BTilke

should be take your dog ALONG, not dog alone.

beentheretwice

Experience has shown me that people will do what they want to do regardless of advice requested and given. We don't know the dog, the destination or the people involved. Nor do we know why someone couldn't board their dog (cost, can't be vaccinated, etc).

However, "a dog CAN fly safely" isn't to be read "a dog WILL fly safely". You have to weigh risks against benefits.

GoTravel

The best and easiest way to fly with a large dog or any pet for that matter is to charter your own plane so the pet can ride with you in the cabin.

If not, leave Fido and Fluffy at home.

BTilke

I believe xmelissax asked for people who had EXPERIENCE taking dogs on planes. For all those saying NEVER, a few things to keep in mind. First, before we put our dog on a plane, we did a lot of research, talking to pet shippers, dog breeders, professional handlers, etc., who DO send their dogs on flights regularly and looking at airline stats. It is NOT the horror story everyone is saying. Many planes DO provide temperature controls in the pet cargo area...to say that the pet cargo hold does NOT have temp controls is false. Next, the overwhelming majority of dogs flying in cargo do arrive safely and in the same health they started in. If you actually look at the animal stats closely, most incidents occur not with dogs or cats but with other animals, esp. those shipped in bulk. And of those very few incidents that do occur with dogs, most of the dogs affected are from breeds that have poor respiratory systems due to breeding standards--i.e., English bulldogs or suprisingly enough, collies. An average dog in good health from a breed not at special risk will, in fact, come through a flight about as safely as an average person in good health. (Also on the flight our English cocker took to Paris were a 15 yo retriever and two cats, one blind, the other diabetic--all arrived safely.)
I am NOT recommending taking a dog on a flight for a short vacation. But if you are going to be gone a long time and you're going someplace that is pet welcoming, taking your dog on a plane is simply not the doomsday scenario everyone above is painting.
Try for a direct flight--avoid connections. Fly during periods when weather temps will not be extreme. For example, we flew from San Francisco to Paris in March--the temps in both cities were in the high 50s. Talk to dog breeders, handlers, about which airlines are best. We give very high marks to AF. Everyone was very careful with our dog, all the way up to the captain, who took a personal interest in seeing that our dog was loaded properly, that conditions in the pet cargo hold were optimal, and in ensuring that our dog was unloaded immediately in Paris.
Driving is not necessarily safer. Our cocker who thrived during our vacation in Paris died in a freak car accident a year later, when someone hit us at 50 mph only a mile from our home. Our current cocker came to us all the way from NZ--and she is as happy and healthy as anyone could hope for.

BTilke

In addition, my in-laws' parrots have flown around the world with them (in the cabin), from Hong Kong to Australia, to the U.S. then to Kuwait (and were smuggled to Jordan during the first Gulf War when my inlaws were hostages) and back to the U.S. from Jordan. Both parrots lived well beyond the average lifespan (one of them was featured in BirdTalk magazine).

Keith

My dog flew several times. Always in the hold. It went well and I am glad I did it.

I only did it when I had direct flights, I wouldn't have considered it if I was changing planes. Not only would there be so much more time and more handling, but I had this image of his going around a baggage carousel in the wrong city.

Here were the negatives:

The airlines only allowed a certain number of pets to travel in the cargo hold per sflight and not all of them would take reservations for those spots.

Cost - sometimes Charlie's charge was more than my ticket price.

The airlines only transported animals when the outside temperature was within a certain range. They would not do it when it was very cold or very warm. When I traveled I didn't know if a weather change would screw up the trip.

Keith

kamahinaohoku

Suze - FYI there's no more 4 month quarantine.

But I agree, DON'T bring your pets on vacation! Sorry, but dogs and cats without RECENT rabies shots (14 days prior) and documentation (all paperwork from the vet) of the shots, must undergo a strict 5-day quarantine for which the owner pays entry and daily fees.

Call or write for information 6-months in advance from the Hawaii Department of Agriculture, 99-770 Halawa Valley St., Aiea 96701 or call 808 483-7171 or 808 483-7151.

GoTravel

" before we put our dog on a plane, we did a lot of research, talking to pet shippers, dog breeders, professional handlers, etc., who DO send their dogs on flights regularly and looking at airline stats"

BTilke, I believe you are mistaken when you write that one is able to look at airline stats concerning the shipping of live animals.

There was an uproar a couple of years ago when PETA wanted the airlines to start keeping stats which they do not. Both American and Delta threatened to stop shipping animals if they had to keep any stats or reports on animals in cargo hold.

GoTravel

BTilke, here are two articles that divulge further that the airlines keep no records of pet safety in cargo. Whomever you ship your pet with is lying to you.

http://kprc-tvpet.ip2m.com/index.cfm...ite_cat_id=393

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/14/Bu...t_keep_P.shtml

kodi

Please don't do this to your dog. I know lots of people do it, but there are so many heartbreaking stories.
I'd be worried sick the whole time.
Just think how bewildering it would be for your dog. Is it really the best thing for him? Enjoy your trip and look forward to seeing your happy , healthy dog when you return home.

BTilke

No one is "lying." At the time when we had our pets shipped, an ATA survey assessed some of the PETA claims, such as the one that 5000 animals had died in one year. It was proven to be complete sensationalist bunk. Breeders, professional handlers, etc. keep very good recirds of how their dogs are handled by airlines and you CAN get that info if you know who to talk to.

GoTravel

While breeders and professional handlers may keep records, they are a very small percentage of animals shipped.

You are basing this on an ATA survey? There is a huge difference between facts and answers to a survey.

My point is the bottom line is there are no records kept by the airlines concerning the shipment of animals in cargo.

Relying on breeders and professional handlers assessments is hardly a reflection of the overall picture. Nor is this information of any use to the average Joe wanting to ship Fido.

Professionals do this for a living. They have a little heads up on how to safely ship.

Intrepid1

I'd be very interested in what the original poster has decided given all the responses, wouldn't you? Or have we simply wasted our time here?

kgh8m

I, too, think it's a bad idea. You have a large dog, so it would have to be in the cargo hold, and there are real horror stories (despite Btilke's protests) about the temperature and proper pressurization of the hold. Yes, many animals are shipped successfully, but this is not something I would do to my beloved large dog.

You will make your own decision, but I'd like to consider a few more questions: How well does your dog travel for long periods of time without being able to walk around? Any travel sickness? Any experience with a long-term crating experience and travel? Does your dog have any fears (ex: my large dog is not afraid of other dogs or people, but he cannot handle strange noises (like vaccuum and wind), so his experience in a strange cargo hold would be pretty traumatic for him)?

Is it that you want to take your dog with you on vacation, is it that you don't want to kennel him, or that you want your dog to have a vacation? A dog won't really enjoy a "people" vacation, and there are many dog vacations available (camping style activities with your dog).

All this said, I once read about a really expensive airline that allowed all dogs in the passenger area. Forget the name, though...

Good luck!

Meesthare

We've been looking into this since we decided to move across the country next fall; we'll be taking our 2 cats with us. We considered having them travel in cargo; that would make it easier because we could leave them with someone until we get settled, and then just have them put on the plane and we can pick them up at our end. However, we decided the only way to do it is to come back and get them, and take them with us in the cabin. The airline (Air Canada in our case) states that the cargo area where they would be is temperature-controlled, but then they also say they won't accept animals in cargo during the deepest winter months. Why not, if it's temp-controlled? My suspicion is that it's partly heated, but not comfortably. The animals likely won't die, but they won't be all that comfortable either. We know they will hate travelling in the cabin too - and there may be problems, although the airline says it's ok as long as they know about it in advance - but at least they will be with us where we can keep an eye on them.

BTilke

"Professionals do this for a living. They have a little heads up on how to safely ship."

Umm, that is exactly the point I was making when I told the OP to talk to breeders and professional handlers and others who have experience sending dogs in planes. Glad you recognized that.
We spent a great deal of time talking to professionals--who were eager to share their advice--and we followed their suggestions, which, by the way, were based on common sense, not rocket science. It's fairly easy to minimize any risks the dog could face (crate train your dog, check that it has no underlying health problems or is a high risk breed, use an appropriate crate size, ask for airline recommendations from people who have flown with or shipped their pets, avoid connecting flights, don't fly during extreme weather conditions, provide departure and arrival contact information, etc. etc.).
I can appreciate that some people here may have had negative experiences. But for people who have never shipped a dog or traveled with one on a plane to assume they have information superior to the people that have, well that doesn't wash. Repeating what some animal rights group claims is not the same thing as having first hand experience.
Also, I find it odd that the same groups that say never ship your pet also were the ones promoting the adoption of pets from places like Puerto Rico or Cyprus or wherever. I have nothing against those programs, but how do they think those dogs got to the U.S.? By swimming? Walking on water? No, by flying--in the cargo holds of commercial planes. A clear case of do as they say, not as they do.

janis

BTilke posts REALLY helpful/informative things over on the Europe board -- but here I have the feeling BT is protesting a bit too much. Maybe being a tad defensive because some of these posts almost go so far as accusing people who fly pets of animal abuse. I'm sure BTilke wouldn't knowingly do anything to harm the family pets -- BUT just because one person has had an OK experience does not mean it is a good idea.

Consider how a dog would experience the dark hold, cold temps, VERY loud noises, turbulence, discomfort during take off and landing, etc -- all w/ no one to comfort them. It could be terrifying . . . . . .

BTilke

No, I'm just trying to provide some balance against the posts here that imply putting a dog on a plane is a death sentence. Because it isn't. Many of our friends are dog breeders and show dogs either professinally or as highly knowledgeable amateurs (and a few are judges whom you have seen on tv at Crufts and the Westminster Kennel Club show). Their dogs (which are worth thousands of dollars as well as being beloved family pets) fly several times a year. None of their dogs have EVER been injured or traumatized, much less died. I prefer to rely on their experience and guidance rather than that of people who don't have any experience, just gloom and doom predictions designed to make the person who DOES take their pet on a plane feel as terrible as possible.
I'm NOT recommending taking a pet on a short vacation. But to say NEVER...well, I don't think that's fair to say either, esp. if you've never done it yourself, don't know the dog, the circumstances, the destination, etc. under question.

janis

"I'm NOT recommending taking a pet on a short vacation"

OK BT - not to beat a dead horse here -- but the OP WAS asking about a short vacation.

And, just how do you know none of those animals were traumatized? Last I knew, even my totally exceptional/smart dog and cat can't talk and hash out their emotional state . . . . . . .

BTilke

Was she? I saw vacation, not "short" vacation. Some vacations can last several weeks, even months. Who knows? The OP hasn't been back to share.
Maybe it's because we and our dog loving friends have spaniels, which are pretty "emotional" and expressive dogs, we can pretty mich tell how they're feeling. We definitely know when our dog is happy, sad, scared, upset, ticked off. You can't tell that with your own dogs? At any rate, when a dog bounces out of its crate after a plane journey, tail wagging and ready to go, well, that doesn't seem traumatized to me.