klam

I like to have a cocktail when we go for dinner. However, I can't drink a lot so I sip at it throughout my meal, especially after I get some food in me. I know restaurants have wine pairings with courses, and they would like me to order wine with my meal. Is it really uncouth to have a cocktail at your table after the appetizer is served? Have "the rules" relaxed so that it is okay to have a cocktail with your meal instead of wine?

Howard

Is this question for real or a joke?
I've never heard of restaurant that dictated how quickly you must finish a drink or what type of alcohol you must consume during any part of a meal.

Lenore

I agree with Howard. If you are paying for your meal and drinks, why can't you eat and drink in any order you please? The only "rule" I have when dining out is to enjoy myself!

Owen O'Neill

"The rules"? yes... restaurantrs like it if you order wine with a meal. They'd also like everyone to get appetizers, desserts and cordials but the reality is that we all order what we choose. I happen to be a non-drinker and don't care what anyone else thinks about it - restaurant staff or otherwise. I often get a tonic water before the meal and frequently keep it throughout part of the meal to sip on. ON this note I should point out that it has become a practice (pr so it seems) of more upscale restaurants to automatically open a second bottle of sparkling water once the first one is getting low. I've had this happen twice recently and in both cases we each still had a full glass and were close to the end of the meal and ready for coffee. Be forewarned - you must specify that no additional bottles are to be opened unless requested. At one place it was $8 per bottle and at the opther it was $12 (yes... just for pellegrino type water). It's a very pricey add-on for somethign you don't want and if you're not drinking wine they're sometimes quick to look for automatic add-ons.

c

I agree~(that is because I am a very agreeable person but I hardly ever drink, and will have a glass of seltzer sometimes before we order, sometimes a glass of red wine will last the entire evening.I have never had the feeling that the restaurant would like for me to order differently.Of course I can be counted on to always order dessert and make my husband order one, regardless of his wanting dessert, so they might make it up that way,in our caseC

Howard

Owen, do I infer that you actually pay for that unwanted and unordered second bottle of water? I wouldn't, but would simply say that I didn't order it.
In general, whether you have one, two or no drinks is your decision! My wife drinks occasionally. When she doesn't sometimes she'll order bottled water; other times just a plain glass of water. It's that simple!
Further, whether you have desert or not makes absolutely no difference!

klam

Howard, this is a real question. I posted it cuz at times I will be asked if I want to order some wine even though my cocktail is still on the table, barely touched. It seemed like when I ordered wine, like c, I was no longer asked, but with cocktails I was. I didn't start "drinking" til later in life, and didn't know if the cocktail thing was "faux pas".

Catherine

Klam, I think your question is quite interesting! I believe it is a true etiquette question, not simply a matter of feeling "forced" to run up a tab with wine. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer either, although I suppose taking a cocktail to the table with you might mar a formal place setting a little. Perhaps you could write to Miss Manners, the ultimate authority! (If it does turn out to be rude to drink a cocktail with dinner, I have been guilty of it myself.)

Howard

Klam, after I wrote my initial response, I realized that you are a regular contributor. Forgive for being a "quasi-skeptic"!
But, Catherine, YOU can't be serious. An etiquette question? Marring a formal place setting? Rude to drink a cocktail with dinner? C'mon!

foodie

Wine pairing is always at an additional charge so do not feel obligated to order it. Drink what you wish. Many people do not drink wine with dinner so do not worry. I have been in the business for years and it is no way looked down upon if you choose to drink something else besides wine with your dinner. As far as the bottle water thing goes, Howard you were "taken". In no way should a server ever assume you want something and just bring it over and charge you for it. It is called "padding" the check. You were scammed.

Alexis

Actually, there is a reason for this that isn't necessarily about inflating your bar bill. Let me preface this by saying that I think it's your meal and you're entitled to eat or drink what you see fit. The reason I've heard most often is that most cocktails are made with hard alcohol which has the effect of "deadening the palate" and some foodies feel that this is diminishing the appreciation of the food. Some may liken it too smothering a filet mignon with ketchup. Personally, I do find liquor to be too strong flavored to enjoy while I eat so I prefer it after the meal but it's no crime to drink it during and you definitely shouldn't have to drink yourself into a puddle just to please the waiter. LOL

Catherine

Howard, it *is* an etiquette question! I actually looked it up in an old etiquette book I have from 1978 (the year I was born, BTW), but to no avail. While it was quite specific about a host's ordering cocktails for his guests as they arrived at a restaurant (and that a non-drinker might have pop instead), it obviously assumed that wine would be drunk with dinner.

I certainly don't think it would be offensive to have a cocktail with your food, but it might not be perfectly proper, you know? As far as formal place settings, that obviously doesn't apply in a restuarant because the place wouldn't be set, as no one knows what you will order and thus what utensils you will need. However, if I were having a dinner party at my house, I'd think someone a little rude if he shoved aside the glasses I had set to plunk down his gin and tonic.

For the record, I myself do enjoy wine with dinner while eating out. As far as cocktails, I'm partial to rusty nails but usually save them for when I want to fall down the stairs after a punk show. (I leave you to ponder the true punkness of any venue that does serve Drambuie.)

Anon

So you think it's a better idea for someone to drink wine that they do not like or want in lieu of plunking down their gin and tonic? I can't see the difference. If I go to a restaurant and order a drink and want another one with my dinner so what? They are probably happier than a pig in crap because of the exorbitant prices most places charge for drinks anymore. The more you drink, the more $$$ they are making.

Howard

Foodie, it wasn't me who was taken. I said pretty much the same thing as you.
Alexis, you're absolutely right with your deadening the palate comments. I just didn't want to get that technical, since I didn't think that was part of the original poster's considerations.
And, finally, Catherine, I don't mean to be argumentative, but we're talking about a restaurant, not someone's house.
(Still, I'm not sure if I agree with your comments about that situation either!)

Catherine

Anon, not partaking of the wine served is not that same as deciding what will be served instead. As for the manners of a pig in crap might be, you can enlighten us later.... I will say that resteraunteurs are not always the greatest purveyors of etiquette and that "I'm paying for it, aren't I?" is too often used as an excuse to be rude.

Catherine

Just a clarification--the first sentence of my last comment did refer to a dinner party. Howard is probably right, though, that we should get back to the restaurant issue.

This board should registration, if for no other reason than to allow posters to edit.

foodie

Howard, my mistake I meant Owen was "taken". Sorry for the confusion.

Owen O'Neill

Howard - I'm completely in agreement with you re/not paying for something I didn't order. The first time was at Tangerine in Philly. I commented on the issue to the waitress and she immediately tookk it off the check. The second occasion as at Danube - my friend was treating me to dinner and her preference was to pay for it. I mention it here simply because I rather than mention that we hadn't requested it. I was the guest and no position to disagree. Hadn't noticed this practice in the past and think most of us would rather avoid even having to ask for the correction. By all rights, the restaurant should ask first. I can't imagine that they'd routinely open a second bottle of wine without asking first and at $12 per bottle, sparkling water becomes more than just "water". I also agree that it makes no difference whether one is planning on dessert or not. Just seems that this may be a new way of bumping up check totals and I, for one, don't approve of it. I don't mind being nudged on dessert, appetizers or other options but agree that what one chooses to order should be it and nothing else.

Patrick

At Bice in New York a couple of years ago, we were just being seated when an overly ambitious waiter started pouring bottled water into our glasses. I saw it was sparkling -- which I don't drink at all -- and told him we didn't want that. When he asked if we'd prefer still water instead, I said we'd really prefer tap water. At that point he became very indignant and told me we should have told him before he opened the bottle that we didn't want it. How about that for backwards thinking? The waiter assumes you want bottled sparkiling water and it is the customer's responsibility to prevent him from opening it before you've even had a chance to settle into your chair. In addition he said in a very loud voice, "you're dining in a fine restaurant and you're drinking tap water?"

hey!

it isn't a new way to bump check totals, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW! They might as well take your CC# and go shopping without your knowledge.