cheerful

Hi,

I am looking to visit area around Page, AZ. One of the office listed is b/w milepost 21 and 22. How can I locate it on a map?

The plan is trying to visit both Wave and Antelope Canyon on the same trip in Nov. Tricky bit is the lotto time for Wave is at 8:30 and Antelope tour starts at 9:30. Will I have time to get to the lotto first and then catch the Antelope Canyon tour?

Thanks

tomfuller

Information on the Wave: http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...te_buttes.html

Since it is only 18 miles from Big Water UT to Page, AZ, Milepost 22 should be 12 to 15 miles south of Page on US 89.

utahtea

The Upper Antelope Slot canyon tour can be done later in the day. In fact the closer to high noon the better the lighting in the canyon.

Utahtea

spirobulldog

Be at the Paria Contact Station (or the Kanab Field Office in the winter) before 9am Mountain Standard Time -Utah- (9am Daylight Savings Time in summer).

That is what I copied. That is where I think you need to be and the time you need to be there. I imagine that the lottery process might take a little time if there is a lot of people there.

Maybe when you called someone told you to be there at 8:30, but really the drawing begins at 9:00. So, I don't think you would have time to be at Antelope Canyon by 9:30 considering they still have to draw names and get you a permit issued if you are one of the lucky 10% of the people who get one. I say 10% because that's about the odds(who knows on the particular day you will be there). I would guess that November might be an easier time to visit. And a weekday would give you better odds than a weekend.

Myer

Why are you taking an antelope Canyon tour at 30.

Even better, why are you taking an Antelope canyon tour.

Just drive into the parking lot, pay the parking fee, pay the fee per person to have them drive you there and that's it.

The drive is about 15 minutes each way and you'll spend an hour there.


Only a few minutes from Antelope Canyon is Horseshoe Bend. This is a 3/4 mile hike each way that ends with a great view.

On Rt 89 just below Rt 98 (this is the Antelope Canyon cutoff turn). On the west side. There's a sign and a parking lot.

Worth the time and effort.

Bill_H

Milepost 22 should be 12 to 15 miles south of Page on US 89.

You are pointing the wrong way. Page is in Arizona, drive north on 89 until you get to Utah, then the mileposts start for Utah, so it's 22 miles north of the Utah state line.

Bill_H

the lotto time for Wave is at 8:30 and Antelope tour starts at 9:30. Will I have time to get to the lotto first and then catch the Antelope Canyon tour?

Not quite enough time, they take a while to do the lotto and it's probably 30-45 minutes drive back to Page.

Some plans: A) do the Antelope Canyon tour first and then drive out to the Ranger station and see if there are left-over permits (this would mean they had fewer than 10 people applying that morning). Depending on the time of year this could work, but especially in spring and fall there are more than 10 and they have the drawing.

Do this if the AC tour is more important to you than the Wave.

B) Stop by the tour office a day ahead and tell them you're going to be a bit late, possibly, since you have to be at the Ranger Station at 8:30. Probably the tour guys are not going to actually be at AC until somewhat later (maybe they do an orientation at the office or similar) and you can still hook up with them a bit later than 9:30.

C) Do the Antelope Canyon part on your own, no point in being in there until 11 AM or so anyway. Check with the Navajo stationed at the entrance to see how this would work, most likely they would simply charge you admission + a fee to drive you in. This is much less expensive than taking the formal tour. This way you can be at the permit station on time in case there's a drawing and also do the AC tour.

Bill_H

I am looking to visit area around Page, AZ. One of the office listed is b/w milepost 21 and 22. How can I locate it on a map?

To clear this up, he's talking about the Ranger Station in Utah that issues permits for the Coyote Buttes area (where the Wave is) when he mentions the office at milepost 21 - 22. (No way you will miss this, it's the only building within miles). Just follow US 89 north out of Page into Utah, then it's 21.5 miles from the Utah border.

InSandy

The Paria ranger station is right by the White House trailhead. You might be able to find that on a map, about 5 miles west of the Cottonwood Wash /Canyon road.

You will not have time to be there for the lottery and back to Page for an Antelope canyon tour at 9:30. I haven't been to a lottery so don't know how long they last, but the drive would be about half an hour. (And if you are coming in the winter then the lottery is held in Kanab about an hour + drive away.)

But the easiest thing to do would be, as a couple have already suggested, to change the time of the Antelope tour. They are offered several times a day and mid day is usually considered the best.

It is not cheaper to just show up at the pay station for Antelope Canyon. You will still be paying for the entrance fee and a guide- and they all charge the same whether you get one at the entrance station or make arrangements ahead of time with a company in Page.

InSandy

Just repeating that the lottery changes from Paria Ranger station to Kanab field office for the winter. THe website states, "mid -November" for this change. So you might want to call to find out for sure where it would be held. It will take longer from Page to get to Kanab so you would need to start earlier so as not to be late.

spirobulldog

And speaking of time. Don't get your Time Zones all screwed up. Arizona and Utah are different times zones for part of the year only. And if you are on an Indian Reservation even that changes. I get it really confused and not sure if it would even matter in November at any of them. I just always try to be really careful about that when in UT, AZ, NV, and Indian reservations.

InSandy

Both Utah and Arizona are in Mountain Standard time.

But since Arizona does not observe Daylight Savings time for that part of the year when Utah does then they are not insync.

But daylight savings ends November 6, so then both UT and AZ will be the same time and all the reservations as well.

hawksbill

To echo, amplify, and clarify some thoughts from above: Do not change the time of your Antelope tour -- just cancel it. If you have any sort of reservation, I guess that means you signed up with one of the tour companies that are located "uptown" in Page. They charge a premium, and in return provide you with nothing, except less time in the Canyon than you would have had otherwise, and often a nasty attitude and a long ride in an uncomfortable and/or unsafe truck. It's a total scam. Just show up at the Canyon a little before you hope to go in, which ideally should be near the middle of the day, and the Navajo guides there will take you in.

Also, as others have noted, all of these areas are in the Mountain Time Zone. Utah observes daylight savings time, but Arizona does not. The Navajo Nation does observe daylight savings time. But to correct one statement above, the Hopi Reservation, which is completely contained within the Navajo Reservation, does not observe daylight savings time. Page was carved out of the Navajo Reservation in 1957, so it's adjacent to but not in the Reservation. Antelope Canyon is outside of Page, and inside of the Reservation, which is why you need a Navajo guide to go in there. In my experience, however, the Navajo guides at the Canyon run on "Arizona Time," rather than "Navajo Time," so if they say you're going on an 11:30 tour, they mean 11:30 "Arizona time."

As InSandy said, after November 6, all of these places will be running on the same clock, and everyone in the whole area can breathe a big sigh of relief until the Spring.

Floridafran

Just want to echo the opinions above regarding the timing of your visit to Antelope Canyon. The closer you can get to when the sun is directly overhead, the better.

As for the Wave. I'd also suggest you call the BLM office. Not only to check on the date the location for issuing the permits changes, but because they're very helpful and can share additional info with you that you might need/want to know ahead of time.

Two beautiful places. Enjoy.

PS Do stop by Horseshoe Bend. Worth the time and effort.

InSandy

Unlike Hawksbill (apparently) our guided tour of Upper Antelope Canyon from Page was very nice. Great guide, interesting info, comfy ride. My understanding is that the charge for a guide is the same whether you get one in Page or pick one up at the entrance (and you can't go in without a guide). I'd be glad to know if that is incorrect. The benefit of having a tour from Page is that you know what time you'll be going so you can plan your day. The benefit of just showing up is that if you don't know what time you'll be arrive you can just show up. I have heard reports that waits at the entrance though can be up to 2 hrs long in the summer. Probably won't have that in Nov.

Bill_H

My understanding is that the charge for a guide is the same whether you get one in Page or pick one up at the entrance (and you can't go in without a guide). I'd be glad to know if that is incorrect.

In the past they (the Navajo who control entry) have handled this many different ways. When I first went up there you could simply drive your own vehicle up to the crack, park a few yards from the canyon and stay all day for a small fee ($10, IIRC), for example. I also used to just "rent" an extension ladder from one of them for $50 and have lower Antelope all to myself early in the spring, for another example (the good old days, before the killer flood and the fixed metal ladders).

More recently they won't let you drive up on your own, what I was told is that an elderly German couple got stuck in the sand on a hot summer day and almost died from heat exhaustion before someone came by and found them, so that became an excuse to not let you drive up the sandy wash on your own and charge more. Then they began ferrying you up in the back of a pick-up on the hour, for around $25 each, but you could stay as many hours as you liked.

So anyway, the entry "rules" change depending on how busy it is and the whim of the Navajo chapter house. It was always much cheaper to get ferried up by a Navajo instead of doing one of those groupie tours from Page, also more flexible in that you could stay longer and pick your time. Also less crowded for those who don't like to be with a group. I can remember it being $25 on your own vs $75 for a shorter tour from Page with more people, for example (dunno what it is today).

I can see why your friendly tour operator in Page would tell you it's the same price, so he can get your business. He could be right but in the past this was never the case.

Dunno what the deal is today, that's why in my earlier post I suggested stopping by a day ahead and chatting with whoever is at the gate and finding out. November is usually so dead that there might not even be someone manning the gate, in which case you might have to go with a Page tour.

InSandy

Interesting stuff Bill, back in the day eh ! Mom still has a postcard on her fridge from when it was called "Corkscrew Canyon".

>

Our tour from Page was $6 entry fee and $20 guide fee per person a little over a year ago.
From all reports (none of them from the guide service in Page, but from fellow traveler reports), it is the same price at the gate.

I found this website that appears to be who you will use if you show up without a guide at the entrance: http://navajotours.com/index.shtml

hawksbill

My comments about Antelope are based on what I experienced and was told during my visit last week. However, I know that some Navaio committee meets frequently to assess and revise the policy, so it may change by November. It may even have changed already. Also, the whole operation is pretty disorganized, and there seem to be informal changes that are made on a moment-to-moment basis, depending upon how busy things are, and possibly upon whom one knows or pays off. Frankly, there are some slightly shady characters involved in these tours.

Here's my understanding:

To get into the Upper Canyon, if you haven't booked a tour with an uptown guide, you drive to the parking lot, and pay a $6 Navajo Parks day use fee at the booth as you enter. You then park and walk over to the little ticket house, where you can indicate whether you want to go on a standard tour (1.5 hours, $20), or a "photographic tour," which lasts two hours, and costs $40 (n.b. in either case, only cash is accepted). I'm not sure if there there's a fixed schedule for how often the tours depart. They probably just take a group out when they have a lot of people waiting. I only waited about 5-10 minutes. When your time comes, a dispatcher comes over and calls out the names of people chosen to go on the next tour. The pack you onto the back of a pickup truck (13 of us in my case, plus one more in the cab). You then hang on while they drive you the several miles to the canyon entrance. You're not allowed to drive yourself.

I think the extra fee for the photographic tour not only buys you a longer tour, but also your tour guide is supposed to clear out various parts of the canyon so that you can take unobstructed photos, and even give advice about photographic techniques. I did a photo tour. It was indeed longer, but my guide didn't know anything in particular about photography, and he didn't offer any photographic tips. In contrast, many of the "non-photo" tour guides did offer photographic tips (and many of those tips were totally wrong). My guide did occasionally herd other tourists away from various parts of the canyon so that we could photograph them, but I don't think he did this any more than some of the "non-photo" tour guides. Many of the guides were extremely obnoxious toward their own group members, or members of other groups, and open confrontations were common in the canyon. One's ability to get unobstructed views of parts of the canyon was basically dependent on the relative dominance levels of the various tour guides who were in there bossing people around. I was told that, during the high season, about 8,000-10,000 visitors a day pass through the Upper Canyon.

If you book an uptown tour, you'll meet your tour guide in town, instead of at the parking lot, and your guide will drive you straight to the canyon entrance (bypassing the parking lot). His or her vehicle may be considerably more comfortable than the ones at the parking lot, or considerably less so. I believe you will still sign up for either a 1.5 hour tour or a 2 hour "photography" tour, but with an uptown tour guide, the clock starts ticking as soon as you get on the vehicle. It's maybe a 15 minute drive each way, so you'll lose about 30 minutes of canyon time if you book an uptown tour. With the uptown tour, you'll pay a fee that includes the Navajo Parks fee, plus the usual tour fee, plus some premium that the tour guide decides to charge you. I suppose some tour guides are better than others, and maybe someone here can recommend a really good one. But the ones I saw were certainly nothing special, and both worth paying a premium and sacrificing canyon time. Don't necessarily expect honesty in advertising -- I just saw a web site from an uptown guide who promised to clear out the whole Upper Canyon for his or her "photography tours," allowing free access to the canyon for the two hours in the middle of the day, and that simply is not going to happen.

The Lower Canyon has entirely different procedures. It's lesser known, and in my opinion substantially less spectacular (but still really incredible). At the Lower Canyon, the entrance is right next to the parking lot and ticket booth, so you can just walk over. You need to pay the $6 Navajo Parks Day Use fee, unless you've already paid it at the Upper Canyon or some other Navajo park that day. You also need to pay $20. There are no "photography tours" at the Lower Canyon, but there are still two options, for photographers and non-photographers respectively. Non-photographers go on a tour with one of the guides, whereas photographers (defined as people who are taking photos with a tripod and an SLR camera) can purchase a photo pass and have unrestricted access to the canyon, for the same amount of time, but without a tour guide. This makes some sense, because spaces are much more confined in parts of the Lower Canyon, and it wouldn't be possible to have photographers lined up in rows as they do in the Upper Canyon. Either way, it's $20 at the Lower Canyon. I'm not sure if there are any uptown tour guides doing tours of the Lower Canyon. I don't think I saw any.

InSandy

The fact that there are way too many people all wanting to take the same photo that you can buy back in town may in fact be the reason there is not peace and quiet in the canyon. I'm glad we were there when there were few people and we went on an early tour so that I could enjoy the canyon rather than fight for room with other people. I took a camera, but bought the photo back in town.

emalloy

Mostly what you want in upper antelope canyon is a sunny day. We were there in the afternoon, around 3 ish I think and got great pictures with a little point and shoot. Some are at www.flickr.com/photos/emalloy2009/sets in the 2008 set to give you an idea. We went to the parking lot and paid our fee and went with just one other couple in our truck although the truck before us had a lot of people, when we waited for them to clear an area we had no people interference.