Don:

San Diego is indeed a very attractive and clean city. Downtown is very nice and the waterfront is great. Very few cities have a waterfront like San Diegos which is very people friendly. You can walk for miles along it. Mission Bay is indeed very nice with a lot of parks and sheltered beaches. Mission Beach isn't the greatewt but Mission Bay is fine.

There are many very nice small cities and communities around San Diego.

I have lived in many areas of the US as well as 3 other countries. I believe that San Diego is one of the top cities for liveability. Great weather, clean and very nice.

I lived in LA for about 14 yrs (Santa Monica and WestLA) which included the
time period some woman claims 1/3 of women were raped there, and that is
nonsense. I'm a statistician and I know a lot of people don't understand or don't hear statistics correctly; often the media report them incorrectly, also--many people don't even ask themselves if some statistic could possibly be true; clearly this one couldn't and common sense would tell you that. Anyway, I was never accosted by men, etc in LA and I worked in Hollywood, Century City, and other places, lived in SM and WLA as I said, and visited friends all over the city. I moved from LA to Wash DC and THEN I was afraid. I never was afraid just walking from my car in my parking lot at night into my apt. in LA and I always was in DC. If you live in a good part of LA, it's not that dangerous disproportionaly at all for a big city. Also, it's not that expensive a city to live, it's cheaper than DC it seems to me as rents are more reasonable, utility costs are lower due to the climate, your wardrobe is cheaper, etc--it adds up. For a city of that size, LA has pretty reasonable rents. I agree SF is more similar to NY in compactness, ambience, etc and would be preferable for what you want. You can live in LA without a car, but I agree that you will be limited and not enjoy it as much, as the public transportation is okay around a small area (eg, within Santa Monica) but not for long distances. For arts, LA is good for theater especially, and music is pretty good, too. A lot of law
firms & banks are in downtown LA and major banks, and you could live and work down there without a car; there are some newer nice apts in that area, but I don't think you'd want to limit yourself so much. I really strongly advise against San Diego; it has a
small town, unsophisticated feeling compared to LA and SF and I get bored
there after a couple days; to me, it has disadvantages of a large city
(high real estate prices, bad traffic, etc) but not the advantages. Now,
for reality, because I do work with statistics, I happen to have the official crime rates for all major metro areas in the US for 1995--this is the forcible rape rate for some major cities (number of rapes per 100K pop):
Los Angeles 46
San Francisco 41
Long Beach 39
San Diego 30
Manhattan (NYC) 32
Phoenix 38
Philadelphia 51
Wash DC 53
Las Vegas 72
Dallas 82
Detroit 101
Atlanta 109
Memphis 127
Cleveland 139
So, LA does have a somewhat higher rape rate than Manhattan or San Fran, but it's not that high, and much lower than some of these other US cities (in general, about 51 pct of the US pop. is female so the rate of 46 rapes per 100K total pop is about 46 rapes per 51K females; by age grp, approx. 2/3 of the female pop is in the age range where most rapes occur (age 14-64), so the rape rate in LA is about 46 rapes/34K
females aged 14-64, which is hardly equiv. to one out of three women being
raped, even over an entire lifetime of accumulated probability. My bottom line is I think you'd like SF better, but on a moderate income, LA is better and a great city also; but you will prob want to buy a car. Thought: If you work in investment firms and have only a mod income and need to worry about costs, maybe that business isn't your forte as even beginners make a lot in it (or your idea of moderate is a lot diff. than mine)--LA is cheaper than NY, NY & SF are prob about the same.

All that doesn't change the fact that So Cal sucks.

Is it possible to live close to the beach in San Diego or North County for
under 800/month rent? I'm thinkimg of moving out there from Chicago (ugh).

Charlotte, You might be able to put up a tent in an RV lot for tha t amount to be close to the ocean.

Message to MINNY: By the tone of your sentence, tell me, just what part of the country is your trailer located in anyway?!? And how many front teeth are missing from your foul mouth as well?!?

Living near the beach for under $800 /mo is virtually impossible. Rents have increased a great deal in the last couple of years. You can't get very much inland for less than $800 /mo.

Hi Caitlin - nice to run into you again on these boards.

As far as my assessment of CA - I was definitely looking through SoCal eyes when I referenced a more laid back attitude and the need for a car. San Francisco may be the city that most resembles NY (and what Dorna is looking for), but when she mentioned she was looking to live on a somewhat moderate income, SF just doesn't seem to fit the bill. I grew up in the Bay Area, my folks still live there, and I've seen how much it's changed over the past 5 years. That's why I suggested she consider Southern CA.

On a different subject, I've been loving NY life - we eat out quite a bit! We seem to go out downtown a lot. Looking forward to experimenting more around home. I will have to go back to our forum and write down the names of those restaurants you recommended.

I lived (well existed) in LA for 14 years and let me tell you that it is a hellhole! In that time I was held up at gun point once, at knife point another, had 3 good friends murdered in separate crimes, had friends robbed, had my car broken into repeatedly etc etc. It's not safe to be a single woman in LA! I did not live in what was considered bad neighborhoods either.
For the first year I was in LA I didn't have a car and rode the bus, but only went out with friends as the bus stops are so dangerous at night...and even when I was out with another woman we were repeatedly accosted by creepy men at bus stops. It's a horrible, horrible city that I dred ever having to return to someday for any reason. Go to SF instead if you have any brains!

S.F. and bay area is a wonderful area. However, IF you can even find a vacant apartment or house, for that matter, be prepared to pay an average of $1,200 to $1,500 a month rent by yourself, or even more. The East Bay is a better choice, with BART and AC Transit (bus)
Just choose living along a BART line which is easier said than done. In Walnut Creek (25 miles east of S.F.) the weather is warm and wonderful, and an apartment on the BART line will be approx. $1,500 (possibly $1,200) if realy lucky. Rents out here and real estate values are out of control. If you have a fabulous job and money's no
object, then go for it. However, I'd hate to be out there scrambling to get a place. And when a place becomes vacant, you have lots of competition.
Good luck to you.