Recent New York City restaurant experiences
Oct 9th, 2009, 01:38 PM
#21
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Note re "Greek" diners. Fact is - just about every diner is owned by a Greek - just a fact of life in NY (and elsewhere). They are not Greek restaurants but often do show a Greek salad or maybe mousakka on the menu. They have the best looking waitresses and that's because the Greek owners know whom to employ. And they call you "hon".
And BBQ: Daisy Mae does a very good BBQ - gets a good mention in Michelin's NY restaurant guide. Slightly out of the way on 10th Ave. - but worth the detour.
and SF3707 - sure you're a tourist but that doesn't mean you don't want the best bang for your food buck and you generally don't get that at the places most frequently patronized by tourists.
And BBQ: Daisy Mae does a very good BBQ - gets a good mention in Michelin's NY restaurant guide. Slightly out of the way on 10th Ave. - but worth the detour.
and SF3707 - sure you're a tourist but that doesn't mean you don't want the best bang for your food buck and you generally don't get that at the places most frequently patronized by tourists.
Oct 9th, 2009, 05:54 PM
#24
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Oh and by the way nytraveler - you may think chicken and waffles is "weird" but chicken and waffles is a quite respected and quite popular soul food dish. Years ago, when I was working on a film with older jazz musicians including Dizzy Gillespie, these kind artists told me about 'splurging' on chicken and waffles after late gigs - either at Wells' in Harlem or later in the '70's in LA at Roscoe's. Of course, 20 years on, they were all battling heart disease! But it can be great.
Here's a good article about it
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/restau...ent?oid=287614
Here's a good article about it
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/restau...ent?oid=287614
Oct 9th, 2009, 05:55 PM
#25
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jroth said: "bachs - Noting that Frommer and Fodor ( dare I say this here?) are considered reliable sources for restaurant recommendations is a bit questionable."
jroth, I'm not necessarily saying that, but you do raise a valid point -- what's the most reliable source for restaurants? Good question. Given that it's not unusual to see poor, tourist trap (to my way of thinking, at least) restaurants such as Barking Crab and Union Oyster House in Boston guidebooks, am thinking one needs to approach such listings with healthy skepticism. Zagat's can be of interest, but isn't foolproof either. I've usually had best luck at the chowhound website, especially if the forum is an active one (not at all a fan of the site's moderators, though). BTW, more or less agreed about Yonas Shimmel -- been around forever, but in my experience a place that dishes up just OK knishes. Problem is, the only good way to find out is to try the food, which I did.
Aduchamp1, am thinking if I hit Totonno's again, will ask for the crust not to be well done, which seems to be their default. There are folks who like well done pies with "crust char," but for me it's just burned food and not a pleasure. The toppings were good and in good proportion, and will definitely restate that with a different crust, this could be a really good pizza.
k_brklyn, there was no wait at Amy Ruth's when I went shortly after opening on a weekday, and really liked the fried chicken and waffles.
nytraveler, the idea of fried chicken and waffles seemed weird to me too, but I was game to try it. Have read that the combo came about because of extreme late-night Harlem diners who couldn't decide between breakfast and dinner, so lumped them together. Surprisingly, it worked, at least for me. They also do fried whiting, rib-eye steak, fried catfish, smothered chicken, fried shrimp, or chicken wings paired with waffles.
jroth, I'm not necessarily saying that, but you do raise a valid point -- what's the most reliable source for restaurants? Good question. Given that it's not unusual to see poor, tourist trap (to my way of thinking, at least) restaurants such as Barking Crab and Union Oyster House in Boston guidebooks, am thinking one needs to approach such listings with healthy skepticism. Zagat's can be of interest, but isn't foolproof either. I've usually had best luck at the chowhound website, especially if the forum is an active one (not at all a fan of the site's moderators, though). BTW, more or less agreed about Yonas Shimmel -- been around forever, but in my experience a place that dishes up just OK knishes. Problem is, the only good way to find out is to try the food, which I did.
Aduchamp1, am thinking if I hit Totonno's again, will ask for the crust not to be well done, which seems to be their default. There are folks who like well done pies with "crust char," but for me it's just burned food and not a pleasure. The toppings were good and in good proportion, and will definitely restate that with a different crust, this could be a really good pizza.
k_brklyn, there was no wait at Amy Ruth's when I went shortly after opening on a weekday, and really liked the fried chicken and waffles.
nytraveler, the idea of fried chicken and waffles seemed weird to me too, but I was game to try it. Have read that the combo came about because of extreme late-night Harlem diners who couldn't decide between breakfast and dinner, so lumped them together. Surprisingly, it worked, at least for me. They also do fried whiting, rib-eye steak, fried catfish, smothered chicken, fried shrimp, or chicken wings paired with waffles.
Oct 9th, 2009, 07:44 PM
#26
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BachsLunch, you raise an ever challlenging question for travelers and travel boards reagrding the reliabity of the reviewer.
When I read Chowhound or Menupages, half the people have no idea of which they speak. I am unfamilar with many cuisines, so how am I to know which half are dummies?
Zagat's. When the vast majority of the most poular restaurants are expensive, you have idea whether you budget and eating habits will coincide and how important is ambience. I also think the herd mentality is evident when certain places are over rated.
The real problem is with indiciudal reviewers. Unless uyou have seen their recommnedations and have actually eaten there, you have no idea whether they were valid or not.
Fodor's and Frommer's are an odd combination of safe and quirky. I see places that would not recommend to my cousin I cannot stand but then other selectiosn show discernment.
Frommer's and Fodor's are mainstream guides and I guess they need to satisfy a mainstream audience.
When I read Chowhound or Menupages, half the people have no idea of which they speak. I am unfamilar with many cuisines, so how am I to know which half are dummies?
Zagat's. When the vast majority of the most poular restaurants are expensive, you have idea whether you budget and eating habits will coincide and how important is ambience. I also think the herd mentality is evident when certain places are over rated.
The real problem is with indiciudal reviewers. Unless uyou have seen their recommnedations and have actually eaten there, you have no idea whether they were valid or not.
Fodor's and Frommer's are an odd combination of safe and quirky. I see places that would not recommend to my cousin I cannot stand but then other selectiosn show discernment.
Frommer's and Fodor's are mainstream guides and I guess they need to satisfy a mainstream audience.
Oct 9th, 2009, 10:49 PM
#27
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It's kind of silly to suggest that New York is NOT a BBQ town. Danny Meyers opening Blue Smoke and Adam Perry Lang opening Daisy Mae's have made it serious business. While those, Dinosaur, and Virgil's seem to rule the roost, there are some good BBQ joints in Manhattan. And while I personally think Blue Smoke probably has the best food, if you want to spend half as much, Virgil's comes in a very close second (and one of the few places you can get really good barbequed lamb). If you're a local though, you'll just have to get over your silly notion that if it's near Times Square it HAS to be bad. Some locals even like LeBernadin despite its proximity to Times Square, of course some locals must think it's just another tourist trap since it's so close to Times Square. Give me a break.
Oct 10th, 2009, 05:29 AM
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A recent article in the NYTimes reveals how the ownership of Diners is changing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/ny...rsnj.html?_r=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/ny...rsnj.html?_r=1
Oct 10th, 2009, 09:10 AM
#31
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Auduchamp, Becco and Tricolore are mediocre restaurants in my book. That isn't the point.
My point, which you will never get, is that it is just as silly to say that EVERY restaurant in the Times Square area is BAD as it is to say that EVERY restaurant in SOHO or any other neighborhood is GOOD. There are good, mediocre, and bad restaurants all over Manhattan -- trying to say that all in one specific area are specifically good, bad, or mediocre is just plain idiotic. But again, you feel you are right that ALL restaurants in the Times Square area (which most people regard as a whole lot larger area than simply Times Square) have to be bad simply because of where they are. Anyone who believes there are NO good restaurants in the Times Square area (including the surrounding theatre district for example) just isn't thinking with a clear head.
Amiable while I was away? You mean because no one dared to point out how silly you were being with your "there are no good restaruants unless you get away from central Manhattan" crusade? Yea, it always seems amiable to the person who is spouting nonsense and no one is checking him on it.
My point, which you will never get, is that it is just as silly to say that EVERY restaurant in the Times Square area is BAD as it is to say that EVERY restaurant in SOHO or any other neighborhood is GOOD. There are good, mediocre, and bad restaurants all over Manhattan -- trying to say that all in one specific area are specifically good, bad, or mediocre is just plain idiotic. But again, you feel you are right that ALL restaurants in the Times Square area (which most people regard as a whole lot larger area than simply Times Square) have to be bad simply because of where they are. Anyone who believes there are NO good restaurants in the Times Square area (including the surrounding theatre district for example) just isn't thinking with a clear head.
Amiable while I was away? You mean because no one dared to point out how silly you were being with your "there are no good restaruants unless you get away from central Manhattan" crusade? Yea, it always seems amiable to the person who is spouting nonsense and no one is checking him on it.
Oct 10th, 2009, 09:30 AM
#32
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Neo-
I am just saying that in your abesnce there were disagreements without recriminations, name calling, an accusatory tone, and words like idotic.
I have a little story for you.
A distant cousin visited New York who claims to be a foodie. They "found" Roberto Passon and were proud of themselves. I sent them to Supper on East 2nd Street which about the same price and they said there is was no comparison, that Supper was far superior.
That said, please name one restaurant in the theatre district that you would recommend if you were coming from another neighborhood.
I am just saying that in your abesnce there were disagreements without recriminations, name calling, an accusatory tone, and words like idotic.
I have a little story for you.
A distant cousin visited New York who claims to be a foodie. They "found" Roberto Passon and were proud of themselves. I sent them to Supper on East 2nd Street which about the same price and they said there is was no comparison, that Supper was far superior.
That said, please name one restaurant in the theatre district that you would recommend if you were coming from another neighborhood.
Oct 10th, 2009, 10:05 AM
#33
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I'll mention four without even spending any time thinking about it. In alphabetical order: Chez Josephine, Lattanzi, Orso and Red Eye Grille.
PS to Aduchamp1: Your little story is merely one little story that hardly makes it qualify as a rule of thumb.
PS to Aduchamp1: Your little story is merely one little story that hardly makes it qualify as a rule of thumb.
Oct 10th, 2009, 12:43 PM
#34
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Auduchamp, say what you want, but my suggesting that the opinion that there are NO good restaurants in the Theatre District or Times Square is an idiotic one, is nothing compared to the name calling you have done to me -- including the time you took it upon yourself to slam me in a post about a GTG I was to be at saying horrible and totally uncalled for (and incorrect) things about me. Now THAT was name calling! You'll be hard pressed to find me doing anything even remotely that bad. But yes, I disagree with one specific opinion of yours. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes (I realize how horrible it is to have someone give an opposing opinion to yours --GASP), then so be it.
Besides, you totally miss the point again. In 99 out of 100 cases, the person is not looking for a restaurant in that neighborhood and coming from another one. Yet you invariably suggest that if they are already in one neighborhood and are seeing a show in that neighborhood and then spending the night in that neighborhood -- they should go through the hassles of double transportation, schedule(difficult with a show), and time restraints -- and travel to another neighborhood simply because there is NO decent place to eat where they are. NONSENSE. (and if you want to call that name-calling, well, so be it).
What would your little story have to do with someone staying within two blocks of Roberto Passon, seeing a show, and wanting dinner before or afterwards and returning to their hotel? You or your friends may like Supper better (it's awfully hard though to compare two restaurants based on one visit each -- perhaps they ordered well at one and not so well at the other -- every restaurant has some dishes better than others). But it makes little or no sense for someone to try to go to the East Village before a show or afterwards and going through two difficult taxi rides (have you ever tried to get to a Broadway theatre at showtime or tried to get a taxi after a show?) Just as it makes no sense if you live in the East Village to head to Roberto Passon just for dinner then return home. See how that works? No one here is saying the the restaurants in Times Square area are the BEST. But even you admit that your foodie friends thought Roberto Passon was GOOD and they were proud of their discovery. Isn't that all we're really talking about here?
By the way, I haven't been "gone" from here. I've been offering help on lots of posts (there IS a world outside of NYC, you know). I just hadn't happpened to see that silly age old "there are no good restaurants near Times Square" comment in ages.
Besides, you totally miss the point again. In 99 out of 100 cases, the person is not looking for a restaurant in that neighborhood and coming from another one. Yet you invariably suggest that if they are already in one neighborhood and are seeing a show in that neighborhood and then spending the night in that neighborhood -- they should go through the hassles of double transportation, schedule(difficult with a show), and time restraints -- and travel to another neighborhood simply because there is NO decent place to eat where they are. NONSENSE. (and if you want to call that name-calling, well, so be it).
What would your little story have to do with someone staying within two blocks of Roberto Passon, seeing a show, and wanting dinner before or afterwards and returning to their hotel? You or your friends may like Supper better (it's awfully hard though to compare two restaurants based on one visit each -- perhaps they ordered well at one and not so well at the other -- every restaurant has some dishes better than others). But it makes little or no sense for someone to try to go to the East Village before a show or afterwards and going through two difficult taxi rides (have you ever tried to get to a Broadway theatre at showtime or tried to get a taxi after a show?) Just as it makes no sense if you live in the East Village to head to Roberto Passon just for dinner then return home. See how that works? No one here is saying the the restaurants in Times Square area are the BEST. But even you admit that your foodie friends thought Roberto Passon was GOOD and they were proud of their discovery. Isn't that all we're really talking about here?
By the way, I haven't been "gone" from here. I've been offering help on lots of posts (there IS a world outside of NYC, you know). I just hadn't happpened to see that silly age old "there are no good restaurants near Times Square" comment in ages.
Oct 10th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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Neo-
I know it makes you feel gallant to be the defender of the downtrodden tourist. It is a bit condescending to think they need your assistance but please carry on.
And of the restaurnts HowardR mentions, the only one people would bemoan if it closed is Chez Josepshine and not for the food or price but for the host.
I know it makes you feel gallant to be the defender of the downtrodden tourist. It is a bit condescending to think they need your assistance but please carry on.
And of the restaurnts HowardR mentions, the only one people would bemoan if it closed is Chez Josepshine and not for the food or price but for the host.
Oct 10th, 2009, 03:41 PM
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I don't consider it "condescending" to let tourists headed to the theatre district and who are looking for a decent place to eat know that they DON'T "have to leave that area if they want a decent restaurant." On the other hand I think it is totally condescending to tell poor unsuspecting tourists who are going to New York FOR Times Square and theatre and the midtown attractions and who are staying in that area -- that they are apparently dolts with no taste if they actually enter the doors of any restaurant in that area because they are all really bad. Suggesting they have to get out of that area if they want a good meal is not only condescending -- it's simply hogwash.
You may call that being a defender of the "downtrodden tourist" -- a knickname which alone shows how you feel about tourists. I just call it being helpful and trying to get them not to believe all of the hogwash being spouted off here.
By the way, your determining the "only one PEOPLE would bemoan" is also CONDESCENDING. Believe it or not, not everyone has the same taste as you. You really shouldn't talk about your own tastes and then act as if "all the people who matter" have spoken. There are plenty of midtown restaurants (including the ones Howard mentioned) that plenty of people would bemoan if they closed -- and I'm talking about New Yorkers, not just tourists. But of course you know you are right and I am wrong, and that YOUR opinion of what's good is the only one that really matters.
You may call that being a defender of the "downtrodden tourist" -- a knickname which alone shows how you feel about tourists. I just call it being helpful and trying to get them not to believe all of the hogwash being spouted off here.
By the way, your determining the "only one PEOPLE would bemoan" is also CONDESCENDING. Believe it or not, not everyone has the same taste as you. You really shouldn't talk about your own tastes and then act as if "all the people who matter" have spoken. There are plenty of midtown restaurants (including the ones Howard mentioned) that plenty of people would bemoan if they closed -- and I'm talking about New Yorkers, not just tourists. But of course you know you are right and I am wrong, and that YOUR opinion of what's good is the only one that really matters.
