Skiergirl

I live in NYC and I absolutely DO NOT do this, but I was wondering how someone would find out if people in your building are renting their apartments illegally on a nightly, weekly, or monthly basis? I live in a condo and currently there are about six apartments where my doormen tell me there is constant movement, i.e. new people arrive every week or every few weeks. They claim to be "family" but there is not much my building can do since it's condo - i.e. as long as these people have keys they are allowed into the building. Seeing as I am a homeowner I want the people in my building to respect the property and not devalue the place, so I went searching to see if I could find proof of this activity online at airbnb.com. I didn't find anything but that's just one site. Approximately five other apartments that I know of are owned by foreigners from one country and that's a whole other mess - kids running wild, noise galore - too much time spent complaining to management and the doormen on mine and my neighbors' parts!

So if you were sleuthing around and wanted to see if your neighbors were renting illegally in NYC where else would you go to look? Thanks in advance for any insight or tips to figure this out.

tracys2cents

It might not be vacation renting going on, these people might be coming there to sell their kidneys or something. I'd lay low, you don't want to uncover any unlawful activity and get the mob after you.

SusieQQ

Be careful, Doug will shut this thread down! He wrote that he didn't want anymore posts on the subject of illegal rentals in NYC.

nytraveler

Have you looked into your condo rules in detail? In co-ops tenants are not allowed to sublet at all without board approval (long- or short-term). Have you spoken with the managing agent so you understand if the tenants have the right to sublet at all.

If there are no rules about them subletting, you can only make complaints about noise, damage to property or other inappropriate behavior.

If there are rules against subletting and you believe some tenants are doing that you will need to search a bunch of sites (craig's list, vrbo and any other you can find offering short-term apts in Manhattan) until you find out who is doing it. Do not use your regular email to rspond to these people - think the only way to get the actual addresess - but set up a separate one based on a variation of your name. Then if you find ads for apts in your building just forward them to your managing agent with a complaint. The agent should be able to address this with the owner - based on the regulations in your ownership agreements.

In our co-op the consequences include monetary penalties, having to pay for the cost of putting new locks on the apt - and eventually rescinding their lease - so the bank forces the owner to sell the apartment.

As for misbehaving children - again that should be handled by the managing agent - esp if they are doing damage - which can be charged back to the parents. (And this is the reason we live in a co-op versus a condo.)

jubilada

<pproximately five other apartments that I know of are owned by foreigners from one country and that's a whole other mess - kids running wild, noise galore - too much time spent complaining to management and the doormen on mine and my neighbors' parts! >

What is the relevance of the fact that these are "foreigners from one country'?

Skiergirl

Nytraveler - thank you for your response. I used to live in a co-op and we never had these issues. I chose a condo this time because there is more flexibility but that also means very lax rules and unfortunately some nutty people who apparently don't care as much as my co-op neighbors did about keeping up the value of the building.

Tracy - whatever

Susie - I didn't know Doug wrote anything about this. I usually don't follow those threads as it seems to be the same stuff written over and over, and all I knew is that it was illegal. I didn't even think of looking online until I read an article in the NYT this weekend/last week about people over in Stuy Town doing some investigating as it seemed like a hotel over there.

Jubilada - I don't know what the relevance is except a block of people (foreigners from another country, and it really doesn't matter which country as they could also have been from the United States and I'd feel the same way about them) bought 5 apartments and those tenants and the insane amount of people they pile into these units have caused considerable damage throughout the building, smoke like chimneys, and run wild through the hallways at all hours of the night. Funny enough the apartments I think are functioning like b and b's are not those apartments.

That's all I know. I just wanted to know if there were other sites I should be looking on besides airbnb and thanks NYT for reminding me of the others you suggested.

doug_stallings

I only wrote what I did because this subject hijacked several threads by the same poster, with more people debating the morality or immorality of illegal rentals and ignoring the OPs questions. These things take on a life of their own. However, that thread remains alive and can be added to.

This thread is the place to discuss, so discuss away. It's travel related, so I guess it can live in the US forum, though if people get too vitriolic, it could be moved over to the Lounge.

Bowsprit

The people who seem to now be supporting the practice of promoting illegal rentals should be ashamed of themselves. You are doing a disservice to travelers and to the people of NYC.


Keep up the good work, Doug. Maybe someone can start a thread on "How to buy illegal knockoffs without getting locked in the back room."

SusieQQ

>>>Now please a favor: Let's leave the discussion of illegal this and that to a different thread. Discuss it in the Lounge, not here unless you are giving a well-placed warning to a tourist who may be scammed. We don't need an endless discussion of the morality of renting an apartment short-term in Manhattan. And I'm getting tired of it ... enough that I may ask the moderators to shut down this and other threads if certain posters don't stop harping.

HappyTrvlr

Board approval after screening is normal for a condo.

kenav

Skiergirl - Have you talked to the Condo Board?

VidaNaPraia

"What is the relevance of the fact that these are "foreigners from one country'?"
@jubilada--
Don't know what the situation is at this particular location, but it does not have to be some sort of racist thinking, as you may be implying. For one example, in Brazil people feel they have the perfect right to play music 24/7 at the volume of their choice, and no one (close neighbors)says anything, mostly because "getting along" is considered more important in that culture. Living next to this, if one is not used to the culturally-based idea that one must endure it without protest, when such a group moves into your building in the US, could be difficult for someone who understands the concept of noise pollution.

cw

Some B and B websites also have apartments, take a look at those. VRBO and craigslist are the main sites, I would think. Good luck. It's hard to get around the "friend or family" excuse though unless you have that proof.

Happy Trvlr, I don't know of any condo board that screens or approves new owners. This is in Massachusetts. Only co-ops do that here.

NeoPatrick

"Be careful, Doug will shut this thread down! He wrote that he didn't want anymore posts on the subject of illegal rentals in NYC."

Really? I realize Doug has explained himself here already, but I still have to ask, since you still don't seem to be able to interpret his original post. Is that how you'd interpret this comment by Doug? No wonder people have such a hard time communicating here when comments get so completely turned around!


"Now please a favor: Let's leave the discussion of illegal this and that to a different thread. Discuss it in the Lounge, not here unless you are giving a well-placed warning to a tourist who may be scammed."

And surely you can understand when he threatened to shut down "this or other threads" he was referring only to what he had already made clear (or at least clear to most people, I would think)-- threads that were not about illegal rentals but rather threads about tourist questions. How is that so difficult to understand?

kenav

If Skiergirl is in a condo apt., and has a doorman, I would ask the doorman about these goings-on. My doorman knows everything. (A little disconcerting at times, but reliable.)

Skiergirl

DING DING DING AND VIDA WINS THE (IMAGINARY) PRIZE!!!! He/She wrote:
"Don't know what the situation is at this particular location, but it does not have to be some sort of racist thinking, as you may be implying. For one example, in Brazil people feel they have the perfect right to play music 24/7 at the volume of their choice, and no one (close neighbors)says anything, mostly because "getting along" is considered more important in that culture. Living next to this, if one is not used to the culturally-based idea that one must endure it without protest, when such a group moves into your building in the US, could be difficult for someone who understands the concept of noise pollution."

The foreigners I spoke of (who are separate from the people I believe to be using their apartments as hotel rooms) are all from Brazil. I'm sure they are nice people, but they cannot leave or return to the apartment next door to be without making a HUGE racket in the hallways, play loud music all night long, smoke all over the place. One unit full of Brazilians went into our back common patio area, lit 20 candles, put them all over the wood furniture with no bottoms on them, and proceeded to leave wax all over the place. The super and handyman had to clean all of the furniture and they were fined.

I am ABSOLUTELY NOT a racist person.

The original issue is not about the Brazilians. My apartment is a condo building. I was not prescreened for ownership before buying, but I was when I bought a co-op years ago. I will check some other sites mentioned to see if I can find anything about my suspicions with illegal subletting.

Yes, I have complained to the management company and our board members (who I'm friendly with) many times about the Brazilians calming down and inquired about the possible hotel room situation. Unfortunately, unless I have proof (as someone else mentioned) I can't prove it to be actually happening. BUT...

Kenav-my doorman is the keeper of all the important information, and we're tight. I know who to make friends with, as do you I'm sure!!! One night this week a big group of people came into the lobby who I'd never seen, so I asked him if they were possibly temporary guests and he said yes. He also told me which apartments he feels are doing this illegally. We have a condo party next week so I'm going to follow up with management in person.

Thanks again.

cw

skiergirl, next time you run into some "guests" ask them how they found the place because you have friends who would love to rent temporarily in the building.

nytraveler

There are 2 sets of issues.

What to do about the rentals is a function of the condo rules.

But if the neighbors are continually loud at all hours and the management does nothing you have the option of calling the police and complaining about a public nuisance. If they are making so much noise you can;t sleep after midnight that is unreasonable and the police will respond to a call about that and warn them they can be fined if the don't cease and desist. Typically, this is not the way to handle things in a condo or do-op - to me the first step would be a letter from the managing agent to all tenants providing very specific rules - as in their should be no loud noises or music from the apartment into other units or public areas after 11 pm during the week and midnight on Fri and Sat. With specific fines to be levied if the rules are not followed.

Some agents are wusses and don't want to get involved, If talking to the neighbors doesn;t work and the managing agent does nothing I would call the police. (We had people living in the building across the street last summer and they played their music incredibly loudly at all hours. After some requests for normal quiet (which were rebuffed with profanity) people in that building - and our building - started calling the police every time it got out of control. And they came - usually within a short time - to shut them down. Eventually they came one evening when there was a fight in the apartment, so they entered and found drugs. The tenants were summarily evicted - since it was a city building and felony conviction (or plea deal) is an automatic out.