escargot

I have many friends who agree with you Suze, - and I get the pause in tipping 20% or even 15-18% on a $100 bottle of wine, but if I am going to tip that on a $40 bottle then my mind set is the same on a $100 bottle -
also though, sometimes depending on who I am with, we don't order wine over a specific amount anyway

iceeu2

hey escargot.....when you ask your daughter, will you post back here and let us know what she says?

Thanks......

j_999_9

Yes, happytrails, that's why we tip an extra $1 because of the tax -- we're insecure. Sort of the same reason that some people comment on the mental state of people they've never met.

Holy Dr. Phil!

escargot

I will ask her when she returns tomorrow -

but in the meantime, I think the far more interesting question is NeoPatricks !!
Hasn't he hit the nail on the head when he said the following -

" guess I'm not clear how anyone can determine if someone else was tipping on the tax or not.
If the bill was $ 85 before tax and $92 after tax, but the customer left $16, how do you know they were tipping 17% of the taxed amount or 19% of the untaxed amount? And what difference does it make anyway? The waiter is still getting the same $16 either way. "

I laughed reading this - how do they tell? anyone?
do the waiters really calculate to figure this out?

Gekko

Easy. Here in New York City, I often dine with friends and we split the bill.

Say the bill is $400 for 4 people. We'll split it two ways, $200 per couple, and each add an agreed upon $40-60 tip.

I've never been involved in a discussion about excluding the tax or whatever.

The wait staff, of course, has no idea how we calculated the gratuity, but we certainly do. We didn't break out our calculators and obsess over tax like Morty Seinfeld. (Perhaps that behavior is more common among "people of a certain age"?)

escargot

There are hundreds of links on pre or post tax and alcohol/wine tipping - here are just a few -
Emily Post says tip on pre tax
Arthur Frommer says
"restaurants, bars, and nightclubs, tip service staff 15% to 20% of the check, tip bartenders 10% to 15%, "

oh dang, he doesn't say whether that is pre or post tax

it seems split to me, many saying tip on it all, many saying on the pre tax but not discounting the wine -

so I'd say no one has the correct answer for everyone !

http://www.citidex.com/342.htm

http://www.party411.com/queen07.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_1973_tip-waiter.html

http://www.findalink.net/tippingetiquette.php

http://www.yelp.com/topic/waA5RSKFa8vLLyjWfH2Qgg

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday/rude_situations.htm

http://www.robertkbrown.com/2003/01/...etiquette.html

NeoPatrick

Gekko, I have little doubt that the
"certain age" comment was meant as an insult to me, but it won't work. I don't obsess about the tax or not -- I'm merely discussing what other people may or may not do. Meanwhile I'm not insulted or embarrassed about my age.

With any luck you'll never get to be as old as I am -- which seems to be a horrible fate to you. You seem to always love indicating that anyone older than you has no taste and no judgement. Maybe you'll die soon so you won't fall into that category. Won't that make you happy?

And regarding your mentioned tip -- so what? You could say that you tipped 20% or maybe 23% on the taxed amount or 22% or 25% on the untaxed amount. It really doesn't make any difference, and try as you might -- there is no disagreement between you and I on this issue. I agree that it really doesn't make any difference what exact percent someone tips or what subtotal that tip is based on. The bottom line is simply how much money the waiter ends up with in his pocket.

sylvia3

I was kind of offended by Gekko's age comment; maybe some "people of a certain age" have actually worked all their lives for their money, unlike certain (X gen?) others, and don't care to waste it (why do the prices keep going up, along with the expected percentage gratuity? isn't one covered by the other?) or throw it around to impress others?

suze

oh believe me waiters can (and do) calculate percentages in their sleep!

beachbum

iceeu2,
Regardless of the bottle's cost, I usually include it in the 15% - 20% tip. I figure, if I'm willing to go from a $40 to a $60 or more bottle, why fuss about another couple bucks on the tip.....

But the question you asked (Why spend 2 - 3 times retail for wine in restaurants?) is what prompted my question about tipping on top of corkage. I wouldn't consider taking my own bottle into a restaurant unless it was a special bottle, and special occasion, so when I do, it's likely to be one that retails for $75 or more. I know I'll be charged $15 - $25 for corkage, but is there an expectation of a tip beyond that?

kimamom, if you're reading this, what do you do? You've often written about taking your own wine into restaurants.

iceeu2

beachbum, if you tip for the alcohol you purchase at the restuarant, then why wouldn't you tip on the bottle you take into the restaurant. They still provide you with the service. Right? I don't know how much tho.......

We recently were charged $5/pp beverage charge (wasn't called a corkage). I'm pretty sure the DH tipped an addl. amount on the extra $10. Btw, he doesn't share my same views on the gratuities. He tips on the full amount!!

So, I would say...yes, tip an addl amt when there is a corkage fee. Don't know how much.......

beachbum

I sorta feel like I should, iceeu2, but like you, I don't know how much is appropriate. I remember someone once suggesting tipping 15% - 20% of the cost of an average bottle from the restaurant's wine list (in addition to the corkage), which didn't make much sense to me.

Kingbuff

If I'd have had the same service as the OP, i'd not have tipped at all.

Come on. a 10 minute wait in a half empty restaurant, main courses before salads, and then getting the same courses back cold? The manager skipping your table (most likely because he knew you would complain)?
They'd get to keep the 50c change, but I wouldn't tip them.
Why tip for service if you hadn't recieved any?

HowardR

Shhhhhh....Don't tell gekko, but there are only two options: Either you live to be "of a certain age" or you die young!

iceeu2

I'm not sure why I even posted that about the wine cost in a restaurant. Just to rant, I guess...because you have to pay what you have to pay and I guess you just have to decide what it is worth to you, in price and service.

Anyway.......another question for you.
Morton's is promoting a great deal called the premium pair for two for $99. I'm thinking(don't know for sure) this same meal exclusive of tip is normally in the $150 range. So, assuming you have satisfactory service and you think it is worth 20% grat....Do you leave $20 or $30.

It's not certain $ amount off..not a coupon, just a special menu offering.

What say ye?

swaymock

If I were in the Morton's scenario, I'd pay the 20% on the $99 that I was charged. Yes, I realize that when there is a buy one/get one coupon, or even a $10 off coupon, you tip on the price before the coupon/discount is given. But in this case, you can only assume what the regular price might have been.

happytrailstoyou

Big tippers may be surprised to learn that their largess doesn't necessarily go to whom the intend: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/12/ny...l?ref=nyregion

NeoPatrick

From that article:
"But many restaurants say a different force is behind the lawsuits: greedy lawyers."

Well, isn't that a shock. NOT.

Rastaguytoday

Folks,

Talk about being all over the place.

I usually tip, whether on business or not, based upon service, which is what a tip is all about. My tips have ranged from 0% to 25%, all based on service.

Higher end restaurants are slightly different. Usually there is a separate tip for the somellier and wine, which is usually about 5%; unless a very good value wine is served that is excellent and based on the somellier's recommendation.

Good, not great, service is 15% of the food price and 5% of the wine/beverages price.

Chaque pour soi.

happytrailstoyou

The article says a lot of things, including: Lawyers and workers’ advocates say that some restaurateurs seem to believe that because some waiters can earn $1,000 or even $1,500, a week in tips, as well as the $4.60-an-hour minimum wage, they are entitled to slice some of their wages.

Maybe we should start tipping 25% and 30% on the tax.