Hi fellowfodorites,

You helped so much in the past, and I need your sage advice again. I've been reading (can't wait for the rest of Ellen's 3.5 week adventure) but I still have questions.

Right now I have on hold 2 tickets into Salt Lake City arriving 5/10 at 4:00pm departing 5/23 at 10:00am. Which gives us basically 12 days for actual vacation.

We want to see as many of the following as possible:

1. Arches N.P.
2. Canyonlands N.P.
3. Vermillion Cliffs N.M. (hope to get 2 of the few daily passes to hike to "The Wave"
4. Antelope Canyon
5. Grand Canyon
6. Bryce Canyon (repeat visit, dh fell in love with this place in 2004)
7. Capitol Reef N.P.

We prefer to take the scenic routes rather than the interstate. We love day hiking, just about any length and all but the most strenuous level. (Just to give you an idea, in late June, 2004 in Yosemite we hiked the Panorama Trail - Glacier Point to the Valley floor - and were able to get up the next morning and hike some more. We're not as fit as Ellen G. but we do okay.) Also love photography.

Anyway, back to this trip. What do you think? This is sort of a "scouting trip" like we made in 2004 when we flew into Vegas and drove through Death Valley, went to The Ancient Bristolcone Forest, Yosemite, Sequoia/Kings Canyon, Valley of Fire, Zion and Bryce. At least this time I'm keeping things a little closer together, but we don't mind putting in some long days driving.

Since this won't be our last trip to the Southwest (we flatlanders have fallen in love with the place) should we cut something or do you think we can get in a couple of days in most of these?

I've used AAA triptiks to calculate driving times/distances but I'd love to hear from the people who've "been there and done that."

Sorry this is so long but I didn't want to be one fo those posters whose first replies are "When are you going?" and "How long do you have?"

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Floridafran

ttt

Utahtea are you are there? I could sure use your advice. Your knowledge of this area is invaluable.

Thanks,
FF

We've been to all of those places, and I think it's hard to get all of that into twelve days if you want to do any hiking. You might want to get your Wave permits first and then structure your schedule around that. My husband and daughter hiked the Wave last December but I think they've changed the permit system since then. At that time, you could go on-line up to six months ahead of time to request the permit. They were giving ten a day at that time. I think now they also give ten to walkups, but don't count on getting one at the last minute. Plan a half day trip to the Wave (including a 17 mile rough road drive to the site).

happytourist,

Thanks for the reply. Does the rough road to the Wave require a high clearance vehicle?

At the BLM website they say the permits for May become available the 1st of February. I'm going to call to verify that, then if so, I plan to call, literally, the minute they come up for grabs.

Since you've been to all these places, would you mind sharing your insights. If you've posted trip reports I'll be more than happy to read them.

I know it's a lot to try to get in, but I just don't know what to cut. It all sounds so wonderful.

Thanks again,
FF

That's too much for 12 days-you won't get out of your car. Really, Arches, Canyonlands and Capitol Reef would be a great 12 day vacation. You could probably squeeze in Vermillion and Antelope but that is 5 destinations in 12 days, with significant driving time.

I would highly recommend getting the book "Hiking the Southwest's Canyon Country." It has great advice on hikes (for all skill levels) and scenic drives. This book should help you prioritize, since hopefully as you are reading and seeing pictures of the parks and hiking trails, you'll figure out which appeals to you the most.

My top hikes (none of these are too long/hard) in those parks are: the Great Gallery, in the Horseshoe Canyon unit of Canyonlands; the Needles overlook, in the Needles section of Canyonlands; the ranger led Fiery Furnace tour in Arches; and the Devil's Garden in Arches. There are great hikes in Capitol Reef too but I can't remember their names!

Do not miss a sunrise from Dead Horse Point State Park (near Canyonlands/Arches). It is beyond spectacular.

Well, I think the easiest thing to do would be cut out Grand Canyon and Antelope. I'd skip both of them and do them on another trip when you can spend more time to really explore. That would leave you with Arches, Canyonlands, the Wave (assuming you get a permit), Bryce and Capitol Reef. Seeing as you've already seen Bryce, you can probably plan on spending a little less time, as you've already seen some of it and will know what you don't want/need to see again.

Arches-you have to do the Delicate Arch hike (not the viewpoint, but the hike to the arch itself), and preferably be there for sunset. As Christy said, the Devil's Garden is great (do the primitive loop, it's no harder than the rest of the hike).

I did Horseshoe Canyon, and while the rock art is great, I didn't think the hike itself was much to get excited about. It's going to be 4-6 hours (or longer) with much of it walking in sand. The scenery in the canyon is nothing special to look at other than the rock art in several spots. If it's rained recently, you might have to skip it because the dirt roads leading to the canyon are not maintained very well.

The rest of Canyonlands is huge and could take several days by itself. Moab would be a good base for much of the week you'd need to explore everything in this area. Dead Horse Point is great for sunrise/sunset, as long as it's not totally overcast. I've heard it said that DHP is actually better than Islands in the Sky, although I do think it's smaller.

I've heard of The Wave, but I've never been. It looks like a place I'd love to go to some day!

I love the Moab, Utah area and it's very easy for us to spend a week here. Delicate Arch, Dark Angel, Park Avenue are my favorite hikes in Arches. Haven't done Furnace Creek but I hear that's very good too. I would plan on two days in Arches if you want to really see all of the park and take the hikes.

Canyonlands, Island in the Sky district. If you have a 4 x 4 I'd take the Potash Road and Shafer Trail up into Canyonlands. The Grand View hike is an easy 2 mile round trip hike. Mesa Arch is a short easy must do hike! Dead Horse State park is good but IMHO, Canyonlands Green River Overlooks is by far better. One full day for Canyonlands should be enough.

Capitol Reef is one of our favorite places to just relax! One full day here should be enough. There are many great hikes and you could easily fill two days.

Keep in mind that scenic Hwy 12 should be considered a destination in it's own right. Plan on a day between Capitol Reef and Bryce to enjoy this drive!

We've done the Upper Antelope Canyon tour. That takes 1 1/2 hours. We didn't do the Lower Antelope Canyon because my BIL has bad knees and couldn't do the ladders. If you spend the night in Page, AZ then you should also have enough time to do the short Horseshoe Bend hike.

You are trying to fit a lot into a short time. I agree that maybe the Grand Canyon would best be saved for another time since it is the farthest out of the way. You say you will be back and there are so many other great places to visit, like Canyon de Chelly, Canyonlands, Needles District, Hoovenweep, Monument Valley.

Utahtea

Weasel is right about the road to Horseshoe Canyon (I should have mentioned this)-call Canyonlands to find out about conditions first. And yes the hike is best if you are interested in seeing rock art is a very remote setting (the times I've been there almost no one else was-it was very cool and almost spooky!).

I also agree that Canyonlands needs several days to see the various locations.

Thanks, christy1, The Weasel, and uthatea for the additional info.

I know we're going to have to cut. It's just so hard to do when you come so far and only get to do it every couple of years. I can't wait until we retire so we can make longer trips.

Speaking of road conditions - how likely is it that we'll have ice or snow conditions in May in any of these locations? When we went to Yosemite, we planned our trip late enough in June so that, barring unusual weather, the Tioga Pass would be open.

Also, I keep reading about people renting SUVs or Jeeps. What I'd really like is a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top so we could have the convertible we love for trips out there but have higher clearance too. I haven't had much luck so far on that front. At least not in Salt Lake City. Should I start a new post about that?

Part of my problem is every website I go to I find so many gorgeous places and I want to see them all. And I want to do it now! I guess it's time for dh and me to have a long talk about what we each want to see then compromise and cut.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

FF

You can drive to the Wave in a car but you'll go slowly, so plan the extra time required.

If you're going to the Wave, you'll be near Horseshoe Bend, Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly. I think you need to plot all of these places on the map and figure out what makes the best loop. It may make more sense to do the Wave on another trip, as flying into Salt Lake City lends itself more to the Utah parks. Then fly into Las Vegas or Phoenix for the Arizona portion.

Hi Fran! Thanks for reading my report! It's taking as long to write it as it did to plan it, but planning is half the fun, don't you think?

You've gotten some great advice. You definitely could spend a week at most places, altho we personally would never do that even if we had the time. Our style is more to see less of more, intstead of more of less. (hope that makes sense?) More like looking at the big picture than finding a zillion details. And thats not the case everywhere (as in europe) but for much of our western road trips it has been.
Obviously not for everyone but it's worked absolutely wonderfully for us!

We didn't set out with that in mind, but since we thought our first trip west would be our last, we wanted to introduce our kids to as much as possible, whetting their interest so they'd want to return. (DH and i had been many times as kids)

But its been a delightful surprise that we've been able to take nine consecutive road trips to california, literally packing in as much as we can each time (we can sleep when we're dead, or at least back at home )

It may not work for you but spending only 2-3 days in each place makes each day a fresh adventure. Do let us know what you decide and happy planning!

I've been many times in May and never had problems with snow/ice.

I've also never had a 4wd, and I've been on plenty of the back/dirt roads (in a Corolla, no less) all over S. Utah. You honestly do not need clearance/4wd for any of the places you've mentioned. There are some 4wd roads near Moab (like Shafter Trail) that require 4wd and clearance, but you can rent jeeps by the day in Moab. If you not experienced with this kind of driving, you might prefer a jeep tour anyway.

I agree with Christy that it'd be best to rent a Jeep for a day or two when it's needed, rather than for the whole trip. It'll be cheaper that way (SUV's are pretty expensive for 12 days). As a Jeep owner, I can tell you they aren't the most comfortable to ride in for extended periods, nor do they have a lot of storage capacity. I'm sure you could probably fit luggage for 2 people in the back seat, but they're just not very roomy. Plus, if you rent a soft top, you have zero protection from theft, except for the little glovebox and storage box between the front seats. I'd save the Jeep rental for day trips when you have the ability to store your luggage, etc in a safe hotel room. Some of them do have a "trunk" that can be locked, but it's really only about 1X1X3 feet in dimensions, and could probably be broken into with a screwdriver (so it's basically useless for a traveller).

Jeep rentals are pretty common in Moab, and that would probably be the only place you'd really want/need it anyway.

We rented a great Jeep Liberty SUV last fall for 12 days and it was well worth it. We paid less than $500 which we thought was a great price. Having 4wd and good clearance is nice because it allows us to go anywhere we want. We use the Delorme Gazetteer (map) for Utah and set off exploring all the amazing backroads - we find some great out of the way places. See pics at www.pbase.com/peterb - scroll down til you see the 3 Utah galleries. We also have a really long trip report posted on Fodors that details our trip. We flew into LVegas, did 2 nights in Zion, 2 nights in Boulder, 2 nights in Torrey, 3 nights in Moab, and 2 nights at the North Rim. It worked out great. No matter what you decide for this trip, you'll go back again and again.

I swear you people make me want to have a weeklong hiking GTG sometime. How fun would that be???

Hi all,

Finally have time to get back to our trip plan after going to Atlanta for a family-get-together-Christmas.

Here is our tentative schedule, still subject to future tweaking. I know I haven't cut anything - which doesn't mean I don't appreciate the advice of those who suggested we do so. Nor does it mean I won't. But Tom and I are a lot like the Griswolds in that we like to get a taste of several places with an eye toward where we'd like to return for a longer stay in the future. So please - even if I haven't "listened" - don't abandon me. I still need help with places to stay, eat, routes, and "must-sees" or "not worth the times".

1. 5/10 arrive SLC 4:00 pm, get rental car and drive part way toward Moab, probably overnighting in the Spanish Fort area (suggestions appreciated)

2. 5/11 drive to Moab and spend nights 5/11, 5/12, and 5/13 at the River Canyon Lodge - Junior Suite. Spend balance of 5/11, all of 5/12 and 5/13 seeing Arches and Canyonlands. (I know this will give us only an overview of these parks, but that may have to suffice this trip)

3. 5/14 depart Moab area, drive through Monument Valley w/photo stops, to Page, AZ (anyone have suggestions for place to stay?)

4. 5/15 morning, do the Wave or Antelope Canyon depending on permit acquisition in February for Wave. (If we can't get a permit for the Wave, this whole section of the trip changes.)

5. 5/16 morning, do whichever hike/trip we didn't get to on 5/15. Afterwards drive to Grand Canyon, arriving in time for sunset. Overnight at Kachina Lodge

6. 5/17 sunrise at Grand Canyon with rim hike, short (hour or less) hike into canyon, overnight at Thunderbird Lodge. (I can't get both nights at either place, I'm going to keep trying to change that.)

7. 5/18 drive to Bryce via Alt 89 overnight Bryce

8. 5/19 Bryce - all day (have cabin in Park for this night, will keep trying to get one for the 18th also, if not - have Ruby's)

9. 5/20 Up early - as always - drive to Capitol Reef overnight Torrey (have some suggestions, welcome others)

10. 5/21 more Capitol Reef - overnight Torrey.

11. 5/22 a bit more C.R.N.P. then off to SLC to overnight and get up early 5/23 for 10 am flight home. (Any suggestions for a place to stay conventient to the airport would be appreciated)

I know I haven't cut a thing, but I've checked times and distances and, for us, think this is a doable thing. We don't mind moving around a lot and are generally up well before sunrise and don't stop sightseeing until after the sun sets. Breakfast for us is often an energy drink and fruit, lunch is
whatever we've taken to eat on the go. Dinner, after the last of the twilight has faded, is our only "sit-down" meal of the day.

I know for many this seems like a hurried and harried trip but we have yet to take a trip where we've spent
more than 3 nights in the same place. Perhaps one day we'll have had enough of "tasting" and be ready for a long, leisurely meal somewhere.

Thanks again for all your help. Please keep suggestions coming.

FF

Any reason you're not driving farther the 1st day? Moab is about 240 miles from SLC, and you could make it all the way there if you pushed it. I'd say Green River is definitely doable for sure.

If you want to carve out a couple extra hours for a more scenic drive to Moab, head east on I-70 and exit at Hwy 128. Take that south to Moab instead of 191.

Looking at the day (5/17) you're spending at the Grand Canyon, I'm wondering what you'll do to occupy your time. You say you're doing a sunrise rim hike, and then a short (hour or less) hike into the canyon. That'll only take you until lunchtime or so. Are you planning on just sightseeing the rest of the day, or interested in more hiking?

Hi Floridafran,
We like to move around every couple of days too. Your itinerary looks good. We stayed in a jr suite at River Canyon Lodge. Nice new room for a good price, great location for walking to dinner, etc. Hiking in Arches is awesome - we always look for trails away from the crowds. Loved the Tower arch hike; we saw no one. In Torrey, we stayed at the Capital Reef Inn - very inexpensive ($45), big room, noisy plumbing. Decent cheap meals at the cafe. We loved Cafe Diablo in Torrey. On your way from Bryce to Torrey, stop for a meal at Hells Backbone Grill in Boulder on Rte 12. Great place, delicious food. It's located at the Boulder Mountain Lodge, which is a really nice place to stay. You might consider a detour to Natural Bridges, then a drive down 261 and an overnight at the Valley of the Gods B&B - amazing location. You can check out photos at www.pbase.com/peterb - just scroll down thru the galleries til you see utah. Any questions, please ask. Sharon

Hi theweasel,

I hadn't planned on driving farther that 1st day because I thought we might take hwy 6 at Spanish Fork, then 191 to I-70, then 128 to Moab. I had read somewhere that the hwy 6 part of that drive can be a bit hairy after dark.

I haven't checked the sunrise/sunset times yet so I don't know how many daylight hours we'll have each day. Also, if it's a scenic drive we want to have a chance to "see" it.

Would love to know all you can tell me about both of your routes as well as your thoughts on the one I'd considered. Also, any other routes you think are best for the other parts of the trip. Although we're from good old flat Florida, we've done quite a bit of twisty, turny, drop off the edge of the world mountain driving so don't omit roads like that if the scenery is worth it.

Thanks for taking time to help.

FF

FF

I always use www.sunrisesunset.com to check the times because it covers most areas I go to. For May in Moab, it says the sunset will be around 8:15pm when you arrive, so I'd say you should have time to drive Hwy 6 and make it to Green River before it gets dark.

However, I've only driven to Moab from Denver, so I'm not familiar with that route. And I haven't made it past Moab yet, so I can't give you any suggestions for the rest of your trip, except do Hwy 128 if you can. It's much more interesting and scenic than 191 to Moab.

If you do make it to Green River and want to make a little side trip on the way to 128, there's a ghost town and some petroglyphs about 4 miles off the Thompson exit (about 28 miles east of Green River). I spend maybe 1.5 hours poking around there. There's also some dinosaur tracks a bit north of Moab. If you look at www.climb-utah.com there's a section on the Moab area that can give you directions.

The good thing about having several days in the Moab area is that you'll be able to sign up for a guided Fiery Furnace hike in Arches. Usually you have to sign up at least a day in advance, so you should go sign up the first day you're there to make sure you get a spot some time during the time you're in the area.