Oregon and Washington with young kids in an RV
Aug 8th, 2019, 07:23 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oregon and Washington with young kids in an RV
We are planning a trip with our 4 kids for July 2020. We would like to travel for around 2 weeks (can be a bit longer), in Oregon and Washington (Portland and Seattle we are visiting a part). Our kids will be 10, 9, 7 and 2 by then. We are planning on renting an RV for a few reasons: 1. we can’t all fit in one hotel bedroom which means that we will always be separated at night. 2. we want our kids to experience being as much as possible in nature but my husband hates sleeping on a tent. So we need places where we can park an RV.
With our 2 year old we can’t make very long drives and we would rather be in a place several days on a row than move constantly.
Our kids love swimming (cold temperatures don’t scared them and we are used to it). They love adventure and meeting other kids. My husband and I would like to see those breathtaking sceneries that we watch on pictures and movies. And as long as the kids enjoy then we have a holiday.
Could you please adviced on an itinerary? We would get the RV in or around Portland and we will return it there. Thank you!
With our 2 year old we can’t make very long drives and we would rather be in a place several days on a row than move constantly.
Our kids love swimming (cold temperatures don’t scared them and we are used to it). They love adventure and meeting other kids. My husband and I would like to see those breathtaking sceneries that we watch on pictures and movies. And as long as the kids enjoy then we have a holiday.
Could you please adviced on an itinerary? We would get the RV in or around Portland and we will return it there. Thank you!
Last edited by sundolph; Aug 8th, 2019 at 07:32 PM.
Aug 8th, 2019, 07:38 PM
#2
Just quick -- I'm dashing out and others will have more details for you. A motorhome could be fine but may not be the best option for you.
But >>1. we can’t all fit in one hotel bedroom which means that we will always be separated at night.>So we need places where we can park an RV. With our 2 year old we can’t make very long drives and we would rather be in a place several days on a row than move constantly.
But >>1. we can’t all fit in one hotel bedroom which means that we will always be separated at night.>So we need places where we can park an RV. With our 2 year old we can’t make very long drives and we would rather be in a place several days on a row than move constantly.
Aug 8th, 2019, 09:23 PM
#3
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really, your ideal vacation in my mind is one week in Sunriver and one on the Oregon Coast. Airbnb's are still allowed in Portland, stay in one the night before you fly home... Or make it two nights and see Portland or Mt St Helens.
Sunriver is vacation community and lots of people rent houses there. It's the thing. Rent bikes. There are paths everywhere for your kids to ride. Float the Deschutes. Amazing hikes-- petrified Forest, Smith Rock and many more. The lava tubes are fun.. (like a cave).
There's even an excellent observatory to go watch the stars. Very good telescopes, and volunteers who lead a talk and then show you the planets.
From Sunriver, make a day trip to Crater Lake. Or up to Hood River. The older kids could raft.
On your way from Bend to the beach, make some stops over Mt Hood to see the sights--Timberline Lodge, ride the lift. The McMinnville plane museum also includes a water park where the slide comes out of the nose of a plane. (I think it's a retired 747. )
The beach-- lots of houses to rent there. Cannon Beach is popular but also consider other towns in the Oregon Coast.
Astoria is a great day trip with kids--Fort Clatsop, the trolley through town, the amazing bridge over the Columbia,Cape Disappointment.
Another great day trip is Tillamook for the dairy (free samples!) and the historic planes. Another great day is in Newport with the aquarium, marine science center and lighthouse.
Finally if you really want a semi-camping experience, consider a cabin for part of your trip. At the beach look at KOA in Astoria/Warrenton, Thousand Trails Seaside or Thousand Trails Pacific City.
.
Sunriver is vacation community and lots of people rent houses there. It's the thing. Rent bikes. There are paths everywhere for your kids to ride. Float the Deschutes. Amazing hikes-- petrified Forest, Smith Rock and many more. The lava tubes are fun.. (like a cave).
There's even an excellent observatory to go watch the stars. Very good telescopes, and volunteers who lead a talk and then show you the planets.
From Sunriver, make a day trip to Crater Lake. Or up to Hood River. The older kids could raft.
On your way from Bend to the beach, make some stops over Mt Hood to see the sights--Timberline Lodge, ride the lift. The McMinnville plane museum also includes a water park where the slide comes out of the nose of a plane. (I think it's a retired 747. )
The beach-- lots of houses to rent there. Cannon Beach is popular but also consider other towns in the Oregon Coast.
Astoria is a great day trip with kids--Fort Clatsop, the trolley through town, the amazing bridge over the Columbia,Cape Disappointment.
Another great day trip is Tillamook for the dairy (free samples!) and the historic planes. Another great day is in Newport with the aquarium, marine science center and lighthouse.
Finally if you really want a semi-camping experience, consider a cabin for part of your trip. At the beach look at KOA in Astoria/Warrenton, Thousand Trails Seaside or Thousand Trails Pacific City.
.
Last edited by 5alive; Aug 8th, 2019 at 10:01 PM.
Aug 9th, 2019, 05:51 AM
#5
I think four kids of those ages in an RV is likely to create some major problems. Look carefully at the layout of various large RVs that could accommodate your group. How many of the kids would have windows as you ride? How would you manage the car seat for the 2-year old? Are you aware that children under 8 also require a "booster" seat in Oregon? How will that work with your chosen RV? And of course the cost - not just the RV rental, but the hookup fees, the equipment for the rig, etc. And maneuverability is a big issue; some of the region's best roads are pretty twisty and narrow, and using an RV means you have to drive it everywhere.
You have almost a year, so why don't you do a side-by-side cost/benefit analysis of an RV vs. a conventional vehicle (like a minivan) plus Airbnb/VRBO or other types of accommodations? Given your preferences, I think you could pick several "bases" from which you could do day trips to all sorts of terrific destinations; places like Hood River would offer a huge variety of activities and sights within an hour's drive or so; likewise there are places on the coast, or around the Puget Sound area, where a base of operations for a few days would minimize the logistical worries and maximize the fun. The planning process is free; I'd recommend you spend some time working on it.
You have almost a year, so why don't you do a side-by-side cost/benefit analysis of an RV vs. a conventional vehicle (like a minivan) plus Airbnb/VRBO or other types of accommodations? Given your preferences, I think you could pick several "bases" from which you could do day trips to all sorts of terrific destinations; places like Hood River would offer a huge variety of activities and sights within an hour's drive or so; likewise there are places on the coast, or around the Puget Sound area, where a base of operations for a few days would minimize the logistical worries and maximize the fun. The planning process is free; I'd recommend you spend some time working on it.
Aug 9th, 2019, 08:27 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also consider price. Price out an AirBnB or even suite hotel - suite hotels usually come with breakfast and often wine/beer in evening which you might really need after traveling with 4 kids. And when you price out RV rental, make sure you include gas, mileage charges, additional charges for linens, kitchen utensils. And parking charges with hookups at night. Years ago we considered renting an RV and found hotel was cheaper. And even a basic hotel room is going to give you more space than an RV.
But it is also a lifestyle choice. Some people love RVs. We used to camp in tents. Both are wonderful, except when it rains and you are all crammed into a small space looking for something to do. But with an RV you have to pack it up and take it with you to take everyone for pizza and a movie when it has monsoon for 2 days.
Not discouraging you from traveling with kids; we did from time they were born. But at their ages a cabin on a lake might be more fun for everyone.
But it is also a lifestyle choice. Some people love RVs. We used to camp in tents. Both are wonderful, except when it rains and you are all crammed into a small space looking for something to do. But with an RV you have to pack it up and take it with you to take everyone for pizza and a movie when it has monsoon for 2 days.
Not discouraging you from traveling with kids; we did from time they were born. But at their ages a cabin on a lake might be more fun for everyone.
Aug 9th, 2019, 09:37 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a lot of very experienced Fodorites commenting on your post whose inputs I highly value. But I'm going to disagree a bit with them. We think RV traveling offers some benefits that apartment rentals (we specifically avoid AirBnB but use others) offer DEPENDING on your family. OP specifically mentions that they would like to be as close to nature as possible and that IMO is exactly what an RV is good for. If your kids are good with the somewhat limited space in an RV as opposed to a large rental apartment, you can travel as much or as little per day as you would like. A typical RV travel day for us is something like:
Wake from comfortable and warm sleeping arrangement (as compared to tent campling). - see caveat below
If traveling that day, leave RV park, drive for relatively short distance, finding a beautiful lake or stream where no one else is nearby. Pull over, park with the window viewing the best scenery. Rustle up breakfast leisurely, possibly take a short hike (before or after breakfast).
Continue traveling if needed to that days destination. Arrive in time for an afternoon hike or early exploration of your destination. If camping in a full service RV park, in the evening, pull out the laptop, fire up a movie for the kids, prepare to nestle in for the night.
As another example, we were RV camping in WA state and spent the day at Mt. St. Helens. In the late afternoon, we were at the visitors center. At closing, a big storm was rolling up the mountain. We just sat in the RV in the parking lot after everyone had left, cooked dinner and enjoyed the storm lashing outside.
Caveat - If you are flying in somewhere to rent an RV you need to rent or bring sleeping and cooking accessories as well as clothes, etc. So bringing pillows, sheets, pots and pans, etc. can be a major issue. As far as cost - an RV is generally not inexpensive, especially a larger one for a family of 6. However, since you may be generally fixing meals in the RV (this can be a plus or minus), you may save a lot on restaurant bills.
You will need to carefully plan your route including / especially your overnight stays in the RV. With the advanced planning and logistics of what you need to bring or rent, it can be a big issue. However, if you think things through and plan accordingly, I think that nothing really beats an RV trip in the mountain West.
Just my 2c.
Wake from comfortable and warm sleeping arrangement (as compared to tent campling). - see caveat below
If traveling that day, leave RV park, drive for relatively short distance, finding a beautiful lake or stream where no one else is nearby. Pull over, park with the window viewing the best scenery. Rustle up breakfast leisurely, possibly take a short hike (before or after breakfast).
Continue traveling if needed to that days destination. Arrive in time for an afternoon hike or early exploration of your destination. If camping in a full service RV park, in the evening, pull out the laptop, fire up a movie for the kids, prepare to nestle in for the night.
As another example, we were RV camping in WA state and spent the day at Mt. St. Helens. In the late afternoon, we were at the visitors center. At closing, a big storm was rolling up the mountain. We just sat in the RV in the parking lot after everyone had left, cooked dinner and enjoyed the storm lashing outside.
Caveat - If you are flying in somewhere to rent an RV you need to rent or bring sleeping and cooking accessories as well as clothes, etc. So bringing pillows, sheets, pots and pans, etc. can be a major issue. As far as cost - an RV is generally not inexpensive, especially a larger one for a family of 6. However, since you may be generally fixing meals in the RV (this can be a plus or minus), you may save a lot on restaurant bills.
You will need to carefully plan your route including / especially your overnight stays in the RV. With the advanced planning and logistics of what you need to bring or rent, it can be a big issue. However, if you think things through and plan accordingly, I think that nothing really beats an RV trip in the mountain West.
Just my 2c.
Last edited by jlub; Aug 9th, 2019 at 09:41 AM.
Aug 9th, 2019, 10:24 AM
#8
Before renting that RV I'd do a bit more research about camping (not in a tent) possibilities. For example here are yurts and cabins in Oregon:
https://oregonstateparks.org/index.c...sp_cabinsyurts
Then you could just rent a normal van to drive everyone around. That's going to be a lot smoother than being saddled with an RV.
https://oregonstateparks.org/index.c...sp_cabinsyurts
Then you could just rent a normal van to drive everyone around. That's going to be a lot smoother than being saddled with an RV.
Aug 9th, 2019, 02:42 PM
#9
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a lot of very experienced Fodorites commenting on your post whose inputs I highly value. But I'm going to disagree a bit with them. We think RV traveling offers some benefits that apartment rentals (we specifically avoid AirBnB but use others) offer DEPENDING on your family. OP specifically mentions that they would like to be as close to nature as possible and that IMO is exactly what an RV is good for. If your kids are good with the somewhat limited space in an RV as opposed to a large rental apartment, you can travel as much or as little per day as you would like. A typical RV travel day for us is something like:
Wake from comfortable and warm sleeping arrangement (as compared to tent campling). - see caveat below
If traveling that day, leave RV park, drive for relatively short distance, finding a beautiful lake or stream where no one else is nearby. Pull over, park with the window viewing the best scenery. Rustle up breakfast leisurely, possibly take a short hike (before or after breakfast).
Continue traveling if needed to that days destination. Arrive in time for an afternoon hike or early exploration of your destination. If camping in a full service RV park, in the evening, pull out the laptop, fire up a movie for the kids, prepare to nestle in for the night.
As another example, we were RV camping in WA state and spent the day at Mt. St. Helens. In the late afternoon, we were at the visitors center. At closing, a big storm was rolling up the mountain. We just sat in the RV in the parking lot after everyone had left, cooked dinner and enjoyed the storm lashing outside.
Caveat - If you are flying in somewhere to rent an RV you need to rent or bring sleeping and cooking accessories as well as clothes, etc. So bringing pillows, sheets, pots and pans, etc. can be a major issue. As far as cost - an RV is generally not inexpensive, especially a larger one for a family of 6. However, since you may be generally fixing meals in the RV (this can be a plus or minus), you may save a lot on restaurant bills.
You will need to carefully plan your route including / especially your overnight stays in the RV. With the advanced planning and logistics of what you need to bring or rent, it can be a big issue. However, if you think things through and plan accordingly, I think that nothing really beats an RV trip in the mountain West.
Just my 2c.
Wake from comfortable and warm sleeping arrangement (as compared to tent campling). - see caveat below
If traveling that day, leave RV park, drive for relatively short distance, finding a beautiful lake or stream where no one else is nearby. Pull over, park with the window viewing the best scenery. Rustle up breakfast leisurely, possibly take a short hike (before or after breakfast).
Continue traveling if needed to that days destination. Arrive in time for an afternoon hike or early exploration of your destination. If camping in a full service RV park, in the evening, pull out the laptop, fire up a movie for the kids, prepare to nestle in for the night.
As another example, we were RV camping in WA state and spent the day at Mt. St. Helens. In the late afternoon, we were at the visitors center. At closing, a big storm was rolling up the mountain. We just sat in the RV in the parking lot after everyone had left, cooked dinner and enjoyed the storm lashing outside.
Caveat - If you are flying in somewhere to rent an RV you need to rent or bring sleeping and cooking accessories as well as clothes, etc. So bringing pillows, sheets, pots and pans, etc. can be a major issue. As far as cost - an RV is generally not inexpensive, especially a larger one for a family of 6. However, since you may be generally fixing meals in the RV (this can be a plus or minus), you may save a lot on restaurant bills.
You will need to carefully plan your route including / especially your overnight stays in the RV. With the advanced planning and logistics of what you need to bring or rent, it can be a big issue. However, if you think things through and plan accordingly, I think that nothing really beats an RV trip in the mountain West.
Just my 2c.
Worth noting that the OP wants to stay in a place for "several days" and not move. And the vacation is only 14 days total. Now my English teacher would tell you that the root of "several" is "seven," so figure that means 6-8 days per site, or moving once.A few means 3-4. But the OP may not have had my English teacher (ha!), still, I suspect he/she only wants to move maybe 3x.
Costs: I have helped on various charity auctions and was stunned at the values of a donation of use of an RV. I checked it out at the time so we weren't deluding our patrons. Go look around on this site--when you add the filters for 6 people, plus filters for a kitchen, seat belts, and toilet (not even a shower), the RV alone is $200-250/night minimum, with $350/night not out of the question. And then you have site rental costs at the parks, bedding, dishes etc., and more fuel than a van/SUV would be.
https://rvshare.com/rv/rv-rental-prices
I am a fan of cabins which give you all of the advantages of the campground. Often in the private parks I've mentioned, there's a TV/DVR for that movie you mentioned. I shared some of the most workable options for cabins (and yurts).
I probably should add the Thousand Trails Sunriver Park. Really a nice park with both yurts and cabins, two pools, tennis and more. Although, I still think a house in Sunriver would be more fun.
Finally, there are now parks around the state that actually have RVs and Airstreams in place that you can go rent. I believe they are fully stocked too. I don't know a lot about it, but would be worth looking into.
Suze, the Oregon state campgrounds do have great cabins and yurts. The weekends are very tough to get, and people start booking when they come open 9 months out. Much easier to get weekdays. Sometimes go back to the website at 7 months out and see if people cancelled out on some weekday stays.
Another issue is driving these large vehicles on mountain roads. Some folks I've known took to it like ducks to water. Others really struggle and backing up the unit was a 30 minute operation. RVs are easier as there's not a bend in them. But they are still big and unwieldy. The main highways roads to the coast will be okay. So if they are relaxing and taking it easy, probably not too big an issue. Taking the RV to some trailheads will be a nightmare to park and turn around. Driving around Crater Lake on a day trip is curvy and narrow roads, at 20-30 mph for cars. And throughout it all, don't forget all the bikes on the road.
Last edited by 5alive; Aug 9th, 2019 at 02:44 PM.
Aug 9th, 2019, 03:38 PM
#10
5alive, you are MUCH more experienced in all this than I am. I was just trying to show there are other options than renting that big RV... which I just don't think really suits this request the best at all. Nor do I think will be economical.
Aug 9th, 2019, 07:10 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have done a trip similar to this for a month with our four kids when they were little. We owned a 22 ft motor home that we took from California, through Arizona to South Dakota and back home through Yellowstone and the Tetons. Our motor home was small enough that we could park anywhere. We slept in the cab over bed, the two girls slept on the folded down bed area and the two boys slept on the fold out couch in the back. So, not necessary to have a really large motor home to accommodate 6. Just check out the bed configurations. Setup each night took about 15 minutes....just park, level, set the table down and throw the sleeping bags on the beds.
The pros of taking the motor home were many: a bathroom everywhere you went, as well as a refrigerator. No need to drag an ice chest everywhere or eat out for every meal. There is always a bed with you if one of the kids needs a nap or isn't feeling well. The kids would either sit at the table and color, or play and watch videos in the upper bunk while we were driving. Again, not having to look for bathrooms along the way was a big plus. Since we were outside all day, the motor home was mainly for sleeping and preparing meals. I loved the trip...we found fantastic campgrounds in the midst of nature wherever we went. It was a very memorable trip, in a good way.
The pros of taking the motor home were many: a bathroom everywhere you went, as well as a refrigerator. No need to drag an ice chest everywhere or eat out for every meal. There is always a bed with you if one of the kids needs a nap or isn't feeling well. The kids would either sit at the table and color, or play and watch videos in the upper bunk while we were driving. Again, not having to look for bathrooms along the way was a big plus. Since we were outside all day, the motor home was mainly for sleeping and preparing meals. I loved the trip...we found fantastic campgrounds in the midst of nature wherever we went. It was a very memorable trip, in a good way.
Aug 9th, 2019, 08:36 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5alive, I think that you're exactly correct. Driving an RV is neither for every driver OR for every road. I can personally highly recommend NOT to drive across the Columbia river on the Hood River Canal bridge in an RV unless it's been upgraded a LOT since I scared myself to death on it.
Your costs are quite accurate so RV camping is definitely not a cheap / inexpensive way to go. But given all that, just as michele_d says, you can (and we have) some memorable vacations in a rented RV.
Your costs are quite accurate so RV camping is definitely not a cheap / inexpensive way to go. But given all that, just as michele_d says, you can (and we have) some memorable vacations in a rented RV.
Aug 9th, 2019, 08:52 PM
#14
BIG difference between michele_d and sundoplh though. 1) they OWNED the motorhome so didn't have the added high expense for renting one plus renting the linens, kitchen utensils, child seats, etc. If one owns a motorhome - that's a whole different situation.
Plus michele_d is from Calif so I'd guess they are used to driving the mountain/coastal roads (of course the OP may be from mountain country too?? )
Plus michele_d is from Calif so I'd guess they are used to driving the mountain/coastal roads (of course the OP may be from mountain country too?? )
Aug 9th, 2019, 10:37 PM
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all I would like to say that I’m new here and somehow I can only write two times in 24 hours?! This is why I didn’t answer before.
Thank you so much everyone for your input, suggestions, and itineraries. We really appreciate that you took the time to answer to our thread and explained what you think are pros and cons and shared your experiences. We have never travel on an RV so it’s really good to read your comments. We will do some more research and consider other options such as cabins and those places were you can get a glass of wine at the end of the day. We just have to put all in a balance and decide what’s best for us. An RV sounds very attractive but indeed the price really escalates a lot considering all the extras (and just for 2 weeks).
Thank you also for mentioning places to go. I already had a look at some and they look ideal to be with the kids. And I loked the English lesson for several =7 😂. Yes English isn’t our first language.
Thanks again!
Thank you so much everyone for your input, suggestions, and itineraries. We really appreciate that you took the time to answer to our thread and explained what you think are pros and cons and shared your experiences. We have never travel on an RV so it’s really good to read your comments. We will do some more research and consider other options such as cabins and those places were you can get a glass of wine at the end of the day. We just have to put all in a balance and decide what’s best for us. An RV sounds very attractive but indeed the price really escalates a lot considering all the extras (and just for 2 weeks).
Thank you also for mentioning places to go. I already had a look at some and they look ideal to be with the kids. And I loked the English lesson for several =7 😂. Yes English isn’t our first language.
Thanks again!
Aug 10th, 2019, 08:11 AM
#16
Welcome to Fodors sundolph. Yes, new members are on sort of 'probation' until they have posted a few times. That can be frustrating but it has really helped clean up this forum and eliminated a LOT of spam and sleaze. Soon you'll be able to post as much as you want 
>>We have never travel on an RV
>>We have never travel on an RV
Aug 10th, 2019, 09:08 AM
#17
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have been traveling in an RV for nearly 4 months, most of it without a car. For 10 days, our adult daughter joined us. I simply cannot imagine 6 people in one RV! The learning curve isn’t that big a deal, but being prepared to drive everywhere with everyone would be. Just going grocery shopping would be a production!
Aug 10th, 2019, 06:15 PM
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[left][QUOTE=janisj;16968287]Welcome to Fodors sundolph. Yes, new members are on sort of 'probation' until they have posted a few times. That can be frustrating but it has really helped clean up this forum and eliminated a LOT of spam and sleaze. Soon you'll be able to post as much as you want
>>We have never travel on an RV
>>We have never travel on an RV
Aug 11th, 2019, 06:52 AM
#19
sundolph~ This is a great thread, and hopefully will help you consider options maybe you hadn't thought about, different from doing this in an RV. And yes, please do keep posting a couple times a day, as allowed, and soon your probationary restriction period (ha-ha) will be over and you can post as much as you like!
Aug 11th, 2019, 07:22 AM
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you! And I will keep writing. It's a pity that I can only answer once every 24 hours for now.
This thread has been extremely helpful to us. We have taken note of the places recommended and the itineraries. We have decided not to rent an RV this time (however in the future we hope to do a trip in one). But one of the things that we hope to do (and one of the main reasons for what we were hoping to travel with an RV), is to stay in cabins, cottages or any accommodations where our kids can play with other kids and at night seat around a fire, make a barbecue, etc. I wonder if we can find something like this in Sunriver (that has been recommended a few times). So this will be now what we will look for. Have a lovely Sunday everyone.
This thread has been extremely helpful to us. We have taken note of the places recommended and the itineraries. We have decided not to rent an RV this time (however in the future we hope to do a trip in one). But one of the things that we hope to do (and one of the main reasons for what we were hoping to travel with an RV), is to stay in cabins, cottages or any accommodations where our kids can play with other kids and at night seat around a fire, make a barbecue, etc. I wonder if we can find something like this in Sunriver (that has been recommended a few times). So this will be now what we will look for. Have a lovely Sunday everyone.
