Sonoma or napa?
Apr 11th, 2013, 10:21 AM
#21
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"and Point Reyes that looks like the foggy coast of Northumberland"
Not sure what Point Reyes has to do with a discussion about Napa and Sonoma. It's in Marin County.
For those of us who live in the area, we are very fortunate to be able to enjoy both Napa and Sonoma. Oh, and Point Reyes too. I don't know a better place to live.
Not sure what Point Reyes has to do with a discussion about Napa and Sonoma. It's in Marin County.
For those of us who live in the area, we are very fortunate to be able to enjoy both Napa and Sonoma. Oh, and Point Reyes too. I don't know a better place to live.
Apr 11th, 2013, 10:56 AM
#22
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had a similar experience right down the road @ St. Francis as well, @ no cost. Since even your moniker suggests snobbery (IMHO) to me, perhaps, tg, you should just respond to the OPs inquiries in lieu of disagreeing or attempting to find fault w/my opinions/experiences. We all have differing opinions. That is what makes this site what it is. I have been to many wineries in both regions in the past 20+ years. I merely mentioned a more recent experience & I have been a frequent visitor to Ledson since they opened. In addition, I didn't say anything about anyone being unfriendly...I did not know that being a snob, & being friendly, were mutually exclusive traits ? And yes, based on our conversation to date, I would likely, also, throw you into the snob category, which is unfortunately quite common when talking to some people about wine. 'If the shoe fits'....as they say.
Apr 11th, 2013, 11:57 AM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<We all have differing opinions.>
That's true, of course, so I don't understand why you're arguing with tg's perception, and calling him/her a snob. Nothing in his/her post warrants an insult. So what if you two don't agree? No need for defensiveness. differing views are good.
That's true, of course, so I don't understand why you're arguing with tg's perception, and calling him/her a snob. Nothing in his/her post warrants an insult. So what if you two don't agree? No need for defensiveness. differing views are good.
Apr 11th, 2013, 02:09 PM
#24
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had a similar experience right down the road @ St. Francis as well, @ no cost.
And they are also a winery that charges. And they don't normally serve food, nor do you normally meet the winemaker.
you should just respond to the OPs inquiries in lieu of disagreeing or attempting to find fault w/my opinions/experiences. We all have differing opinions.
You shouldn't be offering outlier experiences as if they are the norm or as if they are indicative of a fault line between Napa and Sonoma. Your post risks making it seem as if the average person can walk in off the street into Ledson and have a private tasting of "well over 20 wines", with food, and where you are buddy-buddy with the winemaker. That is simply unrealistic. And the way you work it into a comparison between Napa and Sonoma as if this is what marks the difference between the two is questionable.
Differing opinions are fine. You may like Ledson wines and I'm not going to argue with you. But it is not an opinion that they normally charge for tastings, especially private ones with food where you taste "well over 20" wines. And I would go so far as to say that it is not an opinion that Ledson is not comparable to a Napa winery in its emphasis on events, direct sales, real estate, and the hotel.
Honestly, what I find kind of hilarious is that you tout Sonoma for "accessible winemakers" and then rattle off two business-like wineries, one of which (St. Francis) produces hundreds of thousands of cases every year. But, hey, I'm sure their winemaker is just hanging out in the tasting room every day pouring free flights for all comers.
which is unfortunately quite common when talking to some people about wine.
The other thing I find is common when talking to people about wine is that there is a huge segment of the population that likes to trade in reverse snobbery and that tends to glorify their ignorance of wine. If you detect snobbery in Napa, it is because you are looking for it, because what I invariably find is some nerd manning the counter because they just love wine.
And they are also a winery that charges. And they don't normally serve food, nor do you normally meet the winemaker.
you should just respond to the OPs inquiries in lieu of disagreeing or attempting to find fault w/my opinions/experiences. We all have differing opinions.
You shouldn't be offering outlier experiences as if they are the norm or as if they are indicative of a fault line between Napa and Sonoma. Your post risks making it seem as if the average person can walk in off the street into Ledson and have a private tasting of "well over 20 wines", with food, and where you are buddy-buddy with the winemaker. That is simply unrealistic. And the way you work it into a comparison between Napa and Sonoma as if this is what marks the difference between the two is questionable.
Differing opinions are fine. You may like Ledson wines and I'm not going to argue with you. But it is not an opinion that they normally charge for tastings, especially private ones with food where you taste "well over 20" wines. And I would go so far as to say that it is not an opinion that Ledson is not comparable to a Napa winery in its emphasis on events, direct sales, real estate, and the hotel.
Honestly, what I find kind of hilarious is that you tout Sonoma for "accessible winemakers" and then rattle off two business-like wineries, one of which (St. Francis) produces hundreds of thousands of cases every year. But, hey, I'm sure their winemaker is just hanging out in the tasting room every day pouring free flights for all comers.
which is unfortunately quite common when talking to some people about wine.
The other thing I find is common when talking to people about wine is that there is a huge segment of the population that likes to trade in reverse snobbery and that tends to glorify their ignorance of wine. If you detect snobbery in Napa, it is because you are looking for it, because what I invariably find is some nerd manning the counter because they just love wine.
Apr 11th, 2013, 02:45 PM
#25
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"And they don't normally serve food"
If this refers to St. Francis, just for the record, they do have a wonderful wine and food pairing option.
http://www.stfranciswinery.com/recipes/pairing.asp
I can't comment on other people's experiences but wanted to say that I have enjoyed my visits to St. Francis over the years. They are now corporate owned but still produce some very nice wines.
If this refers to St. Francis, just for the record, they do have a wonderful wine and food pairing option.
http://www.stfranciswinery.com/recipes/pairing.asp
I can't comment on other people's experiences but wanted to say that I have enjoyed my visits to St. Francis over the years. They are now corporate owned but still produce some very nice wines.
Apr 11th, 2013, 03:22 PM
#26
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this refers to St. Francis, just for the record, they do have a wonderful wine and food pairing option.
Thanks for the clarification. But I would note that those are extras that you pay for.
I can't comment on other people's experiences but wanted to say that I have enjoyed my visits to St. Francis over the years. They are now corporate owned but still produce some very nice wines.
I was not trying to say that St. Francis produces bad wine, just that they are a large winery and not the sort of place where you have "accessible winemakers".
Thanks for the clarification. But I would note that those are extras that you pay for.
I can't comment on other people's experiences but wanted to say that I have enjoyed my visits to St. Francis over the years. They are now corporate owned but still produce some very nice wines.
I was not trying to say that St. Francis produces bad wine, just that they are a large winery and not the sort of place where you have "accessible winemakers".
Apr 11th, 2013, 03:27 PM
#27
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with SanParis2.
I've been going to Napa Valley before it became famous and it was just a sleepy little country valley with some vineyards and some tasting rooms. The most imposing winery then was the Christian Brothers Winery where not only the winetasting was free but the winery gave out free wine glasses with its name and logo on the glasses. Other smaller wineries followed suit. This was all a marketing method to get people to taste their wines. Then came the comparison blind tastings with French wines which put California wines on the world map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgmen...ris_%28wine%29
Then came the gradual increase in prices for the wines.
Then came the numerous visitors to Napa Valley.
Then came more increases in the prices of the same wines and the wineries didn't give free tasting any more. Not necessary marketing any more since people were making Napa Valley famous and the wineries didn't need to find means to attractive visitors to their wineries any more.
Then came the first "establishment" eateries.
Then came more increases in the prices and a certain "hauteur" gripped the valley.
Then came "world-renowned" restaurants like French Laundry and Napa Valley really took off into "we're better" atmosphere. Sure, there are good restaurants in Napa Valley. Our favorite tends to be Bistro Jeanty. However, there are wonderful places to eat too in Sonoma. Late March we had another wonderful dinner at Lococo's. Nor do the wines in Sonoma County take a back seat to Napa County's, IMHO.
Some people like to say, "Oh, I went to Napa Valley and was able to get a reservation at French Laundry. We also snagged the last case of Cab Souv at xyz winery for only $200 a bottle".
That's snobbery.
I've been going to Napa Valley before it became famous and it was just a sleepy little country valley with some vineyards and some tasting rooms. The most imposing winery then was the Christian Brothers Winery where not only the winetasting was free but the winery gave out free wine glasses with its name and logo on the glasses. Other smaller wineries followed suit. This was all a marketing method to get people to taste their wines. Then came the comparison blind tastings with French wines which put California wines on the world map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgmen...ris_%28wine%29
Then came the gradual increase in prices for the wines.
Then came the numerous visitors to Napa Valley.
Then came more increases in the prices of the same wines and the wineries didn't give free tasting any more. Not necessary marketing any more since people were making Napa Valley famous and the wineries didn't need to find means to attractive visitors to their wineries any more.
Then came the first "establishment" eateries.
Then came more increases in the prices and a certain "hauteur" gripped the valley.
Then came "world-renowned" restaurants like French Laundry and Napa Valley really took off into "we're better" atmosphere. Sure, there are good restaurants in Napa Valley. Our favorite tends to be Bistro Jeanty. However, there are wonderful places to eat too in Sonoma. Late March we had another wonderful dinner at Lococo's. Nor do the wines in Sonoma County take a back seat to Napa County's, IMHO.
Some people like to say, "Oh, I went to Napa Valley and was able to get a reservation at French Laundry. We also snagged the last case of Cab Souv at xyz winery for only $200 a bottle".
That's snobbery.
Apr 11th, 2013, 04:51 PM
#28
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some people like to say, "Oh, I went to Napa Valley and was able to get a reservation at French Laundry. We also snagged the last case of Cab Souv at xyz winery for only $200 a bottle".
That's snobbery.
And that is different from saying "they hosted my friends & I, 7 of us all together. We tasted well over 20 wines, in a private tasting room, were given food, met the owners & winemakers, etc. all, for free"?
I think that you will find snobs in both valleys, but it should be noted that only the defenders of one valley are belittling the other and bragging about their experiences.
Nor do the wines in Sonoma County take a back seat to Napa County's, IMHO.
But neither do the wines in Napa take a back seat to those from Sonoma. Both valleys produce excellent wines.
That's snobbery.
And that is different from saying "they hosted my friends & I, 7 of us all together. We tasted well over 20 wines, in a private tasting room, were given food, met the owners & winemakers, etc. all, for free"?
I think that you will find snobs in both valleys, but it should be noted that only the defenders of one valley are belittling the other and bragging about their experiences.
Nor do the wines in Sonoma County take a back seat to Napa County's, IMHO.
But neither do the wines in Napa take a back seat to those from Sonoma. Both valleys produce excellent wines.
Apr 11th, 2013, 07:17 PM
#29
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<
Some people like to say, "Oh, I went to Napa Valley and was able to get a reservation at French Laundry. We also snagged the last case of Cab Souv at xyz winery for only $200 a bottle".
That's snobbery. >
OK, I must be dumb, but how is that snobbery?
Anyway, I must say i prefer smaller production wineries; I think you can taste soul. Hundreds of thousands of cases--that tends to put me off. If that makes me a snob in this groups' estimation, so be it.
Viva the Wine Nerd!
Some people like to say, "Oh, I went to Napa Valley and was able to get a reservation at French Laundry. We also snagged the last case of Cab Souv at xyz winery for only $200 a bottle".
That's snobbery. >
OK, I must be dumb, but how is that snobbery?
Anyway, I must say i prefer smaller production wineries; I think you can taste soul. Hundreds of thousands of cases--that tends to put me off. If that makes me a snob in this groups' estimation, so be it.
Viva the Wine Nerd!
Apr 12th, 2013, 12:33 AM
#30
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tg: >>That's snobbery.
Yes, it is.
I'm not defending Ledson, since I'm not a fan of their wines, but Sonoma has more than one winery that sells only to its customers or to visitors only. Ledson is one of them and Ledson is also one that is very good at marketing. The huge "chateau" is just one of their ways of marketing.
Finding ways to market one's products is not at all the same as cloaking an entire valley as somehow being "better" and being the irresistible "must do". There are 5000 grape growers and 3500 wine makers in California. No one region can claim to be better than any other. Napa just depends on its initial success at the competitive events to lay claim to fame and glory and to continue to be the one region that charges more than any other wine region. However, the other regions are learning and are catching up.
I think that you will find snobs in both valleys, but it should be noted that only the defenders of one valley are belittling the other and bragging about their experiences.
Sonoma needs no one to defend it nor to brag about their experiences. Sonoma can hold its own against Napa any day. There's no need to promote Napa at the expense of the other California wine regions.
But neither do the wines in Napa take a back seat to those from Sonoma.
I never said they did. I only said that Napa has evolved from a sleepy valley into a wine producing region with high prices and even higher priced restaurants; those elements give it an aura of snobbery today. Never said their wines take a back seat to the wines of any other region in California.
NewbE: Anyway, I must say i prefer smaller production wineries; I think you can taste soul. Hundreds of thousands of cases--that tends to put me off. If that makes me a snob in this groups' estimation, so be it.
95% of the US drinks bulk wine, that is, wine mass produced with a steady predictable taste year after year. This topic already came up on several previous threads.
There's no need to cast aspersions either on the wineries that produce bulk wines nor on the drinkers of bulk wine. After all, in 2007, Two Buck Chuck came in as the Top Chardonnay in California over hundreds of other Chardonnays, many of them using the "snob" factor to sell their chardonnays for hundreds of dollars a bottle.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...ine_snobs.html
The wines from the "boutique" wineries are handcrafted and may sometimes have tremendous variations year to year. That's what makes for a great winetasting trip - finding out about new wines and new, smaller wineries that aren't famous - yet.
Yes, it is.
I'm not defending Ledson, since I'm not a fan of their wines, but Sonoma has more than one winery that sells only to its customers or to visitors only. Ledson is one of them and Ledson is also one that is very good at marketing. The huge "chateau" is just one of their ways of marketing.
Finding ways to market one's products is not at all the same as cloaking an entire valley as somehow being "better" and being the irresistible "must do". There are 5000 grape growers and 3500 wine makers in California. No one region can claim to be better than any other. Napa just depends on its initial success at the competitive events to lay claim to fame and glory and to continue to be the one region that charges more than any other wine region. However, the other regions are learning and are catching up.
I think that you will find snobs in both valleys, but it should be noted that only the defenders of one valley are belittling the other and bragging about their experiences.
Sonoma needs no one to defend it nor to brag about their experiences. Sonoma can hold its own against Napa any day. There's no need to promote Napa at the expense of the other California wine regions.
But neither do the wines in Napa take a back seat to those from Sonoma.
I never said they did. I only said that Napa has evolved from a sleepy valley into a wine producing region with high prices and even higher priced restaurants; those elements give it an aura of snobbery today. Never said their wines take a back seat to the wines of any other region in California.
NewbE: Anyway, I must say i prefer smaller production wineries; I think you can taste soul. Hundreds of thousands of cases--that tends to put me off. If that makes me a snob in this groups' estimation, so be it.
95% of the US drinks bulk wine, that is, wine mass produced with a steady predictable taste year after year. This topic already came up on several previous threads.
There's no need to cast aspersions either on the wineries that produce bulk wines nor on the drinkers of bulk wine. After all, in 2007, Two Buck Chuck came in as the Top Chardonnay in California over hundreds of other Chardonnays, many of them using the "snob" factor to sell their chardonnays for hundreds of dollars a bottle.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...ine_snobs.html
The wines from the "boutique" wineries are handcrafted and may sometimes have tremendous variations year to year. That's what makes for a great winetasting trip - finding out about new wines and new, smaller wineries that aren't famous - yet.
Apr 12th, 2013, 03:12 AM
#31
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, it is.
I think you need to re-read the statement. And your own. They are actually pretty darn analogous.
Sonoma needs no one to defend it nor to brag about their experiences
Nobody said it did need defending.
There's no need to promote Napa at the expense of the other California wine regions.
Not a single person in this thread did anything of the sort.
Napa just depends on its initial success at the competitive events to lay claim to fame and glory and to continue to be the one region that charges more than any other wine region.
Napa depends upon the quality of their wines, not marketing or past glory. To suggest otherwise is a disservice to the winemakers. I also don't find that Napa commands too much of a premium for its wines compared with the other quality regions in CA.
95% of the US drinks bulk wine, that is, wine mass produced with a steady predictable taste year after year.
I think the question is why you would travel to wine country merely to taste widely available wines you could buy at the corner grocery store.
There's no need to cast aspersions either on the wineries that produce bulk wines nor on the drinkers of bulk wine.
I don't think anyone castes aspersions on anyone, save those who are insisting upon intimating that Napa is full of snobbish people.
To whit:
those elements give it an aura of snobbery today
So is it safe to say that everything expensive is "snobbery"? Can you please provide the dollar limit after which a bottle of wine becomes snobbish? And can you also provide the dollar value of a meal after which a restaurant becomes snobbish? For the meal, you can provide the cost of the food, without drinks or tip.
I think you need to re-read the statement. And your own. They are actually pretty darn analogous.
Sonoma needs no one to defend it nor to brag about their experiences
Nobody said it did need defending.
There's no need to promote Napa at the expense of the other California wine regions.
Not a single person in this thread did anything of the sort.
Napa just depends on its initial success at the competitive events to lay claim to fame and glory and to continue to be the one region that charges more than any other wine region.
Napa depends upon the quality of their wines, not marketing or past glory. To suggest otherwise is a disservice to the winemakers. I also don't find that Napa commands too much of a premium for its wines compared with the other quality regions in CA.
95% of the US drinks bulk wine, that is, wine mass produced with a steady predictable taste year after year.
I think the question is why you would travel to wine country merely to taste widely available wines you could buy at the corner grocery store.
There's no need to cast aspersions either on the wineries that produce bulk wines nor on the drinkers of bulk wine.
I don't think anyone castes aspersions on anyone, save those who are insisting upon intimating that Napa is full of snobbish people.
To whit:
those elements give it an aura of snobbery today
So is it safe to say that everything expensive is "snobbery"? Can you please provide the dollar limit after which a bottle of wine becomes snobbish? And can you also provide the dollar value of a meal after which a restaurant becomes snobbish? For the meal, you can provide the cost of the food, without drinks or tip.
Apr 12th, 2013, 10:31 AM
#34
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of us who reside in say NC, you are held beholden to what kind of wines the importers in your particular area are bringing in. Fortunately, here in CLT, we do have some good importers that travel off the beaten path. That being said, when we do travel to Wine Country, be it in California or France or North Carolina for that matter - we seek out those wines & wineries that we can not get @ home. *(It took several years, in fact, for us to convince our lawmakers we weren't traveling to Napa Valley to schlep back cases of Beringer white zinfindel to deprive them of their duly owed taxes, on alcohol). It is no problem to me to have a friendly debate - however, it is a problem when people take things out of context, twist your words & filet your post(s) whilst picking it apart piece by piece. I am not going to take the time nor effort to begin listing wineries that may fit someones particular criteria. For example - Beringer does make some good wines - but you'll need to go upstairs (IMHO) to the reserve room or whatever they call it, tasting room to find it. With a little work & persistence you CAN find freebies, but I would say that is more likely in Sonoma than Napa. I have met some wonderful characters over the years such as Lou Preston (& they make great bread @ his winery) whom you'll likely find out roaming around the grapes if you visit or the guy @ Armida (whose name escapes me) who makes Poizon...
Bottom line - I prefer Sonoma to Napa - Napa was ruined by the initiation of tasting fees, in part caused by drunken college kids going to the Valley to get drunk for free every weekend. The tasting fees put a stop to that...But, I like being closer to the Coast & we often stay in the Jenner or Bodega Bay area when we visit. I also like Occidental & the new(er) Coastal area also has some good up & coming wineries as well. Particularly up in Mendocino County. http://www.mendowine.com/files/maps_directions.pdf
Bottom line - I prefer Sonoma to Napa - Napa was ruined by the initiation of tasting fees, in part caused by drunken college kids going to the Valley to get drunk for free every weekend. The tasting fees put a stop to that...But, I like being closer to the Coast & we often stay in the Jenner or Bodega Bay area when we visit. I also like Occidental & the new(er) Coastal area also has some good up & coming wineries as well. Particularly up in Mendocino County. http://www.mendowine.com/files/maps_directions.pdf
Apr 12th, 2013, 11:25 AM
#35
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SanParis2, Preston is a fun stop, isn't it? The bread is divine, and the wine is good, too
For those who aren't familiar with tasting room behaviors, I think it's good to be clear about what free tastings are. If you belong to the wine club, you get free tastings; if you have a coupon or a card from your hotel or someplace, you can get a free tasting. But what I want to point out is that you shouldn't attempt to pay for the tasting up front. Taste the wine, and if you buy a bottle or two, they will typically waive the tasting fee. If you show a real interest, the pourer will often offer additional tastes besides what's on the menu. This, at least, has been my experience. I think it's important to remember that the purpose of the tasting is to sell you wine, and that cuts both ways.
For those who aren't familiar with tasting room behaviors, I think it's good to be clear about what free tastings are. If you belong to the wine club, you get free tastings; if you have a coupon or a card from your hotel or someplace, you can get a free tasting. But what I want to point out is that you shouldn't attempt to pay for the tasting up front. Taste the wine, and if you buy a bottle or two, they will typically waive the tasting fee. If you show a real interest, the pourer will often offer additional tastes besides what's on the menu. This, at least, has been my experience. I think it's important to remember that the purpose of the tasting is to sell you wine, and that cuts both ways.
Apr 12th, 2013, 12:24 PM
#37
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But what I want to point out is that you shouldn't attempt to pay for the tasting up front. Taste the wine, and if you buy a bottle or two, they will typically waive the tasting fee. If you show a real interest, the pourer will often offer additional tastes besides what's on the menu. This, at least, has been my experience.
This is my exact experience too. And it has been my experience in Napa, Sonoma, Paso Robles, the Anderson Valley, Oregon, etc. I spent the weekend in Napa a couple of weeks ago and I don't recall paying for any tastings, but that is because I bought (a lot of) wine. That is the same way I avoid paying for tastings when in Sonoma or wherever.
The one kind of different thing is that there is a pretty big promotion going on with Visa Signature and Sonoma wineries that provides free or discounted tastings.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/visa-si...ignatureFlag=8
This is my exact experience too. And it has been my experience in Napa, Sonoma, Paso Robles, the Anderson Valley, Oregon, etc. I spent the weekend in Napa a couple of weeks ago and I don't recall paying for any tastings, but that is because I bought (a lot of) wine. That is the same way I avoid paying for tastings when in Sonoma or wherever.
The one kind of different thing is that there is a pretty big promotion going on with Visa Signature and Sonoma wineries that provides free or discounted tastings.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/visa-si...ignatureFlag=8
Apr 12th, 2013, 12:36 PM
#38
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
< I don't recall paying for any tastings, but that is because I bought (a lot of) wine. That is the same way I avoid paying for tastings when in Sonoma or wherever.>
LOL, us, too! It's a strategy, but it has a way of backfiring, too, in the form of too many cases of lovely wine! Or perhaps there's no such thing as too many...??
Once or twice we ended a tasting by simply asking to pay for it, and the pourer clearly understood that that meant that we had not found anything we liked well enough to buy. Sadly for our exploding wine cellar, those were the exceptions!
LOL, us, too! It's a strategy, but it has a way of backfiring, too, in the form of too many cases of lovely wine! Or perhaps there's no such thing as too many...??
Once or twice we ended a tasting by simply asking to pay for it, and the pourer clearly understood that that meant that we had not found anything we liked well enough to buy. Sadly for our exploding wine cellar, those were the exceptions!
Apr 12th, 2013, 01:26 PM
#39
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL, us, too! It's a strategy, but it has a way of backfiring, too, in the form of too many cases of lovely wine! Or perhaps there's no such thing as too many...??
That is what offsite storage facilities are for...
That is what offsite storage facilities are for...
Apr 12th, 2013, 01:29 PM
#40
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tg:
Well, if our statements are analogous, then we've agreed, haven't we?
Heavens, is this some historical event that needs celebration?
If so, I'm not going to do it with Napa Valley wine.
I've been to almost all the California wine regions - maybe not Temecula - for winetasting. I, too, usually go for the smaller "boutique" wineries to taste what the local region has to offer.
Napa Valley started the trend and its Cabernets and oaky Chardonnays were all the rage when it vaulted to fame and fortune. Me, too, I was caught up the Cab and Chard craze, but I found that I preferred the "buttery" variety of Chard more than the oaky ones.
Then the other wine regions started developing other grape varieties. Sonoma Valley, despite being the first region in California to grow grapes, didn't really catch fire until the 1980s. In a way, this lateness was a benefit, because it could (with a different terroir
) develop other types of grapes. Of the reds, it has Pinot Noir, Zinfandel and Syrah.
Further south, the "Rhone Rangers" started developing Syrah, Grenache, Mourvedre, Viognier grapes and some were blended into typical Rhone Valley wines such as Chateau-Neuf-du-Pape.
Meanwhile in the hot central valley of California, the Franzias were making gigantic amounts of bulk wine under all sorts of labels, including Two Buck Chuck, and selling for peanuts compared to the carefully cultivated wines of the "boutique" vineyards. The bulk wines strive for uniformity and longevity, the wines are usually the same year after year. If you buy one bottle this year and one bottle the next year of the same wine, it tastes the same no matter what year you bought it in (apart from buyers "aging" some wines). OTOH, the small-production, boutique wineries experiment all the time. If one buys a bottle of Merlot this year from a small winery, the next year it may taste very differently.
Napa Valley has also tried to expand into other grapes to up its appeal. Wineries have also gone into architecture in a big way, another marketing success as one feels awed by the architectural wonders of wineries such as Artesa. Napa Valley has carefully cultivated its reputation into "one of the premier wine regions in the world", etc. etc. A reputation which may or may not be deserved to some of us who live in California, as we find marvelous wines in others parts of California without all the hoopla.
Napa has benefited from the experimentation in the other wine regions. After all, Zinfandel and California champagne started in Sonoma County, but Moet & Chandon established its California branch, Domaine Chandon, in Napa Valley. It's the reputation of being in "one of the premier wine regions in the world" Their champagne is quite good but not all Domaine Chandon champagnes are equal. One must look for the smaller label "Methode Champenoise". That's the champagne to buy from them. Small secrets like that, but most Californians who go winetasting look for certain things. I'm certain there are Fodorites who have much better knowledge than I have who can recommend which wineries to go to and why.
As for our preferences right now, all our drinking wines come from Sonoma County, red, white and even the champagne. For cooking, I use Two Buck Chuck (which now costs more than two bucks), especially for drunken crab. The crabs love Two Buck Chuck!
So,dmcq, Napa or Sonoma? It's all a matter of personal preference. bluestar has linked to an excellent brief comparison, go with your own gut feel for which one appeals to you most. They are both great wine regions, you can't go wrong with either one. Happy imbibing!
Well, if our statements are analogous, then we've agreed, haven't we?
Heavens, is this some historical event that needs celebration?
If so, I'm not going to do it with Napa Valley wine.
I've been to almost all the California wine regions - maybe not Temecula - for winetasting. I, too, usually go for the smaller "boutique" wineries to taste what the local region has to offer.
Napa Valley started the trend and its Cabernets and oaky Chardonnays were all the rage when it vaulted to fame and fortune. Me, too, I was caught up the Cab and Chard craze, but I found that I preferred the "buttery" variety of Chard more than the oaky ones.
Then the other wine regions started developing other grape varieties. Sonoma Valley, despite being the first region in California to grow grapes, didn't really catch fire until the 1980s. In a way, this lateness was a benefit, because it could (with a different terroir
) develop other types of grapes. Of the reds, it has Pinot Noir, Zinfandel and Syrah. Further south, the "Rhone Rangers" started developing Syrah, Grenache, Mourvedre, Viognier grapes and some were blended into typical Rhone Valley wines such as Chateau-Neuf-du-Pape.
Meanwhile in the hot central valley of California, the Franzias were making gigantic amounts of bulk wine under all sorts of labels, including Two Buck Chuck, and selling for peanuts compared to the carefully cultivated wines of the "boutique" vineyards. The bulk wines strive for uniformity and longevity, the wines are usually the same year after year. If you buy one bottle this year and one bottle the next year of the same wine, it tastes the same no matter what year you bought it in (apart from buyers "aging" some wines). OTOH, the small-production, boutique wineries experiment all the time. If one buys a bottle of Merlot this year from a small winery, the next year it may taste very differently.
Napa Valley has also tried to expand into other grapes to up its appeal. Wineries have also gone into architecture in a big way, another marketing success as one feels awed by the architectural wonders of wineries such as Artesa. Napa Valley has carefully cultivated its reputation into "one of the premier wine regions in the world", etc. etc. A reputation which may or may not be deserved to some of us who live in California, as we find marvelous wines in others parts of California without all the hoopla.
Napa has benefited from the experimentation in the other wine regions. After all, Zinfandel and California champagne started in Sonoma County, but Moet & Chandon established its California branch, Domaine Chandon, in Napa Valley. It's the reputation of being in "one of the premier wine regions in the world"
Their champagne is quite good but not all Domaine Chandon champagnes are equal. One must look for the smaller label "Methode Champenoise". That's the champagne to buy from them. Small secrets like that, but most Californians who go winetasting look for certain things. I'm certain there are Fodorites who have much better knowledge than I have who can recommend which wineries to go to and why. As for our preferences right now, all our drinking wines come from Sonoma County, red, white and even the champagne. For cooking, I use Two Buck Chuck (which now costs more than two bucks), especially for drunken crab. The crabs love Two Buck Chuck!
So,dmcq, Napa or Sonoma? It's all a matter of personal preference. bluestar has linked to an excellent brief comparison, go with your own gut feel for which one appeals to you most. They are both great wine regions, you can't go wrong with either one. Happy imbibing!
