando to move them to Kwara unfortunatly all the people booked there may have a problem wit me kicking them out thier rooms, and my only alternatives are these.

Before attacking, it was a question it was asked and I am but a lowly operator with no knowledge ruining peoples trips, so I thought I would ask an expert birder in the hope that I will be able to give them a better trip!

Sorry to have offended you send me your details I will be sure to pass them on so that I do not protect my commission by checking every single lodge in the delta!

lbj

I would love to help, but unfortunatly don't book safaris. Though after spending 80-90 days last year on safari in Bots, Zim and Zambia, I say the following:

"Investment bankers don't book safaris, but if they did, they would probably be the best safaris in the world" - no sub-prime jokes.


My point is all the comments you agents make on here, regard how amazing Zibs new accommodation will look etc. Though you have to ask a public forum where is best for birding?


You answered your question in your opening post. Looking for somewhere similar to Xigeria, well, that would have to be a delta water based camp.

lbj

As for ruining trips, I would thank the staff at the lodges who are forced to bend over backwards and make up for the mistakes agents make. Hence why lodge management was fun, but never again.

Doogle

Hence why Lagoon has been booked.

Why do you assume I made the mistake?

lbj

Not to belabour the point, but Lagoon is not a delta camp and the birding not really comparable to Xigeria, which is what I thought your clients were looking for.

As for making the mistake, I did not accuse you making the double booking error. If you read through the point I was making of ruining trips is sending birders to camps that are not renowned as such. Birders are best suited to spending their time in the delta, rather than the Linyanti/Kwando areas. Much like agents sending their clients to walking camps where they then demand game drives.

Kwando lagoon is a great camp. The dogs are a real highlight. Though for twitchers I think a delta option would be more producitve. Something I personally feel an agent should know.

skimmer

LBJ,

I share your opinion on this.

It's interesting to read some of the advice(which is unaccurate or pointless sometimes), made by so-called pro's.

Greetz,


Johan

HariS

LBJ/Skimmer,

Reading all the threads, i think Doogle is just trying to comandeer the fodors forums after the absence of other travel agents who don't post around here anymore.

It is obvious, that Doogle hasn't been to Kwando Lagoon before. They probably think that Lagoon sounds more like a water based camp vs the actual camp that it actually is!

Btw, Doogle - Lagoon hasn't had a refurb and probably won't get one in time for September.

Also, it is exactly some of these travel agents that create the myth that all camps in Botswana are booked up waaaaaaaaaaay in advance!

Cheers
Hari

HariS

One thing we ought to have learnt from the whole fodors travel agents based soap opera from late last year was that the Southern Africa travel business is a very dirty one - which involves gobs of commissions and that travel agents like to play dirty ....... ofcourse, there are some genuine ones - but, many of us are cheesed off by many of them and want to stay clear of them!!!

HariS

lbj mentioned shared vehicles being a nuisance for special interest groups - the last time i was at Lagoon, was a late booking so was in a shared vehicle with some researchers(mostly, because my guide of choice was prebooked). Can you believe - their travel agent told them that they would get a free private vehicle to go research plants and trees and the like?

They wanted to go check out the mopane veld etc etc etc., they were a nice couple and easy to chat to - but, we had very different interests. I quickly was able to book a private vehicle with the assistance of Charles who was managing Lagoon during the stay ...... as luck would have it, it worked out well for me in the end - but, i assume they were disappointed and that they mainly had the travel agent to blame!!!!

atravelynn

Hari, How fortunate you were able to book yourself a private vehicle.

I'm all for getting along with vehicle mates but sharing a vehicle with people who want to concentrate on trees and plants would be completely unacceptable. I'd feel like my money was being wasted. Of course I like to learn about the flora in the area but not to the exclusion of the fauna.

I wonder if their agent was crooked or stupid? The scary part is that even if your agent is completely above board, the crooked or stupid agents can still negatively impact your safari through the clients they send.

By the looks of your pictures, you had a good time in your private vehicle or else you convinced them to trade some leaves and twigs for a cheetah kill.

HariS

Lynn,

It did cost me extra charge, but, no complaints - worth it!

I just can't comprehend how the travel agent could tell them that they would get a private vehicle at no extra charge. The reason i was in the same vehicle with them was, that the guide was a senior guide - I did get to sit up front with him, though. Really no complaints as it was only one drive. They didn't go out on the morning drive - don't know why.

lbj

Hari/Johan

Touche...................