Swingers resorts in the US
Jan 20th, 2007, 09:49 AM
#41
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Out of curiosity, where in a typical marriage vow does it say you can't engage in a "swinging" lifestyle where both partners consent to the behavior? Cheating and lying are something entirely different.
Jan 20th, 2007, 09:52 AM
#43
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the problem here is that you will be with strangers, not friends. I worked for years in a GYN practice. It's very embarrassing when a person has to come in with a new case of herpes, venereal warts or some of the other STDs, some of which have to be reported to the health department. They were always advised to contact any partner to warn them to be checked out.
If you aren't aware of all the goodies that can be picked up in the "swinging" scene, maybe you should do some reading on STDs.
Stick with the people you know. It might be safer. But hey! You want to take that kind of chance just to try for a happier marriage, be our guest.
The real danger might be that one partner finds out just how lousy the other is in bed.
If you aren't aware of all the goodies that can be picked up in the "swinging" scene, maybe you should do some reading on STDs.
Stick with the people you know. It might be safer. But hey! You want to take that kind of chance just to try for a happier marriage, be our guest.
The real danger might be that one partner finds out just how lousy the other is in bed.
Jan 20th, 2007, 10:11 AM
#44
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Just a question here. When two husbands and two wives swap partners it's always called "wife swapping". I've never heard of "husband swapping". Why is that? Is it because it is the woman only who is the sex object?
Jan 20th, 2007, 10:30 AM
#47
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I really didn't start this thread to have a moral discussion. However, it bugs me when people need to take my question and turn it into this sermon.
To those of you who have been completely faithful to your spouse, in body and in mind, and you have a sustained, healthy marriage, I say great job!
But I still maintain that the couple who jointly decides to "bend" one portion of the wedding vow is more honorable than the couple who suddenly decides one day that the vows in total no longer apply and get divorced. Instead of determining if a portion of the wedding vow requires flexibility for their situation, they simply say "oops... about those vows... didn't really mean any of it, especially that "death due us part" portion. they no longer apply"
I think we've decided on Bali. Thanks for the recommendation, whoever made it. WE're getting out of the country too. We're excited about the trip.
To those of you who have been completely faithful to your spouse, in body and in mind, and you have a sustained, healthy marriage, I say great job!
But I still maintain that the couple who jointly decides to "bend" one portion of the wedding vow is more honorable than the couple who suddenly decides one day that the vows in total no longer apply and get divorced. Instead of determining if a portion of the wedding vow requires flexibility for their situation, they simply say "oops... about those vows... didn't really mean any of it, especially that "death due us part" portion. they no longer apply"
I think we've decided on Bali. Thanks for the recommendation, whoever made it. WE're getting out of the country too. We're excited about the trip.
Jan 20th, 2007, 10:43 AM
#49
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cd - I just looked up my wedding vows - still have the doc saved on my computer. They didn't include that bit and I suspect that many other's didn't either. Not everyone says the same canned set of vows. I do think that as long as both husband and wife agree to what ever activities they are engaging in, then fine - whatever their vows said.
Jan 20th, 2007, 11:00 AM
#50
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cd, "'And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live" could be interpretted in different ways. I'd say that means don't cheat on your spouse - period - and be devoted to this one person. "Swinging" is not cheating if both people consent to it. I'm guessing most swingers would tell you their emotional and financial bonds are still between the husband and wife and not anyone else.
Not that I wish to condone "swinging" - rather I wish to speak out against judging other people. While I may find certain activities disgusting, if they occur between consenting adults, it's really not my business, and I certainly don't judge them for it.
Not that I wish to condone "swinging" - rather I wish to speak out against judging other people. While I may find certain activities disgusting, if they occur between consenting adults, it's really not my business, and I certainly don't judge them for it.
Jan 20th, 2007, 12:15 PM
#51
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Andrew
I really don't think there's much of a difference between my judgement and my opinion. In my judgement, swinging is not a moral activity, in my judgement, sex and love are pardners and once marriage vows are taken, restricted to marriage between one man and one women (although I do think that should be changed to same sex lovers also) Anyway, it doesn't matter what my judgement or opinion is, it's not going to change a thing. Those who want to swing will do so. I still find it distrubing and not understandable.
I really don't think there's much of a difference between my judgement and my opinion. In my judgement, swinging is not a moral activity, in my judgement, sex and love are pardners and once marriage vows are taken, restricted to marriage between one man and one women (although I do think that should be changed to same sex lovers also) Anyway, it doesn't matter what my judgement or opinion is, it's not going to change a thing. Those who want to swing will do so. I still find it distrubing and not understandable.
Jan 20th, 2007, 12:30 PM
#52
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I know that everyone does everything differently in their relationships and I see your angle on being up front with each other about swinging versus just cheating. But all of that aside how do you draw the line between emotional intimacy and sex? In my opinion of marriage my vows are to be faithful emotionally as well as physically. Just wondering how swingers can just comb out the intimacy aspect?
Jan 20th, 2007, 12:53 PM
#55
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cd, you have every right to find any sort of behavior "not understandable" and even "disturbing." But why is it not a "moral activity" for other people to engage in? I mean, if you find it personally immoral, don't do it - but why do you pass on this judgement of other people?
See, you mention also that you think same sex marriage would be OK with you and presumably, moral. Many others believe that these sort of relationships are "immoral" and "disturbing." How do you feel when people tell you that same sex relationships are immoral? No one can be a moral barometer for these sorts of issues, beyond their own behavior. Everyone's got a different take on what's "moral" - who's right? My view is: no one is "right" and we shouldn't bother judging other people's consensual adult behavior, whether we find it "disturbing" or not.
See, you mention also that you think same sex marriage would be OK with you and presumably, moral. Many others believe that these sort of relationships are "immoral" and "disturbing." How do you feel when people tell you that same sex relationships are immoral? No one can be a moral barometer for these sorts of issues, beyond their own behavior. Everyone's got a different take on what's "moral" - who's right? My view is: no one is "right" and we shouldn't bother judging other people's consensual adult behavior, whether we find it "disturbing" or not.
Jan 20th, 2007, 01:30 PM
#57
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So Andrew, you don't see your opinions as personal judgements? You stated that you find certain activities disgusting, This is your opinion but is this not also a judgement?
I like ilovetulips comment that her marriage vows of faithfulness is both physical and emotional. That is how I view vows. I view sex as love and not just an activity whether gay or straight.
I like ilovetulips comment that her marriage vows of faithfulness is both physical and emotional. That is how I view vows. I view sex as love and not just an activity whether gay or straight.
Jan 20th, 2007, 01:42 PM
#60
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Lots of thoughts on this one. I watched, from the side, when couples tried "swinging" in the seventies. It was called "open marriage" then. "Open marriage" did not last long as it did not work too well. Few of the marriages held together, in the longrun.
Neopatrick hit the nail on the head, when he asked why it isn't called "husband swapping," instead of "wife swapping." Most of the "open marriages" were initiated by the husband, and the wife went along to save the marriage, acting as if she thought it was a swell idea. Honestly, sometimes I thought it was like watching some alpha gorilla staking out territory.
Ultimately, it gets complicated and someone got hurt. Unless you are very special, of course.
Neopatrick hit the nail on the head, when he asked why it isn't called "husband swapping," instead of "wife swapping." Most of the "open marriages" were initiated by the husband, and the wife went along to save the marriage, acting as if she thought it was a swell idea. Honestly, sometimes I thought it was like watching some alpha gorilla staking out territory.
Ultimately, it gets complicated and someone got hurt. Unless you are very special, of course.
