Tax the Tourists
Apr 4th, 2005, 06:15 PM
#4
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City of Houston voters (right now, I'm not including those who live in the suburbs) are some of the most stupid in the country.
First, they thought they could get all these new stadiums built with increased hotel/rental car taxes, with no consequences. Yes, locals usually don't have to rent cars, but that makes the city much less attractive in terms of getting convention business. And there's hardly any "tourist industry" to speak off around here...
Yes, they did bring the Super Bowl and all-star games to Houston in the last few years, but how often do that happen? Once every 6-7 years for Super Bowl, and less frequent for MLB and NBA all-star games. And when will the Texans play more than 8 "meaningful" game in a year at home?
Second, they voted for, or voted for politicians that favor, the stupid light rail. Costs huge amount of money with little benefits in terms of traffic. Instead, the Metro system has no money to upgrade bus service or get new buses; or expediate building of new roads that people actually use.
First, they thought they could get all these new stadiums built with increased hotel/rental car taxes, with no consequences. Yes, locals usually don't have to rent cars, but that makes the city much less attractive in terms of getting convention business. And there's hardly any "tourist industry" to speak off around here...
Yes, they did bring the Super Bowl and all-star games to Houston in the last few years, but how often do that happen? Once every 6-7 years for Super Bowl, and less frequent for MLB and NBA all-star games. And when will the Texans play more than 8 "meaningful" game in a year at home?
Second, they voted for, or voted for politicians that favor, the stupid light rail. Costs huge amount of money with little benefits in terms of traffic. Instead, the Metro system has no money to upgrade bus service or get new buses; or expediate building of new roads that people actually use.
Apr 4th, 2005, 07:53 PM
#5
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I pay attention to the total price paid for a rental, not how much of the rental is tax. If the base rental rate is less expensive in a city with a high tax rate, the total amount may be less than in a city with a high base rate and lower taxes. Are total costs for a rental higher in Houston than in other cities?
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:12 PM
#6
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I can't say for sure, but I just did a simple test.
I tried Budget for 4/6-4/7.
Picking up at IAH, for the smallest car they have, economy 4 door, has a rate of $43. After adding tax and surcharges, it comes out to $61.
I tried San Diego, CA, which has lots of convention facility and good hotels for the same date, also Budget. Economy 4 door is $36. After tax, it's $42.
Or New Orleans, LA. Economy 4 door is $39, after tax, $49.
Numbers speak for themselves.
I tried Budget for 4/6-4/7.
Picking up at IAH, for the smallest car they have, economy 4 door, has a rate of $43. After adding tax and surcharges, it comes out to $61.
I tried San Diego, CA, which has lots of convention facility and good hotels for the same date, also Budget. Economy 4 door is $36. After tax, it's $42.
Or New Orleans, LA. Economy 4 door is $39, after tax, $49.
Numbers speak for themselves.
Apr 4th, 2005, 08:32 PM
#7
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Just today I reserved a rental car at DFW for July. The base price was about $110 for 5 days, but with the taxes and all the other add-ons, it came to over $170. Frankly, I thought that was pretty astounding. But what else can you do?
Apr 4th, 2005, 09:37 PM
#8
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The majority of the madness is taxes, yes, but the car rental companies do their fare share of tweaking the numbers too. Instead of coming up with decent, fair rates...they drop the base price to attract customers, then add things like "concession recovery fee". The car company rents space at the airport, then charges us a "recovery fee" to help them pay their rent? That's a cost of doing business, not something that should be passed amongst customers unequally. In other words, if I rent a car for a day, and you rent it for three weeks, I am paying $5 of their "rent" while you are paying $75 of their "rent" at the airport. Ridiculous. That's like McDonald's advertising 39c burgers, but then adding a 10c "fee" when you buy the burger to help them pay for the building.
Apr 5th, 2005, 06:29 AM
#10
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Actually, I'm all for rental car companies listing out all the extra taxes and fees. Just like the airlines are doing; or your phone companies.
This way, the population can be reminded all the time we're being taxed by the various government entities everywhere. I would hate it when we become Canadians when they buy stuff at the store not even thinking ~15% of the price they're paying is sale taxes.
This way, the population can be reminded all the time we're being taxed by the various government entities everywhere. I would hate it when we become Canadians when they buy stuff at the store not even thinking ~15% of the price they're paying is sale taxes.
Apr 5th, 2005, 06:40 AM
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"tracys2cents" - I love your analogies; they're right on target.
Of course, one of the things that can be done sometimes is to rent from a non-airport location. I moonlight at a hotel (front desk) where we have to break the bad news of a total of 12.25% tax on rooms - even tho there's cities with higher rates. I frequently visit Colonial Williamsburg, and that city has hotel taxes, and I ask, even if no one listens, if those don't constitute taxation with out representation --- and didn't we FIGHT A WAR over that issue?
Yes, each city, town or county tries to "clip" its visitors with a tax that doesn't much affect its own residents, but then anyone who travels elsewhere gets clipped themselves. Localities should internally finance those things they want and stop relying on outsiders to pay for things.
Of course, one of the things that can be done sometimes is to rent from a non-airport location. I moonlight at a hotel (front desk) where we have to break the bad news of a total of 12.25% tax on rooms - even tho there's cities with higher rates. I frequently visit Colonial Williamsburg, and that city has hotel taxes, and I ask, even if no one listens, if those don't constitute taxation with out representation --- and didn't we FIGHT A WAR over that issue?
Yes, each city, town or county tries to "clip" its visitors with a tax that doesn't much affect its own residents, but then anyone who travels elsewhere gets clipped themselves. Localities should internally finance those things they want and stop relying on outsiders to pay for things.
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:27 AM
#12
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RB_traveler, without turning this into a debate on taxation issues, I believe that being taxed for where you reside without access to representation and where you WILLINGLY visit, is comparing apples to oranges.
The fact is tourists require services and tourists utilize resources. If we are going to have a free market society, then to me what should drive the level of taxation is the market. As NYC discovered under David Dinkins, there is a price to pay when you push the envelope on taxing tourists.
In other words, I think when it comes to taxing tourists we should let the market decide.
The fact is tourists require services and tourists utilize resources. If we are going to have a free market society, then to me what should drive the level of taxation is the market. As NYC discovered under David Dinkins, there is a price to pay when you push the envelope on taxing tourists.
In other words, I think when it comes to taxing tourists we should let the market decide.
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:36 AM
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Ryan - I do for the most part agree with you. But do tourists require anymore police or fire protection than the locals do? If not, then the general sales taxes that both residents AND visitors pay should finance those things.
My own county uses the extra taxes on hotels primarily to finance a theater. The next county just increased bed taxes to pay for a convention center. Well- it's primarily locals who go the the theater, and most visitors in the next county will be going to that convention center. In both cases, a tax on tickets to the venues should be how those places are financed: by the users of said services.
The market does tend to settle the issue, especially when extreme situations exist.
My own county uses the extra taxes on hotels primarily to finance a theater. The next county just increased bed taxes to pay for a convention center. Well- it's primarily locals who go the the theater, and most visitors in the next county will be going to that convention center. In both cases, a tax on tickets to the venues should be how those places are financed: by the users of said services.
The market does tend to settle the issue, especially when extreme situations exist.
Apr 5th, 2005, 07:44 AM
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Rb,
Do they require more police and fire services, probably not. But, they do require some services.
As you well know, every town does exactly the same thing. Let's face it, if you've got a budget shortfall and you're in politics, you targeting your voters or the guy who may or may not notice the 14% on his hotel bill.
I think the bigger issue is that voter's have allowed themselves in many, many parts of the country to buy into this mentality of we need a "world class convention center/sport's arena" to attract business.
I read a recent article in Barron's that pointed out that the vast majority of convention space in this country doesn't cover the cost.
Unfortunately, if that situation is true, than this situation with Houston tax rates may indicate bigger issues as clearly other locations are struggling to bridge a revenue gap from stadiums and convention centers. Politicians will respond by raising tax rates on tourists which will merely exacerbate the problem for many towns.
I guess we can add this issue to the list of "taxation bombs" we're facing as a nation.
Do they require more police and fire services, probably not. But, they do require some services.
As you well know, every town does exactly the same thing. Let's face it, if you've got a budget shortfall and you're in politics, you targeting your voters or the guy who may or may not notice the 14% on his hotel bill.
I think the bigger issue is that voter's have allowed themselves in many, many parts of the country to buy into this mentality of we need a "world class convention center/sport's arena" to attract business.
I read a recent article in Barron's that pointed out that the vast majority of convention space in this country doesn't cover the cost.
Unfortunately, if that situation is true, than this situation with Houston tax rates may indicate bigger issues as clearly other locations are struggling to bridge a revenue gap from stadiums and convention centers. Politicians will respond by raising tax rates on tourists which will merely exacerbate the problem for many towns.
I guess we can add this issue to the list of "taxation bombs" we're facing as a nation.
Apr 5th, 2005, 10:40 AM
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All well and good for optional holiday travel, but we're going to a conference in Dallas and have no choice. It's a city I've been to many times on business and have no particular desire to visit again, but it's not in my control.
wsoxrebel, while getting a cab to an off-airport car rental agency has the effect of depriving the on-airport agency of this bogus revenue, wouldn't some of the taxes still apply?
In addition, it would almost certainly end up costing me just as much money, not to mention the hassle and extra time involved in having to do the same on the return. A bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face, unfortunately.
wsoxrebel, while getting a cab to an off-airport car rental agency has the effect of depriving the on-airport agency of this bogus revenue, wouldn't some of the taxes still apply?
In addition, it would almost certainly end up costing me just as much money, not to mention the hassle and extra time involved in having to do the same on the return. A bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face, unfortunately.
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:03 AM
#18
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I should clarify. My husband spends his time in Houston on business, not as a tourist. He'd have to blind fold, gag, and throw me in a potato sack to get me there on a vacation, lol. Please take no offense. I'd feel that way about almost any city he travels to. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration 
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:53 AM
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Marilyn, I believe in DFW area that there are many, many different tax scenarios because of City of Dallas, City of Fort worth, all the smaller bedroom community cities, AND DFW Airport. Each have their own taxing authority and thus set their own rates. For example, we rented a car in downtown Fort Worth from Hertz and the total rate was far less than that of DFW Airport pickup.
You are right that the cab cost could offset any savings. But it might still be worth a look.
You are right that the cab cost could offset any savings. But it might still be worth a look.
Apr 5th, 2005, 11:55 AM
#20
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In FL the tourists use our roads almost as much as we do. And so there are gas taxes and each county will add their own gas taxes to help pay for the roads. And hotels and rental cars also fall victim to these taxes. C'est la vie. But I'm not so sure that Houston is quite the tourist attraction that Florida is. So not sure I understand that one.
Maybe it is a tax for the privilege of getting out of town
Maybe it is a tax for the privilege of getting out of town
