sunny16

"And to the poster who says having been adopted is "baggage"...think about how that would make a person feel if that was said about them!"

OWJ, I agree with your point, but I think beachbum got confused and was talking about kids who are adopted when they are 10 years old. Or maybe not...it was an odd comment, but as an adopted person I didn't find it as offensive as some of the stuff I've heard...

OneWanderingJew

Sunny--Beachbum's comment was,"Adopted kids of any age come with lots of baggage."

I disagree w/him. I know that some adoptees may feel like that, but I know biol. kids who have had a lot of baggage in their lives and some adopted kids too--unrelated to the adoption.

I think that statement was unfair to all in the adoption triad. It made me sad as a potential adoptive parent and I'd hate for my child to internalize something like that. I also think that was a tough comment for a birthparent to hear if adoption was what they chose as the best thing for their child.

I won't disagree w/you that the older adoptees usually have issues. Those kids have gone through more than many adults and the parents who choose to adopt an older child know that.

Surfergirl

Stephanie and Diana,
The "selfish" and "self-centered" comments did NOT relate to the issue of whether or not to have kids. I would never say that, because having kids or not having kids is purely a matter of choice. In fact I think a lot of people should not have kids, but that's not up to me.

Perhaps I didn't articulate it as well as I could have, or you misunderstood my point. Let me try again. A person is not selfish or self-centered because they do not choose to have children. Rather, to the extent they have this type of personality (the "world revolves around me" mentality), that mentality generally gets knocked out of them when they have kids by default to the new kid on the block. Capiche?

explain to me how you can be selfish and self-centered when a child hasn't ever been created? if you are selfish it has to be directly toward another living/breathing person. being childless is a lifestyle choice, it doesn't make you a wicked person nor does having children make you saintly. Please.

sunny16

OWJ - I understand. Kudos to you for thinking about adopting!

snowrooster

I would never refer to a couple who decided not to have children as selfish. I think it is very brave to make the decision that best suits you even if it does go against societal expectations. However when a certain poster has been known to refer to those of us w/children as "breeders" one has to wonder if there are other issues at hand.

Orcas

We adopted our two children as infants and they are now teens. Our view of adoption, and of the 'nature versus nurture' debate has changed as we have watched our children grow up and also become acquainted with many other families with children who were adopted. We have found the impact of genetics more profound than we had expected. While I also observe that sometimes children living with their biological parents seem quite different than their parents, our observations are that differences are more common between adopted children and their parents. Personality and intellect are heavily influenced by genetics, and probably some talents, as well. There is also the very fact of adoption which some children struggle with, even if adopted as an infant. Some adopted children feel they don't "fit in" (as do some birth children, of course), or are missing a piece to the puzzle about their identity and search to fill some void.
Well, this isn't an adoption forum and I won't go on and on. I don't know what beachbum wrote. It has either been deleted or it is hiding in this very, very long thread, but I do get what s/he might have been trying to say. When you adopt a child, you are a parent as much as when you birth a child, but some of the issues in childrearing that emerge will be different. travel_addict is very thoughtfully considering having children and adoption should be given no less thoughtful consideration.

adnil1962

I am in the same boat - age 42 and trying to make the baby decision. I recently took a class at the Cambridge Center for adult education called "Making the Baby Decsion." I learned a few things.

If you are 40/60 70/30 or 80/20 about whether to have a child, that is a decsion. You are never going to be 100% sure.

Either way you will have a good life. Each choice will give you a very different life. Either way you will have some regrets. Each choice is okay. The decision is personal. What your friends and family will think of your decision shouldn't matter.

When your two year old is laying on the floor in the supermarket kicking and screaming, you will think "why did I do this?"

When your best friend has her first grandchild and you realize that you never will have one, you will wish you had kids.

They suggested we keep a journal of thoughts, pros/cons. Put the pros in one color and the cons in another. You will start to see one color dominating the page. That's your decision.

Also, your happiness level when you are old will have nothing to do with whether or not you had children. Happiness is based on your relationship with your spouse and the relationships you have with close friends. Kids have their own lives and even if they are speaking to you will only fill up a small part of your life.

Think as though you are 80 years old and on your death bed looking back on your life - what are the things you remember - having kids or world travel?

I can't remember the author but there is an out of print book called "making the baby decsion" that I picked up at the library. There were several others as well but I found that one to be the most insightful.

By the way we opted to stay child free and travel. Will I have some regrets, sure I will, but I have lots of great nieces and nephews, 3 step children who visit and I volunteer with kids.

seetheworld

"Think as though you are 80 years old and on your death bed looking back on your life - what are the things you remember - having kids or world travel?"

What about traveling the world with kids? Was that not an option?

Sounds like an interesting course. Just surprised that wasn't an option to consider.

caribtraveler

"When your two year old is laying on the floor in the supermarket kicking and screaming, you will think "why did I do this?"

Hmmmm that's not what I think. "Wait till we get home" is more like it.

JAGIRL

Think as though you are 80 years old and on your death bed looking back on your life - what are the things you remember - having kids or world travel?"

I wonder what ths son of sam's mom thinks...

Orcas

My sister met Ted Bundy's Mom and she thought he was innocent, even as he was executed.

wtm003

Caribtraveler, I'm cracking up. "Wait till we get home" is usually my first thought.

While I respect the decision to not have children, I find the flippant comments such as "why did I do this" or "do any of you wished you had traveled more instead of having children" and finally "they say having an animal first really helps you to prepare for having children" to be incredibly stupid and naive.

karens

I think adnil's post makes some interesting and valid points.

I don't think having kids and world travel are either/or. Maybe you can't do any world travel when your kids are young, but you can when they are older (and you really can when they are a lot older). If you have a wonderful parent/family member or babysitter - you can get away somewhere when they are really young.

Believe me, my younger son has done so many embarrasing things that would make a supermarket tantrum look tame. Never have they made me wish I didn't have him. (I have wished he wouldn't do what he does, or that it would be easier, but not that I regretted him). We have a sense of humor about it (and he has a wonderful sense of humor that makes everyone laugh). No child is "perfect" in every way.

Dreamer2

I love the advice Adnil related about the color coded journal. This is such a long post, and I'm jumping in so far to the end, but I cannot imagine having a child if I wasn't 100% into the idea. If you start at 60/40, and have those bad days, where does that put you?! I'm being facetious, of course, but really, this is not a decision you make for the benefit of others. If you are pushing 40 and are not having baby regret or maternal instincts, what makes you think you need to have a child? Only you and your husband can decide, and as Adnil said, there will be days you will question your decision no matter what path you choose. But do choose on your own. It's not up to your doctor, your parents, or a bunch of us anonymous posters. That's the unsolicited advice, now to your actual questions:

1. Possible, but probably won't happen unless you: 1. have lots of money, 2. have only one child, 3. that child has no health issues.

2. I'd say once they are school aged. (potty trained, can sit still and read or play quiet games for extended times, can comprehend conceptual ideas to enjoy art, history, etc.

3. There is absolutely no comparison. That reminds me of someone who once told me: I never thought I could love anything as much as my dog. And then I had my kid and realized my dog hardly mattered any more.

To each his own. Good luck with your decision.

girlonthego

Wow!Did you get a lot of responses!! I guess there are many opinions on this subject...too many for me to read through. I had my kids fairly young so they are already very good at traveling. We started with them as infants and traveled to Hawaii when one was just over a year old.
It sounds as if you are undecided whether to have kids or not in general?
It is a big decision and will change your life dramatically. As a women, you will make the most changes. (usually)
I do not regret having kids at all. I wish we had the money to travel before the kids came along. We had about 5 years before they came and we hardly went anywhere for lack of funds. Oh well, we are making up for it now and they come with us!
Having kids is a decision that goes way beyond the travel aspect. Your family will always hound you about stuff like having kids. Your doctor has some good advice about starting sooner rather than later. Stop listening to everyone else. Are you both willing to make sacrafices and changes for a child? If not, than don't do it. You can always adopt later if you get the urge and you are worried about age. There are millions of kids in the world without parents.
But I will say, being a parent is the most rewarding and wonderful part of my life.

Dreamer2

We must have been posting at the same time. I really agree with you, Karens and WTM003.

obxgirl

>>I wonder what ths son of sam's mom thinks...<<

I doubt she thinks "I wish I'd travelled more."

TheWeasel

I don't think this is an issue of lying on your deathbed, debating whether you should have had kids or travelled more. That way of thinking seems to presume that everyone is obligated and/or destined to have children, and those that don't are somehow wrong (or some other negative word). And it seems to me that it's just another form of pressure, similar to what OP is hearing from her family and doctor, telling her she really, really should have children because that's what she's supposed to do.

Have children if you really want to, and you'll figure out to work in travel, work, and everything else. Or maybe that stuff won't seem as important anymore. But make the decision based on desire, not on other people telling you it's your destiny and how wonderful and fulfilled they feel, because it's not the same for everyone.

Stephanie

I believe the only reason the starter of this thread is getting advice from the doc is that it is better to have children when your ova isn't 40 and older, less chance of birth defects. why not freeze some ovum and make the decision later?

By the way is your clock really ticking or is it that your parents want to be grandparents really bad?

The poster above me must have not been asleep in sociology class. Many life decisions are made for us by society -it takes a non-conformist to make the best decision for their own individual life.

kswl

" When your two year old is laying on the floor in the supermarket kicking and screaming, you will think 'why did I do this?'"


Not me. If anyone was watching or listening, I would try calmly tell the child, "Hush! People are going to think you're a two-year-old!"