VA tech shootings

Old Apr 16th, 2007, 07:25 PM
  #21  
 
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Shandy,

I have to think. You are probably correct that if every student on campus had a gun, the guy would have been stopped well before he killed 32 people.

However, how many others would have been killed by accident?

What a problem!!!!
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Old Apr 17th, 2007, 07:39 AM
  #22  
 
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I can see the issue from both sides and had a brief but good chat with a colleague in the UK about it today. It will definitely bring a conversation about gun control to the forefront.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 11:05 AM
  #23  
 
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"The second amendment refers to "a well-regulated militia" not the ability of every idiot or lunatic with several hundred dollars to buy an assault rifle - or worse - with no checks or controls."

Actually all males age 17 to 45 are in the militia, plus all women who are in the organized militia: per TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > 311 of the US Code. There are two classes of militia: 1. The organized militia (National Guard and Naval Militia) and 2. the unorganized militia--all those not in 1.

The intent of the 2nd amendment is precisely that all able bodied men (at that time, men only) can own weapons and be proficient (well-regulated, like the regular army) at using them. This is not only to be able to oppose foreign invasion and internal insurrections, but to be able to oppose the national government if it becomes oppressive. The writings of the time that discuss and debate the amendment make this very clear.

The current debate shouldn't be on the meaning of the second amendment, as only the most intellectually dishonest debater (though dishonest in what they think is a good cause--banning guns for everyone except criminals) will deny the clear intent of the amendment.

The current debate should be whether or not the harm done by legal gun purchasers is greater than the harm that would be done by taking away the right of legal gun purchasers to buy guns--through a Constitutional amendment to negate the second amendment.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 11:08 AM
  #24  
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Show your support Friday and wear Orange & Maroon.

http://www.vt.edu/

A national movement started by the alumni of Va Tech.
 
Old Apr 19th, 2007, 11:54 AM
  #25  
 
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I guess we need to ban fertilizer too since we know the right combination can be much more deadly as in the Oklahoma City bombing...

I think what we really need to do is stop stigmatizing mental illness and make care more mainstream.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 12:15 PM
  #26  
 
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I hate to jump into a political thread, because no amount of heated discussion can undo what's been done. However, I agree with the few posters who said that guns alone weren't the real issue. I don't own a gun and I don't support gun ownership -- but I don't think there's an easy solution. There are a million ways to align this tragedy to one's political beliefs about gun control, mental illness, immigration, violence on television, and so on. But there's no single factor to blame. It's a historically unprecedented tragedy. Any energy spent arguing about why it happened would be better spent comforting the affected families and helping students in every school feel safe again.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 12:29 PM
  #27  
 
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So... Ban guns cause someone used it to kill people?
Ban cars, more people die by those than by guns.
Ban knives, people cut/hurt/die by them.

Want me to go on?
The gun only provided the means.
The boy pulled the trigger.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 12:52 PM
  #28  
 
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Come on Kingbuff, handguns are used for one reason, to KILL PEOPLE!! How many drive by stabbings have you read about? Hmm. Also, using cars in your argument is inane. Please don't use the old story that we already have so many laws for guns now. Well, each law that have been able to be enacted has been so watered down and piecemeal that we are still have different laws in each state and states like Virginia are a big source for supplying more strict states. The NRA has blood on their hands...over and over. This time we mourn for the victims at VT, tomorrow it will be someplace else (maybe even on your own street!)
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:15 PM
  #29  
 
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"Any energy spent arguing about why it happened would be better spent comforting the affected families and helping students in every school feel safe again."

I certainly agree that we need to comfort the families. But the only way we're going to make students in every school feel safe is to try to prevent this from happening again. And we can't do that without debate and changing our approach to guns, mental illness etc.

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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:31 PM
  #30  
 
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To clarify, CAPH, I never said we should rethink the way our country handles mental illness. I meant that I worry about people latching onto details like his depression or his nationality and judging other people based on that. There was obviously a perfect storm of factors going on here, along with pure sociopathy.

This was my point: How can we seriously expect to stop violence when people are so quick to attack each other's political beliefs on a travel board?
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:32 PM
  #31  
 
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Just want to put in my 2 cents...
I hate guns and I hate hunting..and I'm allowed to have that opinion
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:32 PM
  #32  
 
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Read your history and ask the victims of the Holocaust!
Oh, some now agree the shooter was insane?
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:43 PM
  #33  
 
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mrsd, I absolutely agree that it's your right to have an opinion that is different than mine.

What I was upset with was the OP's statement that if you own a gun or enjoy hunting then you do not have a "good conscience".
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:46 PM
  #34  
 
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Well, I don't know about a "good" conscience, but you must not have much of one to kill animals...
And that's not to imply that you are a bad person..my brother hunts and he's the greatest person you'll ever meet.
JMO!!!
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:47 PM
  #35  
 
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huh?
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:51 PM
  #36  
 
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that is nice. Way to class up this conservation by saying that anybody that kills an animal is without a conscience.

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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:52 PM
  #37  
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If you read what I wrote Killing for food is one thing but for sport it's something else. I did not start this thread to be argumentive, so I hope the editors will remove this whole thread.
But I stand by that guns are bad when our laws are not adequate and that's MHO.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:54 PM
  #38  
 
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I didn't say you were without one...read again.
I just don't know how anyone can look at those beautiful creatures and kill them, that's all.
Anyway- This is about to get out of hand. I apologize if I offended you, not my intetnion. Just wanted to give my 2 cents.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:56 PM
  #39  
 
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You absolutely meant to be argumentative.

"How can anyone in good conscience approve of guns."

I own a gun. You are saying that I don't have a good conscience...whatever that means by the way.

If that is not argumentative then I need to learn a new language.
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Old Apr 19th, 2007, 01:58 PM
  #40  
 
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whatever mrsd
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