Looking for a wide open space holiday this summer. We are ruling out yellow stone and Grand Canyon. Concerned about Yellow Stone crowds and Grand Canyon heat. What would you suggest? If we are wrong in closing out these two let us know why?

Sarah,

The most dramatic wide open space I have visited (and that I believe would be good for a summer visit) is the Northeast quadrant of New Mexico. I am referring to the area within, say 75 miles of Santa Fe and Taos. Great combination of desert, Rio Grande valley, several mountain ranges, and even alpine conditions northeast of Taos (Wheeler Peak--over 13,000 feet).

Sounds great chuck but how was the heat and what month did you visit in? Were you able to get around on foot comfortably, I am referring to hiking here. I love New Mexico too.

I am partial to the Big Horn Mountains of North-Central Wyoming. Lots of diversity in a (relatively) small package. Some VERY scenic drives, a couple of high lakes, several moderate hikes, and longer hikes in the Wilderness Area. Nearby Bighorn Canyon is also impressive, especially Devil's Canyon overlook. There's lots of frontier history nearby, from the Native American Medicine Wheel to the Little Bighorn Battlefield (about an hour? from Sheridan).

The sun can be pretty hot during the day, even in the mountains, but no worse than Yellowstone as the altitudes are slightly higher.

There are a couple of lodges located within the National Forest itself (a bit pricey). The towns of Sheridan and Buffalo are well-stocked with hotels, restaurants, etc. There are also some Dude Ranches in the area. There are several developed campgrounds, plus dispersed camping in most areas of the National Forest; Cloud Peak Wilderness provides opportunities for backpack camping. Showers might be a problem, though; as far as I know none of the National Forest campgrounds provide shower facilities. Bear Lodge does have showers open to the public, but they're not very convenient. I believe KOA has one or two locations in the area (Sheridan, Buffalo, maybe Lovell?) - they might also have public showers.

If you want to see some photos I took over Labor Day weekend, visit "http://pages.prodigy.net/drsawyers".

Dave

Thanks Dave I appreciate the photos, they always seem to provide a useful glimpse into respective region. Was wondering what the crowds were like and what time of year you went.

bryce canyon.

I wouldn't say there are any crowds, as such, although the saloon at Bear Lodge can be pretty lively in the fall during hunting season. For the most part, "crowded" means seeing more than six people during a two-hour hike. My impression is that this is more of a local recreation area, with most tourists buzzing by on their way to Yellowstone.

I've been to the Big Horns in September of '99 and 2001, and drove through last July returning from Yellowstone. I think early summer, when the grass is green and the wildflowers are blooming would probably be the best time, I just haven't been able to arrange a trip at that time yet.


The altitudes are high enough that you will need to account for snow in the early spring.

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On a separate note, I was in Yellowstone last July, and didn't find the crowds a problem at all. Maybe because I was there mid-week, or maybe I was just lucky.

Sedona Arizona was wonderful - some great scenery all around there and Flagstaff (35 min away) and Grand Canyon (2 hrs. away) and the desert of Phoenix and Tucson and just 2hr. and 3 hrs. away. Amazing place. It snowed when we were in Sedona in APril 2001, so the altitude is nice and high. Phoenix and Tucson could be ext. hot, but worth a day trip.

If you can stand a bit of heat and want spectacular scenery without crowds, check out the national parks of Utah. Canyonlands has scenery no less spectacular than the Canyon, but hasn't lost its wilderness quality. In Capitol Reef you can walk five minutes off the road, and then feel as if you're on another planet.

No matter where you go, even at Yellowstone, if you're willing to get out of your car and hike for less than hour, you'll get away from 99% of the crowds. I've found drama and wide open spaces in places that you wouldn't think had any.

It's not the US, but, if you want to include Canada in your possible choices, I'd investigate Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia. The scenery is positively breathtaking and it is blissfully cooler in summer than the other suggested places.

The Canadian Rockies are also beautiful--and cooler.

I'll put in my bid for Oregon, especially the Columbia River Gorge, the Cascades mountains in Central Oregon, or the Wallowa Mts in Eastern Oregon. July and August are absolutely perfect weather.

In deferrence to the 49th State, which has incredible beauty, I nominate, from the 50th State: the North Shores of Kauai and the Big Island (Kohala, Hamakua), and the North Shore of Molokai. But *that's* one you have to work for.

Thanks Dave and Paul I will look further into your suggestions, Boots ever been in summer?... April is such a busy time at my job. Lauren I have explore the gaspe penninsula and I know something of what you are talking about. Thanks for the info about BC it is something I am looking at also. Did not knwo it was cooler does that cooler go for Montana and possibly Wyoming also? Anyone Know? Kalena I lived on Oahu for 3 years and go every summer since with at least one week on North Shore Kauai. This is the year I was trying to let go, experience another part of the planet. YOU ARE NOT MAKING IT ANY EASIER!!!

A couple of people have mentioned it already, but let me be more specific.
Southern Utah: Moab, a great little town to use as a base to explore Arches and Canyonlands. Such awesome scenary.
Monument Valley - the background to most early John Wayne movies. Great buttes and mesa.
Bryce and Zion - unbelievable, orange-red hoo-doos, and hiking the Narrows at Zion ( a small river that runs through towering cliffs).
This is stuff everyone needs to see.
In summer, it'll be HOT, but low to no humidity. try to go in May or September.
Also, I hear what you say about Yellowstone, but consider Jackson, Wyoming and Grand Teton Natl Park. I refer this over Yellowstone. Obviously, it'll be cooler there than in S Utah.

I can chime in with some alternatives, depending on how far you want to travel or how you define "wide open spaces" destinations.

Both Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon are full of visitors all the time - actually the crowds are more a problem at the GC than Yellowstone, because the area easily available to visitors (without complicated back country hiking) is much more limited than at huge Yellowstone NP. Note also that both parks are at quite high altitudes, which can require some adapting before strenuous hikes or backpacking jaunts. I think both places are better autumn destinations than mid-summer.

But other choices:
Northern California/Southern Oregon coast: If you haven't seen the redwoods, it's now time. Then the Oregon coast from the Calif. state line to around Newport for rocks, sand dunes, vistas, beach walks, all the fun stuff.

Western South Dakota: Badlands National Park is my vote for most dramatic landscape in the lower 48, mainly because it's so unexpected after the Black Hills (eastbound) or the plains (westbound.) Then on to the Black Hills for plenty of other things to see and do, from Mt. Rushmore to restored Deadwood and Lead. Great Americana.

Monument Valley/Canyon de Chelly, etc. The Four Corners area will be hot but not intolerable, and the landscape is awesome.

Grand Coulee/Kootenays/North Cascades: A big squarish area stretching from northern Washington State across the Canadian border through the Kootenays (Nelson, BC, for instance - very cute town in awesome scenery) then west through the Okanagan country (either side of the border) and across the North Cascades - uncrowded and amazing variety of red rock, mountain, old west scenery, with a lot of history thrown in, too, somewhat off the beaten path.

Farther away but wow - a loop around Alaska's Kenai Peninsula, Prince William Sound, Copper River basin, Denali, then back to Anchorage. You want big scenery? You got it.

Glacier National Park!!!!

Sarah,

Sorry to be so long responding to your questions about northeast New Mexico. Weather/temps--we actually went in early October, and it was crisp (60's in the day, 40's at night). I am sure it is hotter in the summer; however, the elevation is approx. 5,000 feet, so I doubt you'll get extreme heat.

Also, we mostly drove. But we did a little walking at Bandelier National Monument, and that was very nice. Also, on the way to Bandelier (approaching from the west southwest, i.e., from Taos) at a little place called White Rock (I believe)--fairly near Los Alamos--we saw some folks hiking along the ridge-line that looks east across the wonderful expanse of the Rio Grande valley toward the Sangre de Cristo mountains. Those hills are basically devoid of trees so it appears to be one constant *view* as opposed to hiking through forests to get to *the view*

Maybe this topping will get some New Mexican's attention, and you can get further details.

AHHHH I can't even begin to make up my mind with all these options thanks everybody. I really appreciate your lengthy responses. I think I want amaizing landscape and complete solitude. Live in NYC and it is always nice to get away from lights and the people....OK ONE LAST QUESTION. Maybe I will post a new question you all have been so helpful.

The Blue Ridge Parkway and the Shenandoah Valley are pretty lovely. It gets more mountainous as you get into North Carolina. I've known families who've done some great trekking and camping trips. (I figured the East coast needed some props here!)
Also, up north of the border, traveling from Quebec City towards the East takes you through the Charlevoix region. If you are looking to get away from crowds--this may be your place!

Grand Canyon !!!!
Why?
Spectacular.
Looks like a postcard even standing on the rim .
but can't articulate more than that.
It was 1971, I was 18, and traveling cross-country in a van.
I really do not remember.