Walking ok late at night in SanFrancisco?
Mar 23rd, 2005, 09:08 AM
#23
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>>Tenderloin is roughly a triangle bordered by Geary - Market - Van Ness.<<
That means Macy's is in the Tenderloin !!!!! I never thought of it that way. I agree with LoveItaly - the Tenderloin starts at Powell, but the first block or two west is OK.
Actually, 6th & Taylor do not intersect. I think the theater is at the corner of Taylor & Market.
Stu Dudley
Native San Franciscan
That means Macy's is in the Tenderloin !!!!! I never thought of it that way. I agree with LoveItaly - the Tenderloin starts at Powell, but the first block or two west is OK.
Actually, 6th & Taylor do not intersect. I think the theater is at the corner of Taylor & Market.
Stu Dudley
Native San Franciscan
Mar 23rd, 2005, 10:08 AM
#24
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Hi, loveitaly!
Didn't mean to mislead anyone! I'm not the one giving the outlines of where the Tenderloin is, history has made that designation.
I don't want to upset you further, but that wonderful place of high end shops and great hotels today known as Union Square used to be part of the Barbary Coast, land of "every vice and debauchery". "Maiden Lane" wasn't as innocent as it sounds today. Belden Lane, often mentioned on this forum, used to be part of the Barbary Coast as well. Powell Street also defined one of the boundaries of the Barbary Coast, which was a lot worse in the past than the Tenderloin is today. There are lots of places in San Francisco where tourists today tread totally oblivious to the city's raunchy history. I, personally, find that history fascinating.
Actually, not all of the Tenderloin is terrible. It is ethnically the most diverse of all of San Francisco's neighborhoods. The Theater District is within the Tenderloin. The Tenderloin got its name, as the story goes, because in the bad old days, the police were paid more for patrolling that area of town - so they could afford a better cut of meat, the tenderloin.
I'd take back the definition of Powell Street as one of the boundaries of the Tenderloin if I could, but those are the boundaries you will find in some of the historical accounts of San Francisco. Maybe I'm wrong, but then my sources are wrong.
As to why the various San Francisco neighborhoods have the boundaries they have today, I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the old Spanish/Mexican land grants. Someone correct me here?
easytraveler
me too, gently making my explanation
Didn't mean to mislead anyone! I'm not the one giving the outlines of where the Tenderloin is, history has made that designation.
I don't want to upset you further, but that wonderful place of high end shops and great hotels today known as Union Square used to be part of the Barbary Coast, land of "every vice and debauchery". "Maiden Lane" wasn't as innocent as it sounds today. Belden Lane, often mentioned on this forum, used to be part of the Barbary Coast as well. Powell Street also defined one of the boundaries of the Barbary Coast, which was a lot worse in the past than the Tenderloin is today. There are lots of places in San Francisco where tourists today tread totally oblivious to the city's raunchy history. I, personally, find that history fascinating.
Actually, not all of the Tenderloin is terrible. It is ethnically the most diverse of all of San Francisco's neighborhoods. The Theater District is within the Tenderloin. The Tenderloin got its name, as the story goes, because in the bad old days, the police were paid more for patrolling that area of town - so they could afford a better cut of meat, the tenderloin.
I'd take back the definition of Powell Street as one of the boundaries of the Tenderloin if I could, but those are the boundaries you will find in some of the historical accounts of San Francisco. Maybe I'm wrong, but then my sources are wrong.
As to why the various San Francisco neighborhoods have the boundaries they have today, I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the old Spanish/Mexican land grants. Someone correct me here?
easytraveler
me too, gently making my explanation
Mar 23rd, 2005, 11:15 AM
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>>As to why the various San Francisco neighborhoods have the boundaries they have today, I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the old Spanish/Mexican land grants. Someone correct me here?<<
Jose de Jesus Noe was a major Mexican land grant holder that owned everything from Twin Peaks to Daly City. That includes my old stomping grounds - the Noe Valley.
Jose Cornelio Bernal was another land grant holder - we have the Bernal Heghts neighborhood now.
Jose Sanchez was a former comandante of the Presidio and his son Alcalde held a large land grant which is now Pacifica - He has a street named after him.
Jasper O'Farrell did most of the street layout in the early days of SF - thus the street name.
Francisco Guerrero held a land grant in the Richmond district and has a street named after him
Of course, everyone in Calif knows of General Vallejo - who has a street named after him also.
Bush street was named after............
Jose de Jesus Noe was a major Mexican land grant holder that owned everything from Twin Peaks to Daly City. That includes my old stomping grounds - the Noe Valley.
Jose Cornelio Bernal was another land grant holder - we have the Bernal Heghts neighborhood now.
Jose Sanchez was a former comandante of the Presidio and his son Alcalde held a large land grant which is now Pacifica - He has a street named after him.
Jasper O'Farrell did most of the street layout in the early days of SF - thus the street name.
Francisco Guerrero held a land grant in the Richmond district and has a street named after him
Of course, everyone in Calif knows of General Vallejo - who has a street named after him also.
Bush street was named after............
Mar 23rd, 2005, 12:00 PM
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I never felt comfortable walking along Market street west of Union square towards the mission district, where a big number of homless people kept staring at me, and I felt like they could just attack me if they wanted to ! I wasn't even INSIDE the tenderloin. and I never even saw a single police officer around downtown SF.
That was last year on my first time in SF. well, the first time was when I was 8 but I don't remember that much about that trip!
When I came back home from SF last year I thought: thank God I have another city like NY where I can just enjoy walking and wandering around!
I actually said that I would never go back to SF because of what I said above.
But the more I read about SF, the more I want to go back !
So What areas of SF are safe, and what areas are not ! for exaple, is it safe to walk from Nob hill to Fisherman's Wharf during the day? how about at night?
I was very surprised to see that SF was ranked one of the safest major city in the US! and I thought it was the most dangerous major city in the US!
http://www.mercerhr.com/summary.jhtm...ontent/1173105
That was last year on my first time in SF. well, the first time was when I was 8 but I don't remember that much about that trip!
When I came back home from SF last year I thought: thank God I have another city like NY where I can just enjoy walking and wandering around!
I actually said that I would never go back to SF because of what I said above.
But the more I read about SF, the more I want to go back !
So What areas of SF are safe, and what areas are not ! for exaple, is it safe to walk from Nob hill to Fisherman's Wharf during the day? how about at night?
I was very surprised to see that SF was ranked one of the safest major city in the US! and I thought it was the most dangerous major city in the US!
http://www.mercerhr.com/summary.jhtm...ontent/1173105
Mar 23rd, 2005, 12:08 PM
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Bush St --- LOL Stu!!!!
Hi easytraveler, in no way did I mean to infere you were trying to mislead anyone.
It is just that in my experience tourist who come to SF sometimes get real concerned over where it is safe to walk. And as we know,Powell St., is a major street, the hotels, cable cars, west side of Union Sq. etc. So I try to not use that street as the beginning of The Tenderloin as I beieve that when visitors ask about The Tenderloin they are referring to the unsafe area of it.
I am well aware of SF history. My family came to SF from New Hamshire right after the Civil War. I think the history of SF is very interesting and is part of the draw of SF for visitors.
Again, I always encourage visitors to get famaliar with the streets during daylight hours versus nighttime.
And there are lovely places that to me are not the best area at night such as the Hotel Monaco which has the Grand Cafe. I personally will not stay at the Hotel Monaco as I do not want to walk their in the dark. But obviously for others it is not a problem.
Anyway, wishing all who are coming to enjoy SF this spring a happy and safe visit. And wishes for blue sky and sunshine too!
Hi easytraveler, in no way did I mean to infere you were trying to mislead anyone.
It is just that in my experience tourist who come to SF sometimes get real concerned over where it is safe to walk. And as we know,Powell St., is a major street, the hotels, cable cars, west side of Union Sq. etc. So I try to not use that street as the beginning of The Tenderloin as I beieve that when visitors ask about The Tenderloin they are referring to the unsafe area of it.
I am well aware of SF history. My family came to SF from New Hamshire right after the Civil War. I think the history of SF is very interesting and is part of the draw of SF for visitors.
Again, I always encourage visitors to get famaliar with the streets during daylight hours versus nighttime.
And there are lovely places that to me are not the best area at night such as the Hotel Monaco which has the Grand Cafe. I personally will not stay at the Hotel Monaco as I do not want to walk their in the dark. But obviously for others it is not a problem.
Anyway, wishing all who are coming to enjoy SF this spring a happy and safe visit. And wishes for blue sky and sunshine too!
Mar 23rd, 2005, 12:22 PM
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mveet "homeless" people on the streets of SF do not make it a dangerous city as the ranking establishes. They may make you feel uncomfortable or in the case of us local, annoy us, but that is not the same. Are there parts of SF that I would not walk in late at night, yes; just as there are parts of most cities that I as a woman would not walk in. There are very few parts of SF that I would not walk around during the day.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 12:48 PM
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>>So What areas of SF are safe, and what areas are not ! for exaple, is it safe to walk from Nob hill to Fisherman's Wharf during the day? how about at night?<<
I will specify the areas that re dicy - it's a much shorter list. BTW, SF has always been one of the safest cities in the US - by far.
The Tenderloin - area west of Powell, south of Sutter, north of Market, and west of Van Ness.
Mission & 7th area - which is the area south of Market next to the Tenderloin. It's west of about 5th, south of Market, east of Valencia and as far south as 16th St
The area around City Hall gets lots of homeless people, but I don't think it is unsafe - just unsightly.
Hunters Point and Visitation Valley, but I can't imagine any reason a tourist would find themselves there.
There are some small pockets I feel uncomfortable in:
-If you start at Franklin & Eddy, and go south along Franklin to Grove, west on Grove to Laguna, then south on Laguna to Oak, then west on Oak to Webster, and south on Webster to Market st, then northeast on Market back to Franklin & then north back to the starting point at Franklin & Eddy. Most of the places inside this boundry is a little dicy.
What remains - just about 95% of San Francisco.
Downtown
Financial District
SOMA as far west as 5th st
Nob Hill
North Beach
Russian Hill
Chinatown
Pacific Heights
Presidio Heights
Richmond
GG park
Most of the Western Addition
Haight
Castro
Noe Valley
Potrero
Bernal Heights
Parts of the Mission
Glen Park
Sunset
St Francis Woods
West Portal
Twin Peaks
Dubose Triangle
Parts of Hayes Valley
Stu Dudley
I will specify the areas that re dicy - it's a much shorter list. BTW, SF has always been one of the safest cities in the US - by far.
The Tenderloin - area west of Powell, south of Sutter, north of Market, and west of Van Ness.
Mission & 7th area - which is the area south of Market next to the Tenderloin. It's west of about 5th, south of Market, east of Valencia and as far south as 16th St
The area around City Hall gets lots of homeless people, but I don't think it is unsafe - just unsightly.
Hunters Point and Visitation Valley, but I can't imagine any reason a tourist would find themselves there.
There are some small pockets I feel uncomfortable in:
-If you start at Franklin & Eddy, and go south along Franklin to Grove, west on Grove to Laguna, then south on Laguna to Oak, then west on Oak to Webster, and south on Webster to Market st, then northeast on Market back to Franklin & then north back to the starting point at Franklin & Eddy. Most of the places inside this boundry is a little dicy.
What remains - just about 95% of San Francisco.
Downtown
Financial District
SOMA as far west as 5th st
Nob Hill
North Beach
Russian Hill
Chinatown
Pacific Heights
Presidio Heights
Richmond
GG park
Most of the Western Addition
Haight
Castro
Noe Valley
Potrero
Bernal Heights
Parts of the Mission
Glen Park
Sunset
St Francis Woods
West Portal
Twin Peaks
Dubose Triangle
Parts of Hayes Valley
Stu Dudley
Mar 23rd, 2005, 01:06 PM
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The only places I would not walk by myself during the day are not places most visitors would go, such as Hunter's Point or parts of Crocker Amazon. Late at night I would probably not walk around alone in parts of the Mission near 24th Street; parts of the Tenderloin; 6th and Mission; the Civic Center near the GG Theatre or UN Plaza. But then I don't usually walk around SF alone late night other than in my own neighborhood to walk the dog or a couple of blocks to my car.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM
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SAB, anywhere in SF you should look over your shoulder. I know a man who was robbed at gunpoint on Laurel street: it was more convenient for him to take the groceries home while the car was in the street, not in the garage. One of the safest areas!
Mar 23rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
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>>SAB, anywhere in SF you should look over your shoulder. I know a man who was robbed at gunpoint on Laurel street
lt;<
Still, SF is one of the safest cities in the USA. If you want to be real safe, stay in your house all the time with the doors locked - just like my mother-in-law does in Indianapolis. On the other hand, if you really want to enjoy all the wonderful things this City has to offer - go out & enjoy & don't worry. My MIL has not had a life for over 30 years.
Stu Dudley
lt;< Still, SF is one of the safest cities in the USA. If you want to be real safe, stay in your house all the time with the doors locked - just like my mother-in-law does in Indianapolis. On the other hand, if you really want to enjoy all the wonderful things this City has to offer - go out & enjoy & don't worry. My MIL has not had a life for over 30 years.
Stu Dudley
Mar 23rd, 2005, 01:56 PM
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To throw a wrench into everything, a lot of the dicey neighborhoods (Polk Street, Tenderloin and TenderNob, 6th Street) are where you'll find the most interesting bars, clubs and even restaurants nowadays. These are for the younger or young-at-heart crowd, though. You need to like "edgy."
I don't consider 24th and Mission dangerous at all. But I live here and subsequently don't really think of much of the city as dangerous most of the time, except maybe Bayview/Hunter's Point and the area by the Cow Palace.
That said, if I'm coming home by myself late in the evening, I usually take a taxi. It's too cold here at night!
Mar 23rd, 2005, 02:40 PM
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24th and Mission
Well, o.k., during the day anyway.
16th and Mission
O.k. with your guard up during the day or for an early show at the Roxie Theatre. NOT o.k. later at night.
Mentioning these two Mission intersections because of the BART connections.
Well, o.k., during the day anyway.
16th and Mission
O.k. with your guard up during the day or for an early show at the Roxie Theatre. NOT o.k. later at night.
Mentioning these two Mission intersections because of the BART connections.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 03:02 PM
#37
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Sooooo, in summery (and have I got this right?) after reading all the great input, if we have an 8pm theatre ticket at Golden Gate Theatre ...we should have dinner somewhere other than within walking distance of Golden Gate Theatre -- and just take a cab to the theatre (and from). However, the night we go to the 10pm Beach Blanket Babylon, since its in North Beach area -- we can walk to and from our Cow Hollow motel on Lombard if we want (and provided its not freezing and pouring rain!). Its good to find out all of this before we find ourselves in the middle of a problem!! Thanks to you all. We do love SF and have always felt safe there, but then again, haven't been to Taylor & 6th before!! You're all great...thanks.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 03:18 PM
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Leely I don't consider 24th and Mission dangerous per se but unlike you I don't live in that neighborhood and therefore I'm not comfortable late at night. I live 3 blocks from Haight street in Cole Valley and I know some would advise against walking around my neighborhood at night because it is near to Haight. I know where to go so I don't agree with that evaulation. I'm sure it is the same with you but most visitors are not privy to the kind of knowledge on acquires by virtue of living in a neighborhood. BTW Faina, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I have very good street smarts, or a combination of both but I have lived in SF for 30 years without incident of any kind. I'm with Stu, just go and enjoy.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 04:39 PM
#39
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onthegogo,
Yes--walk from BBB if it's not freezing. Not from 6th and Taylor.
SAB, actually I live in Noe Valley. And I agree with you, but the Mission has been attracting a "bridge and tunnel" crowd for so long now that it's pretty busy with revelers on weekend nights. I was simply specifying because guides aimed at the younger crowd often direct people to this neighborhood.
Yes--walk from BBB if it's not freezing. Not from 6th and Taylor.
SAB, actually I live in Noe Valley. And I agree with you, but the Mission has been attracting a "bridge and tunnel" crowd for so long now that it's pretty busy with revelers on weekend nights. I was simply specifying because guides aimed at the younger crowd often direct people to this neighborhood.
Mar 23rd, 2005, 06:15 PM
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Oh to be absolutely clear here, I'm cetainly not suggesting that anyone stay away from the Mission District. It is a fabulous, vibrant area of town and I love dining at places like Alma's, Delphina's, the Foreign Cinema. But it does have some rough spots and below Mission around 24th is one of them.
