Dreamer2

OK - Thanks.

AG - Definitely to the bottom. I was hoping there would be some river exit, but back to the top as well. (I've never been to the SW myself, or ever hiked or camped. I am really being a "good" parent and supporting his endeavor to have this once-in-a-lifetime experience, while inside I'm freaking out. And really, if I read all that stuff, I'm going to have to be medicated while he's gone.) It's a 10 day trip.

So - my choice on socks was limited because he has size 15 feet. But we've bought: 1 Wigwam coolmax liner, 1 Wigwam merino wool comfort hiker, and 1 Ingenious Gortex hiker that's liner and outer woven into one fabric.
WHat do you think I should send him with?

Thanks again for everybody's encouragement. Glad to get the clarification!

justme22

the merino wool comfort hiker. you shouldn't really put on two pairs of socks. it can lead to rubbing and blisters. the gortex although it is supposed to breathe may not and his feet could sweat. I found that out when i wore my gortex boots hiking in the east, where it can frequently be wet on the trail from intermittent streams. Wool is the best on your list. you should also be able to find coolmax socks but the wool will do. NO COTTON and only ONE pair at a time. Unless you really know your feet, two pairs of socks can end up bad. (of course you can always take a pair off if you start to notice a problem)....

Ag3046

Dreamer- if it's a 10-day trip, then you don't need to worry. They won't be pressed to do anything extraordinarily difficult. It's the people that try to do it in one day, without sufficient water, or without hiking boots that get into trouble. Get several large moleskin patches ( with a small scissors) to use to cover areas that start to develop blisters. I always carry moleskin when hiking because I tend to get sore areas on my heels. Read about the amount of water to carry. Take several pair of soxs - whatever others recommend. For 10 days, maybe 4 pair of matching sox. There is nothing more heavenly than washed feet and clean sox when hiking. Take some lightweight sandals for around camp- I love Keens (www.zappos.com). Waterproof sunscreen, hat with wide brim (not a baseball cap). Bandana ( can be used for dust, can wet to cool your neck).

enzian

Dreamer,

All very good advice above. You really do not need to worry--this is a very safe hike, as long as you are prepared, follow the rules (about water, salty foods, etc.), and go with someone who knows what they are doing.

It speaks well of your son that he wants to do something like this. And of you as a good mom that you will let him.

I know you can't help worrying a bit, but he may well remember this as a highlight of his teenage years. We are taking our 14-year-old daughter on a hike to the bottom next week, camping 2 nights. If we didn't think it is safe, we wouldn't take her. It will challenge her, but we've hiked with her in the Alps and we know she can do this too.

BeachGirl247

Back to the sandal vs. boot issue. Boot!
I wore my Keens with the toe guard and full back and I was constantly getting gravel and dirt in my shoe. Its fine for light hiking, especially with water involved in your trail, but like the others said above --
Go for the full hiking boot. Much more confortable.

USNR

Those who wear sandals: I can hardly wait until you come across one of those places where the Grand Canyon mule trains take a break -- you will find there a regular pond of mule urine, feces, and mud from the mix of the two. Happy trails to you and your sandals!

TheWeasel

<I am really being a "good" parent and supporting his endeavor to have this once-in-a-lifetime experience, while inside I'm freaking out. And really, if I read all that stuff, I'm going to have to be medicated while he's gone.) It's a 10 day trip.>

There are 2 payphones at the bottom, so he can call you to let you know he's not dead if that would make you feel better.

Dreamer2

Very funny.

I'm going to operate on the premise that no news is good news.

Enzian, JustMe, Ag: Thanks so much for the tips/advice. Enzian, have a great trip with your daughter!

TheWeasel

Dreamer - I wasn't trying to be flip, just letting you know that there are phones so he can call you and check in.

If this 10 days all at the Grand Canyon, or is the GC hike part of a larger trip? Sounds like the latter unless they're planning on hiking some of the more primitive areas of GC, because there's a stay limit at the developed backcountry campsites of 7 nights in each of the different areas and a limit of 2 consecutive nights at each campsite. So, the advice about how many socks to take, etc. would vary depending on how many nights they're actually down there - no point in carrying more than he needs.

Dreamer2

There really are pay phones down there ???

It's 7 nights on the hike. Two nights in a hotel: day of arrival and night before departing.

But, the directors did say to take no more than 2 pair of socks even so. They have a really limited packing list, since they are carrying all the food and camp gear.

He is taking extra sneakers for around camp, plenty of heavy duty sunscreen, outback hat, journal, digital camera, couple bandanas, one fleece pant, one wind pant, two nylon shorts, one fleece top, one windbreaker, one cotton top, one long-sleeve sunscreen shirt, long underware, two socks, flashlight, compass, 2 nalgene bottles and a big water sack - oh and we still need to find something called a gaiter. And we are considering a "camp chair," along with sleeping bag. He's been wearing the boots since Jan.

Any other tips? Thanks in advance.

enzian

Sounds like a wonderful trip!

The payphones are at Phantom Ranch, I believe.

Gaiters cover your ankle and prevent dirt and grit from getting down into your boots. Mostly used for off-trail scrambling.

You might ask about a Petzl headlamp instead of the flashlight:

http://www.rei.com/product/751756

They are very light (3 oz.) and with the LED lights the batteries last a LONG time. My nephew borrowed mine to stay up and read for hours when we were down there last year. Actually, I always take both the headlamp and a mini-Maglite, but I'm compulsive.

If he has a Thermarest sleeping pad, I think they make a widget that will turn it into a "camp chair" with a minimum of extra weight. But then it's a seat with backrest, still for sitting on the ground.

If he's only taking 2 pair of sox, make sure he knows he needs to wash them out at the end of each day, and sete them to dry, so one pair is already clean and ready. Wet or dirty sox are a major cause of blisters.

I'd add a bit of duct tape to the list on general principles. Some places sell mini-rolls, or you can take a nearly-finished roll and flatten it to save space.

Ag3046

1. I agree with the Pezel ( or similar) headlamp. Far, far easier to use and looks very cool.

2. My 4 pr socks recommendation is based upon either not washing or not haveing fully dried socks. Wet socks= blisters.

3. Gaiters? Really? You might be able to find them on-line at REI or Campmoor. There are some that go up to the knee, and some that just cover the ankle. You might want to find out which is recommended. The knee ones are great, but I think would also be hot. I use mine for X-country skiing.

3. I prefer an open sandal to a sneaker around camp so my feet can completely dry after taking boots off.

4. Long underwear? Really? And fleece pants? and wind pants? About 2 pants to many to me.

5. 2 pr extra socks do not weigh anywhere near what all that stuff in #4 does.

6. Duct tape -yes, a little bit. Can be used to bind stuff together that falls apart- including boots. I've seen people use it in desperation to cover really bad blistsers, but I prefer moleskin.

Ag3046

Dreamer - I assume the leader is going to leave a bag in the car at the top. Have your sun put an extra change of clothes w underwear and sandals in there so he doesn't have to wear his 10-day filthy stuff upon return.

LindainOhio

Dreamer 2
I don't notice trekking poles on your list. They are most valuable.

It is also really nice having a Camelback to hold water--its a bladder with a hose attached--ours holds 100 oz.--no fumbling with the pack to get to your water. Our backpack has a sleeve that holds the Camelback.

Also make sure your son cuts his toenails--the downhill trek can push your toenails against the front of your boot. We actually got ballerina gel toe guards at the dance store and no one had sore toes.

Ag3046

LindaInOhio

Those gel toe pads are a great idea. It is sometimes difficult to rememer your toes on long hikes. I'm going to get some and try them out.

I agree completely with trekking poles, too. Maybe I might not have needed them when I was 15, but my knees sure love them now.

enzian

OK---so jilkovina seems to have given up on us, may I ask a question of those posting here? Anyone been down the South Kaibab recently? Last year, in sections of the trail, there were huge pits behind each wooden step (rail tie?), dug by the mules' feet. So for each step, you had to step up from the pit onto the wooden step, then waaaaay down into the next pit (18" or so), then up onto the next wooden step, and so on. Pretty tedious, especially for a small person like me. I was really glad I had the trekking poles.
Somewhere I heard they were doing repairs on the SK last fall, but don't know if that means they filled in or smoothed out the pits.

Just curious if we will find the same thing when we hike next week.

Thanks!

And now back to the packing list. . .

rm_mn

There was a work crew (volunteers) on the South Kaibab in mid-March doing that kind of work. On March 12th they were on the trail working by about 9:00 A.M. I don't know how far they got as we only hiked to the OOO-Ah point and turned around.

enzian

rm_mn, you made my day! As I recall, the wost of it was between the rim and that point. There was another stretch of washboards lower down, but it wasn't as bad.

TheWeasel

Dreamer - Yes, there are 2 payphones. 1 is outside the bathrooms at the south end of Bright Angel campground, and the other is outside the bathrooms at Phantom Ranch. Calls from the BA one were clearer on my trip.

Do you know what the hiking itinerary is? With 7 days in the canyon and the fact that gaiters are on the list lead me to believe they're going to do some non-corridor trails. In that case, gaiters would possibly come in handy because the trails aren't maintained and he's much more likely to run into some brushy areas.

I have to disagree with the recommendation for sandals while camping. Far too easy to get cacti spines in your toes, and it's always recommended you wear shoes wherever snakes/scorpions are possible as extra protection.

I don't get the recommendation for fleece pants, windbreaker pants and long underwear. Fleece pants would only be good for lounging around camp and staying warm, not hiking. The long underwear should be enough to keep him warm at camp. The windbreaker pants - don't get that either. I'd go for a pair of zip-off pants made for hiking instead of the 2 pairs of pants on the list.

Dreamer2

Yes, Weasel, that's what the guide said about sandals.

The fleece pants are supposed to be for sleeping, I think. Or sitting around in the evenings. I think the wind pants are for the beginning and end of the hike (near the top), and the nylon shorts are for the middle when they are at the bottom. I guess it's as low as 30's at night near the rim, and 70's during the day by the river. No? What kinds of bottoms do you think he should bring? I am going to put in extra socks!

So, we switched to a headlamp, may not get the gaitors (clarified as "nice to have"), and hopefully will pick up a camel and that Thermarest convertible.

The ballerina toe pads are an interesting idea. I don't think I could get him to use them, though. I suppose if he was in enough pain! Very clever. One of his knees isn't great, but nobody is bringing walking sticks. Do teenagers really use them?

Any advice on an efficient way of packing cleaning wipes? And repacking the dirty ones? Yuk!

Yes, they will be able to leave a bag behind while they hike.

Great info, everybody. Thanks so much.