Tour participant balking at trip cancellation penalty
Feb 26th, 2007, 12:57 PM
#42
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I've noted that many apartment rentals which have a severe cancellation penalty may offer a full refund if they do in fact find a new renter for the cancelled period. I think that is a worthwhile good will gesture.
Since you have filled the slot, I'm not sure why you wouldn't refund the money of the person who cancelled -- or at least most of it. Did it cost you for special advertising to find a replacement?
Since you have filled the slot, I'm not sure why you wouldn't refund the money of the person who cancelled -- or at least most of it. Did it cost you for special advertising to find a replacement?
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:00 PM
#43
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The moral of this story may be that it is never smart to buy your travel insurance from the tour operator. If the unlucky cancelling traveler had purchased her insurance from an independent travel insurance company, such as can be found through insuremytrip.com and similar organizations, we might not be having this discussion today.
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:02 PM
#44
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Denise,
You are certainly not defrauding anyone; your cancellation policy was clearly stated. But the fact that the price includes travel insurance suggests that cancellation fo rmedical reasons would be covered by the insurance.
Why don't you first determine how much of the $1200 will be covered by insurance? I should think the airfare at least should be. Tell her to file a claim and see how much is paid. Then, because you found a replacement and aren't really "out" anaything, refund the balance of her $1200, less a small cancellation fee (say $100) for your trouble.
You seem to be most concerned about "setting a precendent" by refunding her money. If you are just starting out in this business, the "precedent" you want to set is being fair. In the internet age, word gets around.
You are certainly not defrauding anyone; your cancellation policy was clearly stated. But the fact that the price includes travel insurance suggests that cancellation fo rmedical reasons would be covered by the insurance.
Why don't you first determine how much of the $1200 will be covered by insurance? I should think the airfare at least should be. Tell her to file a claim and see how much is paid. Then, because you found a replacement and aren't really "out" anaything, refund the balance of her $1200, less a small cancellation fee (say $100) for your trouble.
You seem to be most concerned about "setting a precendent" by refunding her money. If you are just starting out in this business, the "precedent" you want to set is being fair. In the internet age, word gets around.
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:05 PM
#45
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Although she definitely has a bonafide medical emergency and the documentation to back it up, I don't think she wants to file a claim. If she filed a claim, the insurance company looks at what my cancellation policy was, meaning she would only get 75% back - I guess that's why she would rather I refund her $1200 directly.
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I would pursue the insurance option and assist her in making the claim.
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I would pursue the insurance option and assist her in making the claim.
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:06 PM
#46
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I'm having a hard time figuring out what was paid for and what wasn't.
It seems like the person who cancelled paid a hotel deposit, airfare, and travel insurance.
(1) Travel Insurance. Whether the insurance will pay for 75% of the cost or not is between the insurance company and the traveller. It seems like your (or more appropriately, the travel agent's) involvement is with the premium money. If the travel agent held on to the premium, I think it should be refunded since the traveller didn't get the benefit of paying the premium (no insurance was actually purchased on her behalf). If the premium WAS paid to the insurance company already, I think it is reasonable that she NOT get the premium back (nobody I know gets refunds of insurance premiums, especially when they cancel a trip and need the insurance to pay out).
(2) hotel deposit. Since the group found a replacement, I don't see why the traveller should not get her deposit back.
(3) Airfare. Since the group found a replacement, I don't see why the traveller should not get her airfare back - less the $50 or whatever amount the airline charges as a result of the change.
That would be my vote if this thing turned into litigation and I was on the jury.
But for purposes of keeping happy business relations, it may not matter what is "fair."
Edited to add: What I said above is asuming she doesn't get insurance to reimburse her. If insurance does pay, there is no reason for a person to get double recovery. But if insurance doesn't pay - or doesn't pay the full amount - I think the air/hotel should be refunded, less any amount the hotel/airline penalized the group or the insurance paid out.
It seems like the person who cancelled paid a hotel deposit, airfare, and travel insurance.
(1) Travel Insurance. Whether the insurance will pay for 75% of the cost or not is between the insurance company and the traveller. It seems like your (or more appropriately, the travel agent's) involvement is with the premium money. If the travel agent held on to the premium, I think it should be refunded since the traveller didn't get the benefit of paying the premium (no insurance was actually purchased on her behalf). If the premium WAS paid to the insurance company already, I think it is reasonable that she NOT get the premium back (nobody I know gets refunds of insurance premiums, especially when they cancel a trip and need the insurance to pay out).
(2) hotel deposit. Since the group found a replacement, I don't see why the traveller should not get her deposit back.
(3) Airfare. Since the group found a replacement, I don't see why the traveller should not get her airfare back - less the $50 or whatever amount the airline charges as a result of the change.
That would be my vote if this thing turned into litigation and I was on the jury.
But for purposes of keeping happy business relations, it may not matter what is "fair."
Edited to add: What I said above is asuming she doesn't get insurance to reimburse her. If insurance does pay, there is no reason for a person to get double recovery. But if insurance doesn't pay - or doesn't pay the full amount - I think the air/hotel should be refunded, less any amount the hotel/airline penalized the group or the insurance paid out.
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:08 PM
#48
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I am here to learn, not to be judged or criticized.
I realize I came across as believing that I was "right", but that was wrong - I'm here looking for help, information, etc.
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If you think you are correct, then why are you asking us?
I realize I came across as believing that I was "right", but that was wrong - I'm here looking for help, information, etc.
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If you think you are correct, then why are you asking us?
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:15 PM
#49
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Again, as a good faith gesture, you should give the poor woman a refund. You came to this forum for opinions. We're all travelers, and wish to be treated fairly. You filled the vacant spot. Deduct whatever costs were incurred trying to find a replacement, if any. Take nothing for "pain & suffering"......and enjoy your trip. Chalk it up to "the cost of doing business".
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:15 PM
#50
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grammar
Well, I learned one thing from this. I DEFINITELY won't be taking any small group tours.
The stance, and the reasoning behind it, are both disturbing.
You are out NOTHING - or virtually nothing. Let the poor woman who had to cancel the trip due to emergency surgery have her money back. Lord have mercy...
Well, I learned one thing from this. I DEFINITELY won't be taking any small group tours.
The stance, and the reasoning behind it, are both disturbing.
You are out NOTHING - or virtually nothing. Let the poor woman who had to cancel the trip due to emergency surgery have her money back. Lord have mercy...
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:15 PM
#51
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<It seems like the person who cancelled paid a hotel deposit, airfare, and travel insurance.>
****The person who cancelled paid an airfare deposit; hotel deposit; balance due on airfare plus her add-on airfare to ATL; and travel insurance.
<(1) Travel Insurance. Whether the insurance will pay for 75% of the cost or not is between the insurance company and the traveller. It seems like your (or more appropriately, the travel agent's) involvement is with the premium money. If the travel agent held on to the premium, I think it should be refunded since the traveller didn't get the benefit of paying the premium (no insurance was actually purchased on her behalf). If the premium WAS paid to the insurance company already, I think it is reasonable that she NOT get the premium back (nobody I know gets refunds of insurance premiums, especially when they cancel a trip and need the insurance to pay out).>
****The premium HAS been paid to the Travel Insurance Company.
(
****The person who cancelled paid an airfare deposit; hotel deposit; balance due on airfare plus her add-on airfare to ATL; and travel insurance.
<(1) Travel Insurance. Whether the insurance will pay for 75% of the cost or not is between the insurance company and the traveller. It seems like your (or more appropriately, the travel agent's) involvement is with the premium money. If the travel agent held on to the premium, I think it should be refunded since the traveller didn't get the benefit of paying the premium (no insurance was actually purchased on her behalf). If the premium WAS paid to the insurance company already, I think it is reasonable that she NOT get the premium back (nobody I know gets refunds of insurance premiums, especially when they cancel a trip and need the insurance to pay out).>
****The premium HAS been paid to the Travel Insurance Company.
(
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:19 PM
#52
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The tour price does not include Travel Insurance - Travel Insurance was optional; in fact, one tour member declined to purchase it.
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You are certainly not defrauding anyone; your cancellation policy was clearly stated. But the fact that the price includes travel insurance suggests that cancellation for medical reasons would be covered by the insurance.
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You are certainly not defrauding anyone; your cancellation policy was clearly stated. But the fact that the price includes travel insurance suggests that cancellation for medical reasons would be covered by the insurance.
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:33 PM
#54
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I have just emailed my traveler that we will be sending her a refund check minus $50 for the Delta name change, $165 Travel Insurance, and $10.36 in costs incurred.
Are we obligated to notify the Travel Insurance Company about our refund?
Are we obligated to notify the Travel Insurance Company about our refund?
Feb 26th, 2007, 01:42 PM
#56
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Thank you for doing the right thing. As others have pointed out, it will be returned in spades in the future if you decide to continue these tours as a business. It's very hard to recover after bad press. (Not to mention karma).
Feb 26th, 2007, 02:23 PM
#58
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I think you did the right thing. It will only help your business. One last word of advice. As the group has been in contact with one another, it is possible that private emails have been sent between the cancellation person and other members of the tour group.
IF the subject comes up regarding the situation with the other members, play it calm and cool. Just tell them that there was a delay in the refund because you had to work out what had been paid, what was refunded/reimbursed, etc. Don't say anything negative about the situation or make comments other than that you understand her circumstance and wanted to do what you could to help.
As you can see here, people will form opinions quickly based on a simple comment, so keep what you say about it very professional and show sympathy towards the cancelled person - that will help build up an image that you are a caring small business.
IF the subject comes up regarding the situation with the other members, play it calm and cool. Just tell them that there was a delay in the refund because you had to work out what had been paid, what was refunded/reimbursed, etc. Don't say anything negative about the situation or make comments other than that you understand her circumstance and wanted to do what you could to help.
As you can see here, people will form opinions quickly based on a simple comment, so keep what you say about it very professional and show sympathy towards the cancelled person - that will help build up an image that you are a caring small business.
Feb 26th, 2007, 05:09 PM
#59
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We will enjoy Afternoon Tea at The Tea Palace; The Chesterfield; The Lanesborough; and The Ritz.
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Now that that's settled, where will you be taking the ladies (and gents) for tea whilst in London?
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Now that that's settled, where will you be taking the ladies (and gents) for tea whilst in London?
Feb 26th, 2007, 07:45 PM
#60
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TeaLover, it sounds like a lovely itineary, and I hope you all have a good time. It is commendable to have kept an open mind about the feedback you received, and I think in the end you made the right decision about the refund.
That said, having now looked at your website and read your explanations, I think there is still a problem with the way these arrangements are advertised on your website.
1) Having seen the website reservation form, I agree with you that the cancellation policy is quite promiment.
2) As others have suggested above, though, it is also quite onerous, even more so than you stated above. For example, for the period of time in which the traveller has cancelled, the policy indicates that "non-recoverable
expenses of our suppliers will be charged, PLUS the following per person charges", in this case 75% of the total cost of the trip. As I understand this, a person who cancelled would be liable for ALL costs actually incurred to date, PLUS an additional 75%. Under this formula, if for example the hotel and/or airfare proved to be "non-recoverable" and the person had to pay for them anyway, I suspect they could easily wind up paying MORE than the entire cost of the trip. As others have suggested, I will certainly be reading cancellation policies more carefully in the future.
3) That said, the real problem that I see is not so much with the terms, which ARE clearly stated. The problem comes with the equally promiment statement, after the recitation of these various onerous terms, that "The purchase of travel insurance is highly recommended (contact Nancy Dxxxxxx for coverage specifics)." The CLEAR implication of this statement is that if you purchase travel insurance through Nancy, you will avoid having to pay these onerous cancellation charges in the event something unexpected happens.
4)AND YET, according to what you've stated above, under the payment schedule set up by your company, it is quite possible -- you have not investigated -- that the travel insurance advertised on your site will NOT in fact cover all of the cancellation charges. The issue is not that, at the time of cancellation, "she did not pay for the entire trip," the issue is that she paid for the trip according to the schedule that YOUR COMPANY set up, on the assumption that the trip insurance purchased by YOUR COMPANY would cover her cancellation fee.
I am guessing that the interaction of these various policies probably did not occur to you until this incident, but now that it has come to your attention, I urge you to either rectify the matter, either by changing your payment schedule, changing your cancellation policy, or both. As it is, I think the mention of travel insurance on the site is very misleading, and could be at least the basis for a consumer complaint, if not a legal claim. I would also suggest that you or your company verify with the travel insurance company that they would ever cover cancellation fees of the type you have established -- well over and above actual costs incurred -- even if the entire balance of the trip had already been paid.
Good luck!
That said, having now looked at your website and read your explanations, I think there is still a problem with the way these arrangements are advertised on your website.
1) Having seen the website reservation form, I agree with you that the cancellation policy is quite promiment.
2) As others have suggested above, though, it is also quite onerous, even more so than you stated above. For example, for the period of time in which the traveller has cancelled, the policy indicates that "non-recoverable
expenses of our suppliers will be charged, PLUS the following per person charges", in this case 75% of the total cost of the trip. As I understand this, a person who cancelled would be liable for ALL costs actually incurred to date, PLUS an additional 75%. Under this formula, if for example the hotel and/or airfare proved to be "non-recoverable" and the person had to pay for them anyway, I suspect they could easily wind up paying MORE than the entire cost of the trip. As others have suggested, I will certainly be reading cancellation policies more carefully in the future.
3) That said, the real problem that I see is not so much with the terms, which ARE clearly stated. The problem comes with the equally promiment statement, after the recitation of these various onerous terms, that "The purchase of travel insurance is highly recommended (contact Nancy Dxxxxxx for coverage specifics)." The CLEAR implication of this statement is that if you purchase travel insurance through Nancy, you will avoid having to pay these onerous cancellation charges in the event something unexpected happens.
4)AND YET, according to what you've stated above, under the payment schedule set up by your company, it is quite possible -- you have not investigated -- that the travel insurance advertised on your site will NOT in fact cover all of the cancellation charges. The issue is not that, at the time of cancellation, "she did not pay for the entire trip," the issue is that she paid for the trip according to the schedule that YOUR COMPANY set up, on the assumption that the trip insurance purchased by YOUR COMPANY would cover her cancellation fee.
I am guessing that the interaction of these various policies probably did not occur to you until this incident, but now that it has come to your attention, I urge you to either rectify the matter, either by changing your payment schedule, changing your cancellation policy, or both. As it is, I think the mention of travel insurance on the site is very misleading, and could be at least the basis for a consumer complaint, if not a legal claim. I would also suggest that you or your company verify with the travel insurance company that they would ever cover cancellation fees of the type you have established -- well over and above actual costs incurred -- even if the entire balance of the trip had already been paid.
Good luck!
