marilynl

And just for good measure, here is a link to the Minnesota DOT advisory about black ice road conditions:

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/newsre...-blackice.html

TheWeasel

"I've often wondered about your choice of screen name, weasel. Now I know."

That's TheWeasel, not just weasel.

I'm surprised you figured it out. I haven't mentioned anything about taking my screenname from my cat in about a year or so. How'd you figure it out - go back and find my old posts where I talk about my cat?

P.S. Thanks for the link from the Duluth district of MnDOT. Very helpful.

droolpatrol

OK Hazelmn, you are getting a lot of opinions, but we don't know if they apply to you because you haven't shared much info about yourself, other than a house price and that you have a family.

How old are your kids? What do you all do for fun? Go to the symphony? Ice fish? Where do you live now and what do you like and dislike about it? What specific things did you dislike about Milwaukee, Des Moines and Omaha? Answers to those questions can help determine whether you would prefer Minn or Chicago. I grew up in a western suburb of Chicago. It was a suburb with great public schools. We could walk to the train and be in Chicago in half an hour. If you live and work in the suburbs, then city politics and cost of living issues won't affect you as much. Weather: can Chicago and Minneapolis really be that different? 5 degrees above zero and 5 degrees below zero are both miserably cold. Chicago is more urban and international, Minneapolis is more outdoorsy. Those are my impressions, though. Not a bad choice to have.

TC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice

From Wikipedia: "Black ice may form even when the ambient temperature is several degrees above the NTP freezing point of water......"Black ice" may also be cited as the cause of a car crash when, in fact, the real root cause may have been excessive speed, inattention, or some other fault on the part of the driver."

JJ5

droolpatrol, if you live in Cook County you are SO involved in dirty politics and structure- it doesn't matter if you live in the city or the suburbs. Anyone who has to build, do business, live there now, knows it.

Many places in the Western Suburbs that were 1/2 hour away, are no longer. My son says not even the train from Westmont is the same time in/out.
A commute of over 1 hour and 10 minutes is now considered "normal". Chicago is a case for doing lots of bottom line research re $$$ actual living costs, if you are considering it, Hazelmn.

Hazelmn

Thanks everyone. The black ice diversion aside, this has all been very helpful.

You asked more about us: We have two children, 6 and 4. We plan for this move to be probably the only one we do during their time in school. We are pretty much a family who does family stuff... would love to do more theatre, sporting events, etc., but in all reality, making it to those things a couple times a year would be doing pretty well for us.

We don't mind cold, which is why I decided to take a job in the northern region.

We enjoy being outdoors. We live in Denver right now. What we like about Denver - having nature places to go to on the weekends (although they require a decent drive), having 4 seasons, having enough "big city" stuff so we can enjoy a real nice dinner or show once in a while.

What we don't like about Denver: Traffic. Urban sprawl with endless earth-tone homes. The arid, brown topography. The fact that, even though we like to be outdoors, it is a 2-3 hour drive, often in traffic, to really enjoy the mountains (Denver is in the high plains... everyone thinks it is actually in the mountains).

Weather isn't a big deal. For God's sake, we're going through our 2nd shut-down blizzard in 2 weeks right now

We know enough about Chicago and Mpls to know we'd be happy in either place, but this thread has been very enlightening to us.

Worktowander

I've lived in neither Chicago or Minneapolis, but I've lived in suburbs or near suburbs of each of them for most of my life. Love them both, and you've gotten a lot of good advice about practicalities.

In fear of getting flamed (although it's been said by others on this board in the past), Chicago is likely to be friendlier.

There's this thing called 'Minnesota Nice." You hear about it a lot, sometimes used with the meaning on its face. But more often (and more true to the origin of the term), it refers to outward friendliness that only lets newcomers in so far. Or the practice of being nice at all costs to one's face, but being not-so-nice when the subject of the conversation is out of earshot.

It can be comforting to never hear anything but compliments. It's also nice sometimes to have a friend say, "You know, that dress is not the most flattering cut for you - wanna go shopping?"

My outgoing cousin and his family, who moved from out of state to a Minneapolis 'burb, calls it "Minnesota Ice."

I live in Minnesota and I love it. But the last time my husband and I were in downtown Chicago we had one of those "moments" about two days in - you know, when you both have the same thought at the same time? Ours was, "The people are so nice here."

Your mileage may vary, of course.

HonestAbe

Worktownander -

I agree with your assessment, and think that even Minnesotans are aware that "Minnesota Nice" is not always the case. It is true that they place a high value on being cordial and civil - I don't think anyone could claim that is a bad value to have. But, as with anywhere, some people are only nice on the surface.

The comparison between Minnesota Nice and the Chicago-type of friendly is interesting. Having lived in both places, I would say:
1. Each place has the same proportion of good-hearted and bad-hearted people
2. In Minnesota, there is definately a value that is placed on being cordial and warm upon the first meeting
3. It is probably true that in Chicago you get to the point of "brutal honesty" faster than in Minnesota
4. Many midwestern traits share the phenomenon that you see in Minnesota, and the reason Chicago doesn't have it is because so many who live there are transplants and maybe a bit more welcoming of newcomers
5. Minnesotans must not live in some type of "nice illusion" or fairy-tale land, otherwise there wouldn't be so many successful companies thriving there.

patg

Wow, I can hardly believe that people are being negative about a culture that's overly civil. I live just outside Chicago, and have seen an enormous increase in traffic and concurrent rudeness among drivers. In the last year I have almost been broadsided three times by people running red lights. Add in the speeders who are routinely doing 15 or more miles over the speed limit and the failure to observe any kind of courtesy to pedestrians, and you get the picture.

I'd like to add that $500,00 is only going to buy a modest house in many Chicago neighborhoods and suburbs. Expect to pay about $10,000 a year in property taxes on that house if it's in Cook County.

wliwl

Average low temps Chicago:
Nov 31
Dec 20
Jan 13
Feb 18

Average low temps Minneapolis:
Nov 25
Dec 11
Jan 4
Feb 9

JJ5

And expect to pay MORE than $10,000 in property taxes alone per year if you go to Will or most of Dupage Counties, unless you are way, way out beyond Chicago commute accessability. I'm 2 blocks from Cook and in Will and I'm over that in an aprox. 2000 square ft. ranch.

There was a long thread here on Fodors about Aurora being a "suburb" with commute time. That's exactly my point. That isn't and it isn't- but it is being marketed now as "possible". You do not want that life.

If you chose Chicago, chose a suburb with decent accessiblity, good schools, and on paper figure your bottom line total $$ on mortgage, taxes, water bill and accessibility levels (big issue in last 3 years- no water for lawns in some areas plus lake water prices being gouged by intervening suburbs and apportioned)utilities, and zoning issues. If you have a well, or need a well for water, strongly consider again.

There are immmense choices in the West and SW that you could afford. You sound like my kids and would not go "downtown" more than 4 or 5 times a year beyond a sports or show venue.

If your home base office is in the Western burbs, that would probably be best for multi-state access- especially with I-355 coming South to I-80 soon which would give you access to East as well as North, West and South. If you went far North that lake is going to be a bugger. I know 4 or 5 people who moved their offices for that reason. If your 5 state ares is all North or West, that would not be an issue.

The biggest up and coming places for house value that are farther out but have great schools, terrific looking houses, still reach everybody are Frankfurt and New Lenox areas. But if you go straight West of Chicago there are older, excellent, but also sometimes more problemed (yes, gangs but they do not want to confess it)places like Lagrange, Hinsdale, Brookfield (excellent school, park district and library systems)that may be greater access to all and if you can afford them- great for family life. But be warned about sticker shock.

angethereader

Interesting replies.

I'd say if I had one city to move to it would be Minneapolis. If you love the outdoors you'll fit right in. Our place in northern Wisconsin is a 6 hour drive for us. It's a 3 hour drive for our BIl who lives in Minneapolis.

The only reason I didn't urge my son to take the job there, rather than Schamburg (a western Chicago suburb) is I didn't want him to be 6 hours away. Now he's only 1.5 hours away.

AuntAnnie

Let me put my 2 cents in here!
As a Mom and a public school teacher, I am proud to say Minnesota schools are consistently ranked in the top three in the nation; last yeat our high school students had the highest SAT scores in the nation.

AuntAnnie

Well, are you impressed?
I am a teacher who can't spell/type! It should read YEAR not yeat!

HonestAbe

As a Minneapolis resident, I have one question: What the heck is black glare ice? I seem to be oblivious to it -- I guess?

travelergirl30

I just moved to the Twin Cities from Florida and I absolutely love it. Chicago is fabulous, too, but for a family and cutting down on your commute (at least a little) I'd vote for the Twin Cities. Also, you don't have to live in the suburbs-- St. Paul is known for having better schools that Minneapolis and is very family friendly. Pick us!

NewbE

We lived in Minnesota, also about an hour south of the Twin Cities, for 3 years, after having lived all over the country (though never in Chicago). Never have we enjoyed such a vibrant civic and arts culture.

Mpls has the highest per capita concentration of theater companies anywhere in the US--the highest! The Guthrie is a world-class theater company in a new building with cutting edge architecture that also attracts visitors like the Royal Shapkespeare Company.

Mpls boasts the Institute of Fine Arts and the Walker Arts center, both with architecturally distinguished additions built recently.

The Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul is the home of the Minnesota Wild and a great concert venue; Mpls has several excellent small concert venues.

I know you have young kids and may not get out to any of these attractions that often, but the point is that cities with a vibrant arts culture tend to be, well, more fun to live in! And kids in schools benefit from having these kinds of resources around them.

As for the civic culture, we loved that people up there are engaged with their local and state governments, their communities, and the larger world while maintaining a healthy tolerance of difference. MN has a rap for being white and Protestant, but the Twin Cities have welcomed the largest Somali population outside of Somalia, and just elected a Muslim to Congress.

As for the Mpls schools, they are outstanding at all levels. They may be going through a rough patch, but are still head and shoulders above almost any other public school system.

You'll have a wide range of areas and neighborhoods from which to choose, too--you can go urban, rural, or anything in between and still be within commuting distance of downtown Mpls. Great airport, too, efficiently run and not the ginormous mess that is O'Hare.

And MN is a spectacularly beautiful state! The lakes and rivers in and around the Twin Cities, Lake Superior up north...

As you can tell, we loved it there! Again, nothing against Chicago at all, but Mpls would be my pick hands down.

ChiDad

Could I put in a word for Madison?

If you are going to be driving more than flying within your territory, it should be high on your list. I've spent 35 years in Chicagoland (western suburbs, City and Evanston), 10 in the SF bay area and now 3 in Madison.

For a family, I'd say Madison is the hands down winner. Check it out if you haven't.

Kevin

Braunsky

This has been an interesting exchange - not quite a steel cage death match between two Midwest heavyweights, but strong opinions. I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I've lived in and near Minneapolis and visited frequently (seems like I've spent half my life on interstate 35). I've only visited Chicago. I love both towns, for different reasons and they are different. Some costs of living are lower in Minneapolis, but taxes are likely higher. My impression is you get better public services of all kinds in Minneapolis/Twin Cities - better schools, better public transportation, better snow clearance, etc... More high quality small liberal arts colleges in the Mpls area. Chicago has the edge in large universities. The weather is different - seems more consistently frigid in Mpls, but I've been frozen solid in Chicago. In Mpls people talk constantly about their lake house, or wanting a lake house, or how expensive their lake house is to maintain, or how to get to their lake house (there are so many lakes). In Chicago you have only the great inland sea that is Lake Michigan, so it's easier to know what people mean when they say "on the Lake." Probably fewer mosquitos in Chicago. Airports - my only real complaint about Mpls is they are dominated by Northwest, one of my least favorite airlines. In Minnesota you have a great social experiment in diversity where they've proved that people whose grandparents came from different villages in Norway can live together in peace and harmony. In Chicago you have an ongoing social experiment whether White Sox and Cubs fans can coexist outside of segregated neighborhoods. Politics still ain't bean bag in Chicago, and organized crime, while not so organized as it used to be, still exists. Mpls is not as liberal as it's made out to be, but on the whole politics is more open and transparent. I don't think you have to be related to an alderman to get the pot holes fixed on your average Mpls street. Well, that should be enough crass generalizations to offend people in both cities, so my work is done. By the way, I think you should reconsider Des Moines - we also lived there and liked it alot. The only real shortcoming we found was the airport - many fewer nonstop connections and higher ticket prices.

dgg

I've lived in Chicago a couple of times, but only traveled to Minneapolis on business. I like both cities very much. Why don't you take a couple of scouting trips? The North Shore of Chicago is prime, but $500,000 won't get you very far. There are many lovely western and northwestern suburbs that are worth investigating. I don't know the suburbs of Minneapolis, but I would imagine they are very nice and have great schools as well. Probably less pricey than Chicago too. I do think it's a little colder in Minneapolis, but given the climate of both, that is probably not a deciding factor. If flying for your job is a factor, you may want to check out routes. Minneapolis has a good airport, but may not suit your needs as well as the two Chicago airports. This is the pratical person in me, and I hate to sound negative, but when we've transferred (several times), we've always asked ourselves, "Where would we want to be if we had to suddenly start looking for a new job?" You may find that one city has more opportunities than the other in your particular industry or field.