Hi
I've only just found this forum and have spent a happy day reading through a lot of the messages and goggling at photos. Great stuff! We have a road trip planned for September. It will be our first time to the USA (from the UK) - and I've worked for months on the itinerary! We originally planned (and booked) for June, but, because of sickness (mine) we had to cancel everything - and now it's to be September! Just thought I'd check it out here - but please don't criticise it too much as I ain't changing it again!! (Sorry it will be a bit of a long message!)

Day 1: Fly into Phoenix, 2 nights at Camelback Inn
Day 2: Pick up car - try to recover from jetlag - so what is a gentle way to spent the rest of the day? Rawhide??
Day 3: Down to Superior, for the Smallest Museum in the World (and I have a thing about Apache Tears!) - then Globe and up to Pinetop-Lakeside. BW Pinetop Inn.
Day 4: To Petrified Forest. Then Meteor Crater. Then Sedona. 2 nights Hyatt Pinon Pointe. Look at Flagstaff on the way? Oak Creek Canyon? Or should we save that til tomorrow?
Day 5: Free in Sedona. Not sure how to spend it yet - but Red Rock Crossing is a must.
Day 6: Via Flagstaff (and Lowell?) to GC (not the Williams way - the other way). Time for Sunset Crater? (I'm a geology nut)
At GC, we have just one night in the Kachina Lodge, canyonside room. Perhaps we'll have time to walk an hour of the Bright Angel Trail? (Although I hate heights!)
Day 7: Try to get up for sunrise. Then to Desert View and Cameron and Lake Powell (maybe time for the Dinosaur Prints and Horseshoe Bend?) O'night at the Wahweap Lodge(or whatever they call it now. I don't think we'll have time to do anything - maybe Antelope Canyon? Would've loved to have seen Monument Valley, but can't do everything unfortunately.
Day 8: I'm a bit worried about this one - not sure if it's too far a trip. We will be staying the Desert Pearl Inn at Springdale, Zion - but hope to drive to Bryce on the way. Is that a bit far?
Day 9: To Las Vegas. Overnight off the Strip (not really our scene, but we will have a drive through). Westgate Flamingo Bay.
Day 10: To LA (stopping at Calico Ghost Town - anything else?). 2 nights at Marriott Renaissance Hollywood Hotel. Tonight we have tickets for the Hollywood Bowl!
Day 11: Free in LA. As well as the usual, want to do La Brea Tar Pits and drive down to the coast.
Day 12: Up to Sequoia and overnight at the Wuksachi Lodge. Climb Moro Rock on the way? (As already said - hate heights!)
Day 13: To Yosemite. We have booked a little house in Yosemite West for 2 nights.
Day 14: Free in Yosemite.
Day 15: To San Francisco. Actually staying in Oakland; Executive Inn and Suites for 2 nights.
Day 16: Free in SF
Day 17: Fly home.

A bit of a whistle-stop trip - hope it won't be TOO tiring! Any further suggestions and comments welcome please (but as said, I can't really change anything!)

Can somebody enlighten me about dinner in the USA please? If we have dinner in, say, the El Tovar (haven't booked as yet) - do we have to have 3 courses, or can we just have an entree or a salad?

Thanks for reading all this!

Hi, I can't help alot, but I'll offer this. Skip Flagstaff on Day 4, since you'll hit it on Day 6, and Day 4 has a lot already.

Also, at dinner, you can order whatever you want - they won't force you to order 3 courses.

I am visiting Arizona at the end of September, and can't wait! I couldn't get Kachina lodge in the GC, so I am staying at Yavapai.

Have a great trip.

Karen

Hi Karen
I had the Yavapai booked until yesterday as well! There suddenly appeared rooms available at the Kachina - so keep looking (although we would've been happy with the Yavapai).
Hope you have a great trip too!

It's too bad day 8 is driving through to ZION with barely time for BRYCE. These are two spectacular national parks, both very different from anything else.

Are you sure ;-) you can't work in more time to see ZION & BRYCE? Each could use at LEAST 1/2 day drive through.

The stops at meteor crator / sunset crater do not need to be long ...Although you are a geology nut which might delay your visit to look at a hole in the ground

When you are at Petrified Forest, you'll also drive by Painted Desert area. Colourful photo stop.

Yes - you'll be tired by the end of your "whirlwind" tour but you'll be seeing a GREAT part of the USA.

Hi! Sounds like a well planned whirlwind trip!

A couple ideas: You can't just *stop* at Calico Ghost Town (unless it's reeeeally changed??) as its an amusement park for all day admission.

Also, while it is possible to stop at Bryce and still make it to Springdale, you will be *robbing* yourselves of some excellent viewing and hiking pleasures. You might want to shift your days around a wee bit to include *at least* 3/4 of a day at Bryce, then drive to Springdale, and have *at least* 3/4 of a day at Zion. (*At least* being the operative word.)

Whirlwind tours are the best. You'll have a great time!

Thanks to all for your replies!

I knew Bryce/Zion was going to be a problem. I originally had us booked into Ruby's Inn at Bryce and was just going to whizz through Zion on the way to Vegas. But then I saw the Desert Pearl Inn........ I don't know what can be done about it. We could drive straight from GC to Bryce (or nearer) and skip Lake Powell (ow!)? If it were up to me, I'd skip LA, but my son (movie-nut) would be totally distraught (and we want to visit the Build-a-Bear there! 2 middle-aged people and their grown-up son! LOL!)

Thank you very much for the info on Calico Ghost Town - don't want to be stopping there for longer than a glance - so will look for somewhere else to stop for some lunch! Preferably somewhere with rocks! (I'm doing a degree in geosciences!)

I need another day .....

But if we drive to Bryce from L Powell - and then have a drive/take the shuttle down the Canyon, couldn't we make it to Springdale by evening? We could then take the shuttle into Zion in the morning - and still get to Vegas by evening?

It's 5-1/2 hours driving Grand Canyon Village (centre) to Bryce Canyon National Park.

Then it's 3 hours (or less) from Bryce to Zion National Park.

Whew! You make me tired just reading this while I recover from an exhausting but wonderful trip to the southwest 2 wks ago, and we were in Yosemite/Sequoia/King's Canyon last summer. As I'm sure you realize, the more info you have and can plan the better use you can make of your time. Let's see if I can answer some of your questions or at least give you what we did.
Day 2 -Flagstaff-Got up at 3AM for sunrise hot air balloon ride in Sedona - definitely worthwhile. 2 hr Broken Arrow Pink Jeep tour also definitely recommend. Wish we had eaten at Cowboy Club in Sedona for cactus fries since I never heard of them anywhere else, but picnic lunch at Slide Rock State Park in Oak Creek Canyon and relaxing several hrs while boys played in natural water slide. Got to see scenery of Oak Creek Canyon on drive out since dark heading to Sedona for balloon flight. Dinner at Black Bart's Steakhouse and Musical Revenue-so/so but interesting. Star gazing program at Lowell Observatory interesting, but we were exhausted. Including the Spiderman movie, this was all in one day!
Day 3-5-Wapachi and Sunset Crater interesting, but minor. We hiked several of the trails, read all the info at Visitor's Centers. IMAX in Tuscayan before Grand Canyon esp. has great whitewater footage. Stayed in rimside cabins at Bright Angel which were fabulous! 2 dinners at El Tovar, 1 at Arizona room. I preferred food at Arizona room-incredible SW Caesar salad, steak. 2nd dinner at El Tovar I just got soup and salad. Breakfast each day in Bright Angel Lodge. Definitely get up for sunrise along rim trail, and if you need it to open your eyes, coffee shop in Bright Angel Lodge opens like at 5:30 AM. We took guided bus tours along east and west sides of south rim but too redundant and would only recommend along west and then drive yourself along east on exit out of park. Ranger programs wonderful, and if you really like geology, you should ck into this and maybe rest of group do something else. We did ranger programs on Condors and Fossils - very worthwhile. Hiked part of Bright Angel twice, and regret not doing more longer. Even if you are afraid of heights, you could try it. The path is not bad- just don't concentrate on over the edge, but I thought rock outcroppings were much scarier than trail. Wish we had so will have to return for this! Visitor's Center at GC out of the way and maybe not worth your time on such a tight schedule.
Day 6-7 Lake Powell Resort/Wahweap Marina Tour of Antelope Slot Canyon w/ Grand Circle Adventures very interesting and recommend. Ck out John Wesley Powell Museum website for times w/ various tour groups to suit your schedule. Sunset dinner cruise at lake on Canyon King - good prime rib, great scenery, commentary by captain of sites after dinner. Only ate breakfast buffet at resort which was great. Float trip on Colorado river next AM wonderful - my boys use to whitewater thought it would be boring, but fabulous scenery, relaxing, informative guide, and would highly recommend. Boat trip on lake through slot canyons disappointing - would not do this again. Boys also enjoyed tampoline at the lake beach if this is your thing!
Day 8-9 Bryce Canyon Just like Grand Canyon, you look into the canyon, and you must get down into them to really appreciate them. Did 3 hr ATV in Costo? Canyon which is similar and adjacent to Bryce which my boys really loved. I was praying alot! Stayed in cabins at Bryce, but fast food lunch at Ruby's - like fast food, but breakfasts and dinners at lodge very good. 2 hr horseback ride down into canyon really fun and interesting. Also more hiking since realized we didn't do enough at GC. Wonderful sunrises and sunsets.
Day 10-11 Zion Canyon -again in a cabin. This is like Yosemite where you drive to the valley and all this wonderful scenery is around you. IMAX and tubing on Virgin River in Springdale - enjoyable, but I hit most of rocks in the river and was exhausted after 2 hrs. Should have used my sons' idea of using sticks to fend tube off rocks! Hikes to Emerald Pools, Weeping Rock, and River Walk all easy. 2 hr free ranger bus tour in AM ok, but would use limited time hiking instead. Dinner at lodge great, lunch in snack shop ok, boys didn't like breakfast buffet in lodge. We had wanted to hike the Narrows, but I decided not to since didn't feel prepared and moderate chance of flash floods. Biggest mistake of trip since should have rented poles/insulated boots in Springdale 1st day when flash flood danger low and did IMAX and tubing on 2nd day.
Day 12- Las Vegas Cked out sights, but so hot and crowded. Monorail should be running now; we missed it by a wk. IMAX in Luxor on NASCAR wonderful, and I'm not a car racing fan! King Tut exhibit interesting, but ride in search of obelisk confusing. Tiger exhibit at MGM-they were asleep and looked dead. Didn't go to Shark exhibit at Mandalay Bay since decided too expensive. Security guard gave us comp tickets to roller coaster at New York/New York so enjoyed free ride but would not recommend it for cost. Statue show at Caesar's Palace Forum not worthwhile except for very small children. Bellagio's fountains fabulous even to "cool" teenagers and are a must see. Blue Man Group which was entertaining, but I wonder if worth the cost, but then everything is expensive here! Feet too tired at this point to go to Mirage, but I have seen the volcano before.
Day 12 Flew children back to east coast
Day 13 Flew back to Arizona by myself. In next several days, toured Petrified Forest/Painted Desert area which was very interesting, but doesn't take a lot of time. Drove through ShowLow and on to Pinetop/Lakeside area for dinner at Christmas Tree Restaurant - fabulous chicken and dumplings! Also had great lunch in Pine (2 towns close by each other but pass Payson)at ? House Restaurant after hiking at Natural Bridge State Park. On to Camp Verde, Montezuma's Castle, and Jerome which was very interesting "ghost" mining town which is now an artist colony. I flew in/out of Phoenix for the 2nd trip so you could do these areas which are only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Phoenix and escape the heat and the city!
Whew!
Yosemite and Sequoia are also wonderful, and we also stayed in Yosemite West and Wuksacki Lodge. If you have time, tour the Mariposa Grove either into Yosemite West or on your way out. Definitely recommend the tram tour in Yosemite Valley for lots of info, very enjoyable and also the one in Mariposa Grove if you go there. Great viewpoint and short hike near Yosemite West w/ turnoff on opposite side of road - Glacier Pt ?. Definitely hike some, ck out the ranger programs- we enjoyed one at night about the old Firefall. Moro Rock isn't bad and there are benches to sit on if you don't like the height. Crystal Cave was also interesting, but I don't think you will have time. Dinner at lodge in valley very good, and breakfast great in cafeteria there. Sequoia NP much cooler, and went horseback riding along giant trees. Trees in several different groves, but definitely follow trail - maybe a mile - through main grove. (Hope I'm not confusing Mariposa and Sequoia here!) Breakfast and dinner at Waksachi very good. Woke w/ deer herd right outside window in AM.
Sorry this is so long, but so much info, and I loved these trips so much. Have a fabulous time!

Thanks, wildblue! I do keep checking the NPS website, looking for a cancellation for a rim lodge, but no luck yet. I have 2 months yet, so I'll keep trying!

Karen

Nice trip!! Wish I could go along!

It's too bad you can't change your plans, as you are missing some of the best of that part of the country, yet going by them - Monument Valley and that most beautiful of canyons: Canyon de Chelly. If it were me, I'd skip the Petrified Forest and Meteor Crater. You'll be driving over so much desert that these two would just be more of the same.

On the California part of the trip, you are sort of backtracking going from Las Vegas to LA and then from LA to Sequoia (Too much of boring desert driving, IMHO). If you could change your plans a bit, I'd suggest going from Las Vegas through Death Valley, another terrific geologic vista, on up Highway 395 to Yosemite, then down through Sequoia to LA.

From LA you can speed up Interstate 5 in one day to SF, or take a couple of days and go along the coast through spectacular drives, especially along Big Sur.

At Sedona, Arizona, I was going to suggest that you climb up Bell Rock to view the sunset. Truly breathtaking! But then you said something about not liking to hike. Forget it then! Maybe the men in your family would want to do that.

Have a great trip!

Wow, Momof3Boys - you had some trip there! And it's what I would call "very active"!! Thanks very much for all of the suggestions - I will certainly bear them all in mind. (I have bookmarked the Cowboy Club website - though not sure about the cactus fries - or (even less) about the rattlesnake!).

I'm not sure whether I'm up to trampolining at Lake Powell!! LOL!

I am very excited about the trip - and you've whetted my appetite even further - and I was already ravenous!!

Momof2boys!

Hi! Sounds like a great trip! However, i agree with some of the above posters: I would definitely skip sunset crater and also make time for zion and monument valley. I think that's possible too...

On day 6, i would drive directly to the GC and stay overnight. (IMO, theres not much in Flagstaff anymore.)Unless you're doing some long hikes, that's enough time for Bright Angel.

On day 7, i would leave early (after seeing sunrise) and drive directly to Kayenta or Gouldings area, to see Monument Valley area. OR, if you must skip it, then head to Page and see Antelope Canyon, a tour done within and hour or so. As you head back to Bryce/Zion, (take 89ALT) you will go past Vermilion Cliffs, another gorgeous area.

By the way, Cameron is just a motel, restaurant and huge gift shoppe, ok for a pit stop but nothing more. If you do get to monument valley, Gouldings is the best place to stay but likely full by now. Kayenta has chain lodging and we stayed in their Holiday Inn our 2nd time there when gouldings was full. Actual views from there, too.

Day 8 - Drive to Bryce Canyon and explore as much as possible. If you have ressies in Zion at Desert Pearl (WONDERFUL place) then keep those.

Day 9 - See as much as Zion as possible, driving to Vegas later in the early evening. Since vegas isn't your scene, the later day drive will be easier in the heat and give you maximum time in the canyon area.

By the way, on day 5 in sedona, i would highly recommend taking a Pink Jeep Tour thru the canyon; its amazing!

And to really confuse you lol, as an afterthought, you might want to skip Petrified Forest on day 4 (not at all what is used to be, sadly), get to sedona earlier and stay only night, two days in sedona. That would free up another night to be used in the bryce/zion/page/monument valley area. That's probably what i'd do!

Whatever you do will be awesome and forever memorable. Happy planning!

Good luck with that, Karen. I hadn't been checking regularly - and then I just looked and there it was! The Yavapai will be fine though - I have a friend who was there last month and he said it was extremely comfortable, and nice and quiet, with easy parking - and the air-conditioning, of course! He didn't go much on the cafeteria though - and recommended (highly) the El Tovar and Bright Angel Restaurant instead.

Hi easytraveler
Thanks for your suggestions. I feel like saying, "Been there, done that", but I haven't really - only in my plans!! We had originally booked for June and, fearing the Tioga Pass might not be open, we were going to drive down (from Death Valley) and around the Sierras. Los Angeles had been nowhere in my plans! Then we had to change to September, so the pass will be open - but, the reason we had to change was because I have a blood condition, in which dehydration is dangerous - so we thought to skip Death Valley anyway (just in case). Well, I know that there are plenty of other deserts on the trip - but this one was perhaps one too many!! (BTW, while on this subject, should I bring a cooler [a bag variety] or would it be better to buy one when we get to the States?)

Up to a few weeks ago, there was going to be even more desert - as we were booked in at Tucson for 2 nights (after Phoenix) - but I thought to change that and go over the mountains, for a bit of 'cool'. I know they're nothing much to a lot of people - but the Petrified Forest and Meteor Crater are just places I dream of seeing ...

And Bell Rock! I don't mind hiking (much more so than the men who will be with me!) - but I do mind heights!! Is that close to the airport road? I had that pencilled in for the sunset.

This forum is getting addictive - I should be studying!

Oh dear - there's much thumbing going on between Arizona and Utah in my Collins Road Atlas of the USA right now! LOL!!

Gouldings are full - your're right, ellen. (Phew, don't have to think to hard on that one then! I think Monument Valley will be one of those play by ear things. We might get there; we might not - depends how we feel and how things go. If we do, we'll still get time to stay in Wahweap for the overnight, won't we? Or, if we go straight to Page from GC, how long will that take (with a short stop at Desert View and a quick look in Camerons)? I have NO idea about the roads in the US!

I hadn't actually considered using ALT89 - was going to go on 89. Should we change to the ALT? I see the .... dots on the road, so I guess it's scenic, but is it quick - or is it easy going?

I have had a thought on Zion/Bryce, without changing anything! How about if we drive straight from Page to Zion (not via Bryce, that is) on Day 8. If we're early enough, we can take the shuttle into the park for a lot of the evening (what time is 'dark' in September??. Then in the morning, we can drive to Bryce and journey to Vegas straight from there. We'd be there in time to see something of Vegas still (or my son would be disappointed) - although our accommodation there has a washer and dryer and I planned to do some laundry!

I thought of staying in Kanab instead of Wahweap - although Lake Powell is another of those places which I have always dreamed of seeing. How about this though, for a stay-over for a rock freak?!? http://www.kanabutahlodging.com/kanab-lodging.html

I should've booked another week ...

Would love to read a trip report when you get back.

I'm especially interested in your thoughts on Meteor Crater if you go there. We thought it was very commercial and just a big hole in the ground when we were there about 30 years ago. Admittedly, geology is not high on our list of interests, so would love to hear if it is really a place of interest for those who do love geology.

Hi maj
A fellow student (another very mature one!) went to Meteor Crater a few weeks back and his opinion of it was much as your opinion 30 years ago! Like me though, he felt he *should* go - as we've done heaps of stuff on craters and how they form. I bought a little tiny piece of the meteor off some website in Arizona, a few years back - so that's another reason to go - to see where it was *born* (although we'll never know where it came from, will we??) It's on the route anyway, so a small detour won't hurt (and we're prepared enough not to be too disappointed). They'd better not charge too much! My tutor, btw, suggested, when I mentioned it to him - that the best view of Meteor Crater was from a satellite!!
I will certainly try to do a trip report when we get back, of anybody would be interested!

Yes change to ALT89.

September "dark" shouldn't be till 9:00 pm or so.

The shuttle at Zion runs late (at least 9:00-9:30 pm) according to the national park website schedule so an evening visit there would at least get you a "drive-through". www.nps.gov

Page to Zion Nat'l Park is 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. An easy drive. You'll be able to spend the rest of the day at Zion.

(just a thought -- If you left Page "bright & early" you could be at Zion by noon, spend the afternoon there, and drive to Bryce that same evening)

Zion to Bryce is 3 hrs.


If you decide to go to Bryce in the evening, and see Bryce first thing in the morning -- I highly recommend the 2-hour horseback ride to the floor of the canyon & back up. It leaves at 9:00 a.m. so you'd have to be there the evening before, ready to go in the morning.

www.canyonrides.com

You could then leave Bryce after the horseback ride & drive to Vegas.

Bryce to Las Vegas is 4-1/2 - 5 hrs drive.

The time of day to drive "the strip" of Las Vegas is after supper ("dusk"). That's when all the lights & glitter look most exciting.


I don't think you will have a problem driving in the USA (other than being on the "wrong" side of the road). If you are from the UK, you are probably used to twisty, narrow roads! The area you'll be driving will be fine.

Heavy traffic will be an issue in L.A., making it harder to watch road signs, be in the correct lane in time for your turn-off, etc.

You'll come to realize how HUGE the USA is compared to the UK, once you see driving distances between places, and yet you are seeing such a TINY part of the whole USA.

Enjoy the trip though. It will be hectic & busy, yet memories to last a lifetime! If you can get up & going early each morning, you'll make the most of your day & be able to relax in the evening knowing you've reached your destination. We travel this hurried, whirlwind way all the time & LOVE it.

Hi, wildblueyonder!

Planning is soooo much fun!! ><

You are getting some superb advice - just wait till Utahtea checks in! She's the ultimate guru for that part of the country!!

Again, I'd suggest skipping the Petrified Forest. The name is far more alluring than the place. It's just more dry rocks after you have been driving hours through dry rocks -lo! The only difference is that these rocks were trees many eons ago. There are petrified rock art objets sold in many parts of Arizona - they'll give just as good an idea of what's out there in the "Petrified Forest".

Because of the length of driving through the desert, you need to plan on good destinations and nice/interesting places to stay. For example, I very much second ellen's opinion that Cameron is just a "pit stop". Also skip Flagstaff. And, unless it's on the way, skip Oak Creek Canyon too, since you are going to the Grand Canyon and the scenery is better on the drive to the Grand Canyon - just MHO.

Again, highly suggest you look into Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly.

As for Tioga Pass, I drove through it last September and it was fine. September is still too early for such heavy snowfall as to close the mountain passes. Going along Highway 395 is alpine country. You'll be glad to be in alpine country after all that desert!

The water situation: I'd suggest not bringing any coolers. Buy one when you get to Phoenix. You can get a good-sized one for about $20-$30 dollars at a Target store or a large grocery store. You can leave this cooler behind when you return home.

Also buy a case (four 6/8 packs) of bottled water. Place about half of these in the cooler with some ice. Best drink in the desert is water. Soft drinks just make you thirstier.

In Arizona, they also sell "neckerchiefs", these are large bandanas that you tie around your neck. They are filled with some kind of material that stores coldness. You put these neckerchiefs in the cooler in the ice, they cool down, then you wear them around your neck (the neckerchief, not the cooler!). These are wonderful for keeping the body temperature down.

Bring a wide-brimmed hat that will shade your neck. I have a foldable one that I got in Asia. Make me look like I'm wearing a lampshade - but, heck, it shelters me from the sun!

Make doubly sure that the air conditioning in your car works!!!

Other ways to keep cool: bring/buy a small fan, drive early in the morning or late at night - avoid driving during the peak hot hours - , buy a small spray bottle and spray yourself with "mini-showers" in the middle of the desert (your skin will be forever grateful!); and, if you must stop, try and find some shade, like an overpass or - gasp! - a tree!

Finally, somewhere you said you wanted to "zip through Zion". Ummm, you really can't "zip" through Zion, and even if you could, you wouldn't want to. Both Zion and Bryce are, as Syv has said, worth half a day's stop/drive.

BTW, you are going through so many national parks, you might want to calculate whether it's cheaper getting the annual pass for national parks. I know the price has gone up (We need to fund the war in Iraq somehow! Just kidding!), but it still might be worth it instead of paying individual park entrance fees.

Keep on planning!

Yes easytraveler - I forgot to mention to get the NATIONAL PARKS PASS for $50 per vehicle.

Bryce is $20 per car, Grand Canyon is $20, Zion is $20 --- so you've already saved money with a PASS just with these 3 parks.

https://buy.nationalparks.org/default.asp?ref=nps