Open ocean discovered in the Artic Circle...
Aug 23rd, 2000, 07:42 AM
#21
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Dick-The open water at the north pole is not "alleged" it has been documented by a tour expedition, and it shocked everyone!
And Kathy-I agree with the poster about you flaunting your advanced degree. I worked for a manager with a PHD and he was accused of sexual harrassment of over 5 women. Most PHD's I have worked with (and it is plenty) have zero common sense and are completely full of themselves. Such as yourself. And even if you meant your comment as a joke, it was totally inappropriate! This is not a laughing matter, Kathy!
NBC news did a story on this a couple of nights ago, and the experts are indeed worried about the finding. Also, Greenland is melting at an alarming rate and photos from NASA showed widespread melting of the polar caps. Don't try to tell me that the pollution, smog etc. that spews into our atmosphere is not causing these changes. The experts all agree that it is having a profound effect on our weather. Also, they just released statistics/study in Ottawa, Canada that said more children than ever are dying of cancer, contracting asthma and having tons of health problems related to low level pollution. Not only are children effected but fertility as well. This should be our wake up call! It scares me and tears my heart out what we are doing to our children. What kind of world will they and future generations inherit since we have so carelessly trashed the planet?
And Kathy-I agree with the poster about you flaunting your advanced degree. I worked for a manager with a PHD and he was accused of sexual harrassment of over 5 women. Most PHD's I have worked with (and it is plenty) have zero common sense and are completely full of themselves. Such as yourself. And even if you meant your comment as a joke, it was totally inappropriate! This is not a laughing matter, Kathy!
NBC news did a story on this a couple of nights ago, and the experts are indeed worried about the finding. Also, Greenland is melting at an alarming rate and photos from NASA showed widespread melting of the polar caps. Don't try to tell me that the pollution, smog etc. that spews into our atmosphere is not causing these changes. The experts all agree that it is having a profound effect on our weather. Also, they just released statistics/study in Ottawa, Canada that said more children than ever are dying of cancer, contracting asthma and having tons of health problems related to low level pollution. Not only are children effected but fertility as well. This should be our wake up call! It scares me and tears my heart out what we are doing to our children. What kind of world will they and future generations inherit since we have so carelessly trashed the planet?
Aug 23rd, 2000, 09:59 AM
#22
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Mom - I was using “alleged” more in the sense of the significance (if any) of the hole in the Arctic ice, not whether it actually exists - I’ll stipulate that one does not need to be a trained scientist to recognize a hole in the ice. However, although I generally discourage relying on non-technical sources for scientific information, I urge you to read the entire article that “???” provided only the scare-mongering headlines from. You will learn there that the scientist the article is actually about “. . . downplayed the reports of the thawed hole, saying that summer temperature increases often create holes in the polar icecaps, though rarely at the North Pole.” I’m sorry that doesn’t fit into your doom and gloom view of the world, but facts, as they say, can be awkward things. As I said in my original post, there is still considerable disagreement in the scientific community regarding the causes (and, perhaps less so, the reality) of global warming.
I’ll let Kathy defend herself, if she cares to, but I take exception to your generalizations about PhDs. I never earned a PhD, though I’ve supervised, worked with, and worked for many of them in a long career as an environmental scientist. I count many among my closest friends. Fact is, they’re people like the rest of us - not better or worse, probably somewhat brighter than average, but otherwise pretty normal. What’s important is, whether we like it or not, they unquestionably know more about their area of specialization than the rest of us. Belittling them doesn’t change that and spouting ancecdotal evidence that flies in the face of current scientific thought doesn’t make a lay person an expert or advance a discussion that should be conducted with facts and data rather than opinions.
I’m not an expert in climatology, but your post also touched on a few areas that I am expert in, so let me address those briefly. I regularly read a variety of technical journals, but have not seen the Canadian study you cite (if you have the reference I’d like to review it). I sincerely doubt, however, that it supports your sweeping claims of current and pending environmental disaster. I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but here in the US we have made great strides in the last 30 years in controlling new sources of environmental pollution and cleaning up the legacy of our past practices. There are remaining problems to be sure, but children are not falling dead wholesale in the streets from "pollution" and there is certainly no decrease in fertility (much to the disappointment of some, I might add). Do not believe everything you see and hear in the popular press - virtually all of it is over-hyped, much is simply wrong. There is a great deal yet to be done, but the future (and the present, for that matter) is brighter than you think.
I suppose now it's getting to be about time for one of the self-appointed Guardians of Purity to weigh in and admonish us for not discussing travel and only travel!
I’ll let Kathy defend herself, if she cares to, but I take exception to your generalizations about PhDs. I never earned a PhD, though I’ve supervised, worked with, and worked for many of them in a long career as an environmental scientist. I count many among my closest friends. Fact is, they’re people like the rest of us - not better or worse, probably somewhat brighter than average, but otherwise pretty normal. What’s important is, whether we like it or not, they unquestionably know more about their area of specialization than the rest of us. Belittling them doesn’t change that and spouting ancecdotal evidence that flies in the face of current scientific thought doesn’t make a lay person an expert or advance a discussion that should be conducted with facts and data rather than opinions.
I’m not an expert in climatology, but your post also touched on a few areas that I am expert in, so let me address those briefly. I regularly read a variety of technical journals, but have not seen the Canadian study you cite (if you have the reference I’d like to review it). I sincerely doubt, however, that it supports your sweeping claims of current and pending environmental disaster. I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but here in the US we have made great strides in the last 30 years in controlling new sources of environmental pollution and cleaning up the legacy of our past practices. There are remaining problems to be sure, but children are not falling dead wholesale in the streets from "pollution" and there is certainly no decrease in fertility (much to the disappointment of some, I might add). Do not believe everything you see and hear in the popular press - virtually all of it is over-hyped, much is simply wrong. There is a great deal yet to be done, but the future (and the present, for that matter) is brighter than you think.
I suppose now it's getting to be about time for one of the self-appointed Guardians of Purity to weigh in and admonish us for not discussing travel and only travel!
Aug 23rd, 2000, 10:11 AM
#23
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Don't worry, Dick. This will be the first thread where the "What does this have to do with travel" folks actually keep their mouths shut. Why? They are worried that this global warming business could really be a bummer for the ski season.
By the way, careful when you suggest PhDs are smarter than most people. I don't have a PhD, but I have other degrees and I'm plenty smart. Science isn't the only profession in which one finds smart people. But I know you meant well, so no offense taken. Those daytime talk show PhDs are sure giving you guys a bad name, though. Maybe I'll fill out an application and get a PhD myself.
By the way, careful when you suggest PhDs are smarter than most people. I don't have a PhD, but I have other degrees and I'm plenty smart. Science isn't the only profession in which one finds smart people. But I know you meant well, so no offense taken. Those daytime talk show PhDs are sure giving you guys a bad name, though. Maybe I'll fill out an application and get a PhD myself.
Aug 23rd, 2000, 10:14 AM
#24
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By the way, why in the world would global warming cause thawed ice in the center of the polar ice cap? When I put a cube of ice in my drink, it gets smaller -- it doesn't get a whole in the middle. Why didn't the whole polar ice cap simply get smaller? Maybe I'm not so smart after all.
Aug 23rd, 2000, 11:11 AM
#25
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Excellent point there, Frozen. Wish I'd thought of it myself. I think I'm going to pick up a fresh bottle of Scotch on the way home and conduct a little research to confirm your observations. Probably need to run a few replicates. 8^)
Not to beat the PhD thing to death, but I really only said (and really only believe) that they're "probably somewhat smarter than average." Even at that there are days when I wonder . . .
You bet there are lots of smart non-PhDs (I like to think I'm one, too) and lots of dumber-than-posts PhDs, especially in the "softer" fields that spawn the psychobabblers. And for sure science hasn't cornered the market on smart people, though I do think that scientists at least know more about science than most folks.
Not to beat the PhD thing to death, but I really only said (and really only believe) that they're "probably somewhat smarter than average." Even at that there are days when I wonder . . .
You bet there are lots of smart non-PhDs (I like to think I'm one, too) and lots of dumber-than-posts PhDs, especially in the "softer" fields that spawn the psychobabblers. And for sure science hasn't cornered the market on smart people, though I do think that scientists at least know more about science than most folks.
Aug 23rd, 2000, 12:14 PM
#26
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Dick-The study Mom was referring to was by the Canadian Institute of Child Health conducted by a Dr. Granham Chance. It is billed as the most comprehensive exam on the health of Canadian children to date. It was in the paper this morning and published in "The Toronto Globe and Mail."
Totally unrelated, but have you ever hear Whitley Streiber, (I believe that is the spelling of his name) on the radio. He wrote a book about encounters with aliens and now he has his own syndicated radio show. I heard it Sunday night driving home. Weird stuff! He claims jets are leaving vapor trails that are killing people in Australia and has jumped on this global warming bandwagon. He scares me more than global warming!
Totally unrelated, but have you ever hear Whitley Streiber, (I believe that is the spelling of his name) on the radio. He wrote a book about encounters with aliens and now he has his own syndicated radio show. I heard it Sunday night driving home. Weird stuff! He claims jets are leaving vapor trails that are killing people in Australia and has jumped on this global warming bandwagon. He scares me more than global warming!
Aug 23rd, 2000, 02:00 PM
#27
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Thanks, Chuck. I was able to find a description of the study on-line (www.cich.ca/resource.htm) and also the press release from CICH summarizing the findings - not easily done as the report is some 350 pages. It covers much more than environmental issues and really doesn't appear to focus particularly on environmental impacts.
One section of the press release references a Canadian physicians group noting that children are born with residues of environmental contaminants already in their bodies, which is certainly true, and that this is a tragedy, which is probably also true. They also apparently claim that the health of the environment is the most important determinant of the health of children, which I think is debatable, though I suppose long-term they may well be correct.
One section of the press release references a Canadian physicians group noting that children are born with residues of environmental contaminants already in their bodies, which is certainly true, and that this is a tragedy, which is probably also true. They also apparently claim that the health of the environment is the most important determinant of the health of children, which I think is debatable, though I suppose long-term they may well be correct.
Aug 24th, 2000, 01:12 AM
#28
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Whitley Streiber? You mean the Whitley Streiber who claims that aliens have visited the Earth and interacted with human beings and crammed things up our noses? Streiber started writing in the 80s about the literally dozens of "encounters" he's had with big-eyed alien creatures that (he freely admits) might be hallucinations, delusions, dimensional travelers, time travelers--or, heck, maybe space aliens. Streiber claims that enormous creatures 200 miles long and shaped like obelisks live in the upper atmosphere.
Aug 24th, 2000, 05:51 AM
#29
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Guy-Yes that Whitley Streiber. I can not
believe they gave him his own radio show! He was on after 10 on Sunday night and he is syndicated! I was floored by some of the things he was saying such as vapor trails from jets are deliberately killing the elderly esp. in Australia, England and other countries, aliens living among us and things. And he has so called ex military experts on that back him up.
believe they gave him his own radio show! He was on after 10 on Sunday night and he is syndicated! I was floored by some of the things he was saying such as vapor trails from jets are deliberately killing the elderly esp. in Australia, England and other countries, aliens living among us and things. And he has so called ex military experts on that back him up.
