Herself,
"Try practicing a little tolerance." I happen to tolerate more than I think I should have to these days. But when it comes to my health, excuse me if I don't feel like compromising. If you make that choice, good for you. Just don't complain if you experience any secondhand effects.

Hi thorn:

You are totally wrong, my post is sincere and I am a woman, mother and wife. I truly believe what I said. Surprise there are still some traditional families left out here. The unfortunate thing about us is that now when a person is faithful and has a good strong value system others instantly point fingers and call names.

I too have a right to my opinion on this forum. After all I wasn't the first to state it on this thread.

Rose wrote: "I assume those of you who are speaking against smoking and guns are women. I know men just don't fuss over such things. Please ladies, let's take our role of mothers and wives back to what it was meant to be and let the gentlemen work out all these political issues."

Wow. Where to begin?

1. Rose, if men don't fuss over such things, why would we trust them to work it out?

2. No one is taunting you because of your traditional values. I have traditional values, too, and I don't consider myself a militant feminist. But I don't think anyone should treat women as though they don't have a brain in their heads, and your post did. I hope you didn't raise any daughters to have this attitude. No, wait. I hope you didn't raise any sons to have this attitude.

3. As a wife and mother, I'm concerned about the welfare of my family. So discussing these issues is quite consistent with the traditional role of wife and mother. If you don't care about them, fine. But please don't suggest other women shouldn't.

4. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and I do appreciate that you expressed it without rudeness. But understand that others may take issue with it, and you'll be lucky if this is the last post taking you to task.

5. This is the year 2000.

And Linda, let me save you the trouble: "What does this have to do with travel?"

Dear Cindy,

I truly respect your right of opinion. When I said that men don't "fuss" over things like we women I did not mean that they don't care. I am sure they are concerned with the same issues, I feel however that they are better suited to make choices concerning certain issues on our behalf. Why? Because as you can see from these and previous posts men just simply look at things from a different perspective.

As for the year 2000 yes and for we "traditional" families there lies the point. Certain things should never change (ie:a 2 parent family)

PLEASE: It is not my goal to change your thinking, I am happy with my own and enjoy sharing it. I never mean to insult someone else's lifestyle. My original points were merely my own observations.

Respectfully, Rose

Ruth, puhleeze! How do you know the genders of everyone voicing an opinion? Why in the world would you say men are better suited to make choices on our behalf? If that were true, I guess women shouldn't have been given the right to vote. Or own property. Tell me this is a put-on.

Dear cough: I suppose you have no annoying habits or other offensive behaviors. The way I see it is that you can go outside too. Smokers aside, there are virtually NO romantic or quiet places to dine these days, even in the priciest of places. You'd think you were in the HS cafeteria. Very loud people, yelling to the person next to or just across from them. Do they think they can't be heard when everyone else in the room thinks they're LOUD? Then, there are the laughers. Laugh at everything. Not every word can be that funny and surely not worth that annoying laugh. Over and over and over and over again. I would ask what you wear when dining? It is too ridiculous when folks go to a fine restaurant in attire better suited for a baseball game - watching it from their couch at home. Smoking is insignificant. I want to know when all states will have no violent crime. And, no guns. Do you realize there are countries where police officers are not armed with guns? Imagine! (To quote John Lennon) Where the locals and shop clerks (not talking on the telephone) are actually friendly and helpful? Where visitors can safely wander the streets in the dark and enjoy soaking up the scenery? And, then there are those stomach churning fragrances everywhere. Folks who fill up an entire room (even after they've departed) with make-you-feel-like-throwing-up scents - or even the whole outdoors. Way worse than a bit of smoke. All in all, cough, all of life is one's challenge in adapting to and managing to subsist in one's environment. Not to mention dealing with the people. And, belly-aching will get you absolutely nowhere.

Ralph, none of your own gripes there are known carcinogens. Second smoke is.

And yes, "bellyaching" as you so eloquently put it, will in fact be the impetus for change. It already is. Contrast today's attitude about smoking with that of 20, or 30 or 40 years ago. Big tobacco has been exposed for what is -- a legal drug pusher. They are on the defensive and on the run.

Ralph,

Why are you concerned about violent crimes and guns? Probably the same reason I'm concerned about second-hand smoke - because innocent people could die. Smoking is far from insignificant.

Maybe you didn't really read, or understand, my original post. I said, while dining, those who smoke can go outside to get their fix. After all, we are there to dine. What exactly are you suggesting I run outside to do, breathe?

And of course I have some bad habits, but none that could result in someone else's death.

Dear Elizabeth,

Of course I mean what I've stated. There is no disrespect intended, my lifestyle and views are not the same as yours obviously. I do feel that a woman has every right to vote and own property if she desires. I also feel that if she is married her husband should have the final say in all issues.

I understand that this way of thinking is not always pleasing to certain people. Although my goal is not to change your mind, it would be nice if you could find it in your heart to tolerate my views, as I do yours. I can assure you that in the town I live in there is a large community of families that live the way I do. Our divorce rate is much lower than the average and our children are well educated.

It is sad that I feel the need to defend my traditional lifestyle. I am truly sorry that I have upset you.

I am now a non-smoker. I find it very difficult to believe that second hand smoke is worse or just as bad as first hand smoke. This makes no sense since the smoker inhales dense smoke from each puff into the lungs, PLUS the second hand smoke. I would love for someone to explain this to me. Until then, I say it's BS.

Dear Ruth (sorry I got your name wrong before):

You didn't upset me, and I can tolerate your views. I just thought you crossed a line when you directed women not to worry their pretty heads about important issues like tobacco use. You can defer to the men in your life all you like. I guess there are women who really are better off and happier having men make their decisions for them. It does make me wonder why you would bother posting on a thread like this if you really think it isn't a woman's place to have an opinion about tobacco. What is your opinion, by the way? And explain to me again how you know Cough, Tobacco and others with fake names are men or women?

Just a simple question here.... Do any of you know of any states other than Californa that are trying to pass the non-smoking in bars/restaurants?

I don't know if nonsmoking bars, restaurants and hotels are voluntary or not in Utah, but every place we went seemed to be entirely nonsmoking. Maybe it's just voluntary because of the large numbers of Mormons? Not sure, but we loved Utah not only for its spectacular natural beauty and very friendly people, but also for all the nonsmoking hotels and restaurants. Keep up the good work, Utah.

Oh ho ho...this SO relates to travel...

For those of us who live in California, it's always a bit of a surprise when we're in another state, and the host/ess asks, "smoking or non?". Usually the unsuspecting Californian stands with a "huh?" look on her face until she realizes that once again, she's not in Kansas anymore.

So she takes her seat in the restaurant in the non-smoking section, which is about 2 feet away from the smoking section.

The smoke ruins her appetite. She's simply not used to this. Her eyes water. She rubs them, and oops! A contact pops out into her mashed potatoes, and disappears into a black hole.

Since she's a Californian, and all Californians are blonde and dumb, she didn't bring an extra pair of contacts. She'll just have to hope she can tell who the key players are at the important meeting tomorrow at Sony. But wait! They're all Japanese...as if they all didn't look alike enough already!

Damn, she wore the blazer to dinner tonight that she was going to wear to the meeting tomorrow, and she reeks! Too late for hotel dry cleaning, she'll just have to smell.

She loses the deal because she blindly tells one executive he looks like Judge Ito, except the good judge is actually a woman. But hey, at least since everyone is asian; they all smoke and stink too.

And all because the poor, naive Californian forgot that other states allow smoking indoors.

Kristian -- Where did you acquire such racist views of Asians?

Cindy:

I think there are amusing stereotypes for EVERY race...sorry, what can I say? I'm as politically incorrect as they come.

As for my "racist views" of Asians, well, I'd have to say a lot of it came from my own family, since I'm 100% Asian, and loving it.

Any other questions???? =P

Kristian, sorry to be rough with you, but I was always pretty sure Asians were offended when people said they all looked alike and stank. Glad to know I'm free to make such statements without offending. Whew! Thanks for setting me straight.

Cindy:

It doesn't surprise me. I think there is more subtle racism per square mile here in California than anywhere in the world. And that includes everywhere I've been in the South. It's just that here, people aren't as outspoken--but they think the same way, or worse.

If we're shortening your lives as well as our own why are you still HERE complaining? Should be dead and buried by now with all that deadly vapor you're inhaling. By your own account, you should all be in an intensive care unit with your tar filled, nicotined stained lungs and we can continue to puff away and enjoy life without your pathetic whining.
P.S. Cough@hack-cough-wheeze, so glad you were able to remove your respirator to post such an interesting topic.
Really people, go back to planning your bombing of abortion clinics. Oh wait, there's smoke involved in that too!!

Thank god for Phillip Morris, they manufacture cigarette's (Cancer) Miller Beer (alcoholics, drunk drivers and liver disease) and Kraft foods (fattening artery cloging chemical crap).

If I were a conspiracy buff id say there helping thin out the weak stupid humans in our herd.