Traveling by car this Summer, aka The Demise of the Airline Industry
May 6th, 2003, 06:33 PM
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Traveling by car this Summer, aka The Demise of the Airline Industry
The Travel Industry Association says over 80% of America has travel plans this summer, but the majority have planned trips within 1000 miles of their homes and by car. I live in Atlanta and that is exactly our plans. We were supposed to go to Canada but economics and other concerns have changed those plans. Believe it or not! we are going to Disney World this summer by car. So America were are you from and what are your plans? Will this cause fallout in the airline industry?
May 6th, 2003, 06:50 PM
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Not changing a thing. We are from New England and visited the Southwest last year. We fell in love with the landscape, and the climate, and the people we met were quite nice as well and are returning in June. Just counting the days...
May 6th, 2003, 07:21 PM
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taking a plane is a big hassle these days.
Say you live in a metropolis, you still have to get TO the airport, probably about an hour ride in a taxi, shuttle, friend's car.
Then you have to get to the airport 1-2 hours early.
Then when you arrive at your destination, you have to wait 30-60 minutes for baggage claim (forget about carryon anymore, I'm a superlight packer and am forced to check since 9/11).
You have about another hour commute to where ever you're staying.
Repeat on the way back, and you've used up TEN HOURS doing nothing, and that's not including the time taxiing the runway, waiting for clearance to take off, flight attendants reseating people, etc etc. Add in the actual time in the air.
With those same ten hours, you could have driven about 600 miles, seen some nice scenery, done some shopping, crossed state lines, eaten food not available in your area, played license state games, listened to books on tape, a ball game on the radio, taken a nap (hopefully someone drove).
The Great American Roadtrip is on the way back.
Say you live in a metropolis, you still have to get TO the airport, probably about an hour ride in a taxi, shuttle, friend's car.
Then you have to get to the airport 1-2 hours early.
Then when you arrive at your destination, you have to wait 30-60 minutes for baggage claim (forget about carryon anymore, I'm a superlight packer and am forced to check since 9/11).
You have about another hour commute to where ever you're staying.
Repeat on the way back, and you've used up TEN HOURS doing nothing, and that's not including the time taxiing the runway, waiting for clearance to take off, flight attendants reseating people, etc etc. Add in the actual time in the air.
With those same ten hours, you could have driven about 600 miles, seen some nice scenery, done some shopping, crossed state lines, eaten food not available in your area, played license state games, listened to books on tape, a ball game on the radio, taken a nap (hopefully someone drove).
The Great American Roadtrip is on the way back.
May 6th, 2003, 07:51 PM
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I'm not so convinced that this is some death knell for the airlines. Does that 80% road-trip figure represent an increase over the normal historical rate? The road trip is an American institution. It's one I don't choose personally-- my rule is: Over 200 miles, I'm flying. My summer plans are unchanged (friends and fun in south Florida July 4th!), and I'm flying!!
Business travel will continue at a diminished rate. As companies hold down on these kind of discretionary costs, and as client servicing alternatives arise (WebEx has been wonderful in my business-- financial software), businesspeople won't have to get as much "face time" with clients.
Business travel will continue at a diminished rate. As companies hold down on these kind of discretionary costs, and as client servicing alternatives arise (WebEx has been wonderful in my business-- financial software), businesspeople won't have to get as much "face time" with clients.
May 6th, 2003, 07:55 PM
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Did you notice that AMR (American Airlines parent company) stock rose 14% today?
Did you notice how much British Airways went up (decent revenues in April despite SARS and Iraq)?
The entire industry received an upgrade today from at least two analysts.
The airlines have taken a beating, no doubt. But the worst is likely behind them. Slow and meandering path upward from here, with occasional bumps to be expected.
Most airlines make most of their money from business travel.
Don't think for a second that United, Delta, American and even Southwest could stay afloat if they had to subsist on low profit leisure travel fares.
Did you notice how much British Airways went up (decent revenues in April despite SARS and Iraq)?
The entire industry received an upgrade today from at least two analysts.
The airlines have taken a beating, no doubt. But the worst is likely behind them. Slow and meandering path upward from here, with occasional bumps to be expected.
Most airlines make most of their money from business travel.
Don't think for a second that United, Delta, American and even Southwest could stay afloat if they had to subsist on low profit leisure travel fares.
May 7th, 2003, 05:29 AM
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would business travellers take a flight if they can drive there in the same amount of time?
what about Amtrak?
I read somewhere about new luxury coach services in the MidWest to take business travellers from, say Cleveland to Chicago so they don't have to suffer through airport security.
It will be interesting to see adjustments airlines make because of these changes.
what about Amtrak?
I read somewhere about new luxury coach services in the MidWest to take business travellers from, say Cleveland to Chicago so they don't have to suffer through airport security.
It will be interesting to see adjustments airlines make because of these changes.
May 7th, 2003, 05:48 AM
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I can tell you from firsthand experience that one form of business travel that was lucrative for the airlines is now way down: travel to conferences and conventions.
The conference business has been hurting since 9/11, and as that business goes, so goes the airline industry.
I'm not an expert in investing, but I don't think short-term increases are any indicator of the health of Am. Airlines. Wall Street tends to get giddy anytime a company lays off a lot of people or cuts salaries.
Bottom line: Air travel is a hassle these days; it takes longer and it's less convenient. And business and vacation travelers will go for other choices when they have them.
The conference business has been hurting since 9/11, and as that business goes, so goes the airline industry.
I'm not an expert in investing, but I don't think short-term increases are any indicator of the health of Am. Airlines. Wall Street tends to get giddy anytime a company lays off a lot of people or cuts salaries.
Bottom line: Air travel is a hassle these days; it takes longer and it's less convenient. And business and vacation travelers will go for other choices when they have them.
May 7th, 2003, 06:31 AM
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"Bottom line: Air travel is a hassle these days; it takes longer and it's less convenient".
Welcome to the world.
European travel, Middle Eastern travel has been this way for many, many years.
Americans have simply been spoiled by lack of exposure to terrorism in the past. One of the things Bin Laden wanted to accomplish on 9/11 was to make American quality of life poorer. He succeeded on many levels. And air travel hassles are one example.
It's a fact of life, and business travellers will have to deal with it whether they want to or not.
The world is changing and you can either accept that, suck it up, and move on, or you can bellyache and whine and let the world pass you by. Your choice.
Welcome to the world.
European travel, Middle Eastern travel has been this way for many, many years.
Americans have simply been spoiled by lack of exposure to terrorism in the past. One of the things Bin Laden wanted to accomplish on 9/11 was to make American quality of life poorer. He succeeded on many levels. And air travel hassles are one example.
It's a fact of life, and business travellers will have to deal with it whether they want to or not.
The world is changing and you can either accept that, suck it up, and move on, or you can bellyache and whine and let the world pass you by. Your choice.
May 7th, 2003, 06:36 AM
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We have traveled by air several times since 9/11, but this summer, we have planned a road trip, from New Jersey, through Savannah and on to Orlando. We haven't taken a long road trip in some time, and thought it would be fun, plus we have a leased Jaguar that we will be turning in next fall with very low mileage. Looking forward to it!
May 7th, 2003, 06:43 AM
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"would business travellers take a flight if they can drive there in the same amount of time?"
That has always been debated... not just since 9/11.
I do not like to drive 4 hours so I will fly. Sure, it still takes 3 hours when you factor in all the hassle but at least I don't worry about falling asleep on the road or getting in a wreck along the crappy highway between Dallas and Austin.
I travel every week and I am in the travel industry, to boot.
And BTW... Leisure travel has a HUGE impact on the health of the airline industry.
I don't know where we are headed in the industry but I'll be taking a plane there...!
That has always been debated... not just since 9/11.
I do not like to drive 4 hours so I will fly. Sure, it still takes 3 hours when you factor in all the hassle but at least I don't worry about falling asleep on the road or getting in a wreck along the crappy highway between Dallas and Austin.
I travel every week and I am in the travel industry, to boot.
And BTW... Leisure travel has a HUGE impact on the health of the airline industry.
I don't know where we are headed in the industry but I'll be taking a plane there...!
May 7th, 2003, 07:20 AM
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I'm flying in a couple of weeks across the country. The airfare was just under $200 for the roundtrip ticket including taxes. I looked at the flights last week and a couple of segments are almost a complete sellout (2 middle seats on one, 3 on another). Though there might be less flights than before, the planes are full.
There's no way in the world I could drive to the west coast for $200.
This trip was planned last November when all the news was doom and gloom over the economy.
There's no way in the world I could drive to the west coast for $200.
This trip was planned last November when all the news was doom and gloom over the economy.
May 7th, 2003, 08:00 AM
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When I fly Tues/Weds/Thurs the planes tend to be 1/3 to 2/3 full... on the other days they are quite full.
Just as an FYI... you cannot tell what the flight load is by looking at seat maps. I can see the actual load data and most of the time it is WAY off. Believe it or not, many people fail to reserve a seat and there is a huge chunk of seats that are blocked. To you they just look occupied. I can see the difference. Some plane will be oversold and still have seat assignments available.
Just as an FYI... you cannot tell what the flight load is by looking at seat maps. I can see the actual load data and most of the time it is WAY off. Believe it or not, many people fail to reserve a seat and there is a huge chunk of seats that are blocked. To you they just look occupied. I can see the difference. Some plane will be oversold and still have seat assignments available.
May 7th, 2003, 08:44 AM
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ANGELENO,
Here is my take on how far I could get in 10 hours of flying:
Leave my house and drive to Tampa Int - 1 hour
Arrive 1 hour before flight
Flight from TPA-DFW 2.5 hours
Connection time - .5-1 hour
Flight from DFW-SEA - 4 hours
In the hotel -1 hour
So, it's 10-10.5 hours for me to leave my little paradise on Siesta Key, Florida, and start to enjoy Seattle same day, little tired, maybe, but not as much as 10 hours of driving, and the best part - the cost somewhere between $200-$300 round trip. And I could do a stayover in Dallas or Chicago on the way back, if I feel like it. Where would I be if I drove for 10 hours from my house - about 2 hours away from reaching New Orleans and another 45 hours to go to Seattle, and that's only one way.
And I would love to see you drive to Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, South Anerica, even Central America, Caribbean Islands, etc...etc...
So please don't use extremes to make your point - After all the 10 hours of driving would get me to New Orleans at best, so if I compare that, it would take me no more than 4 hours to be in the NO hotel and actually ready to enjoy the sights, sounds and smells of the party city, while you would still have 6 hours to go.
Enjoy your driving, for me, if it's more than 2-3 hours, I'm flying!!!
Here is my take on how far I could get in 10 hours of flying:
Leave my house and drive to Tampa Int - 1 hour
Arrive 1 hour before flight
Flight from TPA-DFW 2.5 hours
Connection time - .5-1 hour
Flight from DFW-SEA - 4 hours
In the hotel -1 hour
So, it's 10-10.5 hours for me to leave my little paradise on Siesta Key, Florida, and start to enjoy Seattle same day, little tired, maybe, but not as much as 10 hours of driving, and the best part - the cost somewhere between $200-$300 round trip. And I could do a stayover in Dallas or Chicago on the way back, if I feel like it. Where would I be if I drove for 10 hours from my house - about 2 hours away from reaching New Orleans and another 45 hours to go to Seattle, and that's only one way.
And I would love to see you drive to Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, South Anerica, even Central America, Caribbean Islands, etc...etc...
So please don't use extremes to make your point - After all the 10 hours of driving would get me to New Orleans at best, so if I compare that, it would take me no more than 4 hours to be in the NO hotel and actually ready to enjoy the sights, sounds and smells of the party city, while you would still have 6 hours to go.
Enjoy your driving, for me, if it's more than 2-3 hours, I'm flying!!!
May 7th, 2003, 08:59 AM
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I will not fly if after factoring in wait times & to/from airport times could be there in the same amount of time. However, if I can go some way other than driving myself, I'll choose that. At least someone else can worry about driving while I read, sleep, or just gaze out the window.
After the shutdown of the airways on 9/11/2001 you'd think we'd do more with other modes of travel, ESPECIALLY rail.
If someone like Greyhound offered a "business class" intercity bus service - maybe using airports or better hotels for stations, maybe a wider seat (2 on one side of aisle, 3 on the other) ... would customers appear?
After the shutdown of the airways on 9/11/2001 you'd think we'd do more with other modes of travel, ESPECIALLY rail.
If someone like Greyhound offered a "business class" intercity bus service - maybe using airports or better hotels for stations, maybe a wider seat (2 on one side of aisle, 3 on the other) ... would customers appear?
May 7th, 2003, 09:10 AM
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I think we're going to see some of the airlines try to mimic Southwest and abandon the hub and spoke system for demand-driven point-to-point flights out of secondary, underserved markets.
High-speed passenger rail would be a nice alternative--especially the systems that provide space for your cars so that you're not stranded at your destination. For whatever reason, however, the federal government seems willing to put large amounts of tax revenue into subsidizing roads and airport facilities, but not rail. I don't know why, but anybody whose traveled by rail in Europe knows how great it can be.
High-speed passenger rail would be a nice alternative--especially the systems that provide space for your cars so that you're not stranded at your destination. For whatever reason, however, the federal government seems willing to put large amounts of tax revenue into subsidizing roads and airport facilities, but not rail. I don't know why, but anybody whose traveled by rail in Europe knows how great it can be.
May 7th, 2003, 09:11 AM
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We do most of our traveling for family leisure by car. We live in Okla and can be in the Colorado Rockies in 12 hours and the beaches of the Florida Panhandle in 14 hours. We have four children, only one still at home, and we have taken most all of our vacations by car due to cost of airfare for six people. We've been to Washington DC, Orlando, San Antonio, Branson and numerous other places when the kids were younger. The only time we flew as a family was a cruise out of Miami.
If it's just me and spouse or one child, then I might fly if I can't drive it in six to eight hours. However, we're going to Minneapolis this month and I checked into airfares. At best it's $250.00 each then rental car expenses. I figured for the three of us we'd spend $1,000.00 to fly. Driving will cost a fraction of that, another 12 hour trip, but it's a part of the USA we've never seen before!
I hate the hassle and loss of control you get with flying; cancelled flights, sitting on the runway waiting for weather delays, over booked flights, etc. I like being able to control when I leave, when I stop, etc.
If it's just me and spouse or one child, then I might fly if I can't drive it in six to eight hours. However, we're going to Minneapolis this month and I checked into airfares. At best it's $250.00 each then rental car expenses. I figured for the three of us we'd spend $1,000.00 to fly. Driving will cost a fraction of that, another 12 hour trip, but it's a part of the USA we've never seen before!
I hate the hassle and loss of control you get with flying; cancelled flights, sitting on the runway waiting for weather delays, over booked flights, etc. I like being able to control when I leave, when I stop, etc.
