lilaki

hi fodorites,

DH and i are heading to NYC from dec 18 - 23. it's a bit of a spur-of-the-moment trip for us.

a bit of background ...early-30's, from toronto, well-traveled (although, not as well as i would like!), fast-paced (i'm learning to slow down a bit). i've got plantar fasciitis and am slowly but surely being forced to take lots of breaks during the day (either on a bench somewhere or plunging my feet into a cold bath - hence i'd like to return to the hotel once a day to break things up). we're staying at the doubletree metropolitan (51st/lex). plan to buy a 7-day metrocard. i've been to ny twice before an DH has been once (all visits were well over 10 years ago). when traveling, we tend to get an early start (i.e. quick breakfast and out of the hotel by 8:30 am) and are in bed early (super happy when i'm in bed by 11 pm!). some of the items in the itinerary are weather dependent and can be moved (i.e. swap visit to the met and LES food tour). but here's our draft itinerary ... please comment/critique!

friday, december 18
- arrive @ JFK ...airtrain to jamaica, e train to 53/lex station
- dinner somewhere near hotel (possibly bateau ivre)
- see tree @ rockefeller

saturday, december 19
- met (opens at 9:30 am)
- free central park tour at 1 pm
- if we're done at met, then window shopping along 5th ave
- if we're NOT done at the met, then more met
- back to hotel for afternoon break
- guggenheim for "pay what you can/wish" at 5:45 pm
- dinner @ ottomanelli
- if we didn't wander down 5th ave in the afternoon, then we can do so after dinner

comments - i realize this is a bit of a round-about day, but we're not actually interested in the collections at the guggenheim ... more the architecture. plus, we want to take advantage of the 'pay what you can/wish' timing. i suppose i could squish the central park tour/met/guggenheim all into the afternoon ... but i'm concerned about a) running out of time at the met and b) fatigue.

sunday, december 20
- visit times square - 9 am-ish
- chelsea food tour (11:30 am) with foods of new york (already booked)
- shopping in chelsea (tour ends at 2:30 - 3 pm)
- stop off at B&H photo (DH's choice ... he will likely buy some gear here)
- back to hotel for afternoon break + dropping off of wares (if any)
- knicks game @ MSG (7:30 pm)

comments - again, i realize we're doing some backtracking here ... but i've checked out the distances/routes and a 15 min subway ride (i.e. from hotel back to penn station to MSG) seems reasonable. plus, if DH does buy stuff @ B&H photo, i don't want to be lugging it to MSG.

monday, december 21
- UN tour @ 9:45 am
- visit grand central station
- union square market + flatiron district
- possible food stop @ momofuku's milk bar
- visit macy's (not for shopping but to check out the wooden escalators ... i remember this vividly as a kid and would like to go back)
- back to hotel for afternoon break
- train to brooklyn and then walk across brooklyn bridge back to manhattan
- dinner @ lupa (6 pm reservations)

tuesday, december 22
- LES food tour (outlined on chowhound: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/493333) - planning to start around 10 am ... finish by early afternoon
- canal street/soho/greenwich village
- back to hotel to rest/pack
- quick dinner in theatre district (john's?)
- west side story @ palace theatre, 7 pm

wednesday, december 23
- catch mid-morning flight back to toronto

that's it. please chime in with your comments.

thanks so much!

ellenem

Looks like a thoughtfully designed plan. My only thoughts:

I don't see much of a point of visiting Times Square at 9AM. You will miss the hordes of people and the effect of the lights in the dark, the two things for which the area is most known. You could shift a visit there to just before your Knicks game--it will be dark by 4:30 pm. On the other hand, you will be going to the theater on Tuesday evening, so not sure why you need to go to Times Square at all on Sunday.

I think your Monday plan is very ambitious. All your activities are the type that can take no time or loads of time, depending on your interest in the area and wandering. Prioritize that day so you will be sure to fit in the three of the five areas that you do not want to miss. Then you'll feel easier about it when you must edit.

yk

Hi lilaki,

Just FYI, there's a major Kandinsky retrospective show at the Guggenheim right now (thru mid-Jan). It's received good reviews and an acquaintance of mine loved it. So if you like Kandinksy, you may find yourself wanting to spend more time there than just the architecture.

doug_stallings

I have a few observations.

1. If you really want to visit Macy's, do it either first thing in the morning on Sunday or after (or before) your stop at B&H Photo, or right before or after the Knick's Game (all three of these activities are within a few blocks of Macy's or as you pass through the area immediately around Macy's). It seems silly to me to visit Union Square on Monday, then go all the way across town to Macy's, then all the way across town again to your hotel, then to Brooklyn. Adds literally an extra hour of traveling, which seems crazy with limited time.

2. I'm not sure you'll be riding the subway enough to justify a one-week pass. You're only here 3 full days and 2 half days. You have to ride the subway more than 12 times (not counting transfers) to make this worth the price. Not sure you're going to do that in the time you're here. I'd add up the figures.

3. Consider one dinner at Le Relais de Venise l'Entrecote. It's very close to your hotel and a huge bargain. It was reviewed positively in the NY Times recently. I'm eating there on the 11th, so I'm happy to give a first-hand report, but if you like steak, it is an unbeatable price.

4. You probably need to do a drop-off if your husband buys something at B&H even if it's inconvenient. Not sure you'd be able to carry it into the Knick's game anyway.

5. On Monday, instead of Momofuku Milk Bar, consider having lunch at Momofuku Ssam Bar, which is just a few more minutes' walk. The food is more substantial there if you want something non-sweet. You could stop back by Milk Bar for dessert or just go to Veneiro's, which is a couple of blocks down from Ssam Bar.

jroth

Just a word of agreement re visiting Times Square. You have to do this after dark - it is the spectacular lighting displays that make this a unique (in the world) visit

lilaki

hi ellenem - tks for the note about times square (to be honest, neither of us is keen on doing anything in times square ... just a quick walk-through would suffice). maybe we'll go before/after the knicks game.

hi yk - tks for letting me know about the kadinsky reviews. i'll make sure to get to the guggenheim at 5:45 sharp then.

hi doug - i'll move macy's to sunday morning on the way down to chelsea. we'll buy the 7-day pass since it's easier to justify hopping on the subway for just a couple of stops. without a return trip to the airport, i've already figued we'll use the train 13 times. so i think we'll be okay. i do have le relais on my list of potential restaurants. i'd love to hear your review after the 11th! and yes, i agree with the drop-off if we buy something at B&H ... i was wondering whether they'd even let us into MSG with that kind of stuff. and i'll put momofuku ssam bar on the list for monday.

thanks!!!

nyer

Re Guggenheim on Saturday evening:
Just be aware that the wait to get in could be pretty long.
The Guggenheim usually charges $18, so a free evening is very appealing AND the Kandinsky exhibit is very popular AND it's a busy time of the year, packed with European tourists.
If you get there at 5:45, the line could be around the block. And they do not let everyone is all at once. If you go earlier, you'll be waiting in line until 5:45 at least. If you really just want a quick look,you might consider waiting until later in the evening , closer to 7 pm.
By then, the people who got there very early will be in already (and probably have left) and the ones who got there right at "free" time will also have been admitted.
No guarantees this strategy will work, but it has for me in the past

ellenem

lilaki,

If neither of you is "keen" on Times Square, then don't make a special trip to see it. The Palace Theater, where you will be on Tuesday night, is in the middle of Times Square.

lilaki

hi jroth - tks for the tip re: visiting times square at night ...

nyer - hmmm. you're right, i hadn't considered the lines. if the weather isn't too horrible, then i think we might go a bit earlier than 5:45 pm and line up. if we're tired/museum-ed out or if it's bad weather, then we may go closer to 7 pm.

tks!

Aduchamp1

Ellenem and Doug make a number of good points.

If you want the full Times Square effext, go at night. Going at 9 AM is like going to a club when they are putting the chairs up.

B & H is a zoo on Suundayd let alone the Sunday before Christmas, see if you can change it to a week day. (Closed Friday afternnon very early this time of year and Saturday.)

possible food stop @ momofuku's milk bar.
They have a limited selection of bread but a good selection of cookies and expensive cakes. This is strictly for desert or snack.

I think I am in the minority but the UN tour is quit the bore.

lilaki

hi aduchamp,

tks for the heads up for B&H ... i think we'll just have to brace ourselves! it doesn't really fit into the monday/tuesday of our itinerary.

hmm - the UN tour is boring? really? please elaborate. i went when i was a kid and remember thinking it was pretty cool back then (yep, i was a geeky kid and proud of it!).

lilaki

would visiting grand central be a BUST if we do it on sunday morning before our chelsea food tour??

ellenem

Union Square Market and Flatiron district makes more sense to combine with Chelsea Market, since they are near one another, though I'm not sure how early the market stalls open.

Aduchamp1

The humanitarian record of the UN is good while the political achievements arenon-existant.So I that the nighlights were a nit manufactured. But as I noted I think I am in the minority.

Also eat somewhere else before heading to the Knicks game. The pciking are slim near MSG. Also the prices at the concessions stands are outrageously high. I went to Ranger games for many years and used to smuggle in food. It became harder after 9/11. You would think a salami sandwich is an WMD.

sf7307

Grand Central is NEVER a bust!

yk

I think Grand Central on Sunday morning is a good idea. It'll be less crowded, so you can get to enjoy it without being bumped into by commuters who are rushing to get home (or clueless tourists who aren't looking where they're going).

lilaki

perfect - thanks all for your comments. i'll move GC to sunday morning ... this frees up some time on a potentially busy monday. and i'll pair times square with either the knicks game or the show on tuesday night.

tks so much!

mp

Another heads up - the selection at the Union Sq. Greenmarket on a Monday in the winter will be .. . limited, to say the least. At the southern end of the park is the Holiday Crafts market - which gets quite crowded after 1PM or so.

Also, Momofuku Ssam is just around the corner from Milk Bar - you can actually walk thru Ssam into the Milk Bar. It is as Adu says, best for a sweet (very very very sweet) snack. Ssam Bar is great for lunch.

The Garden can be really rigorous about packages - no briefcases, backpacks or packages are allowed during most events. It's a pain.

For someone who seems interested in food, I'm not sure why you are eating at Otamanelli's - it is a very good butcher but the cafe is like a glorified coffee shop - what are you looking for?

lilaki

hi mp,

thanks for the comments ... DH has a lowepro backpack for his DSLR. it's not huge but it's still a backpack. do you think MSG will let that through? if not, we'll just bring our point and shoot that night.

i was referring to ottomanelli's ny grill ... not the ottomanelli's butcher shop ... which i understand to be separate. i had posted on chowhound for a reco near the guggenheim since we'll likely be starving once we're done there on saturday night. one of the posters (who seems very knowledgeable about the UES) came back with ottomanelli's grill which fits our "no-reservations, casual, laid-back, cheap but still good" food request for that night.

Aduchamp1

I would like to brag about the posters on Fodor's. The NY'ers (and a number of visitors) who post here know their stuff. And although there may be diagreements, it is usually that of opinion rather than fact.

At least half the posters on chowhound, menupages, and especially yelp do not know from whence they speak. I do not know the resyaurants on the Upper East Side, so I cannot speak directly to ottomanelli's, but I would want a second opinion from some where.