enzian

Hey, Dayle---I mean it. Your advice to me has always been spot on.

Yes, a hike would be fun. We'll be doing our Snowbird week next summer, and then hopefully some time in the High Uintas. I'll keep you posted.

moogrob, are you still looking in?

moogrob

hi all,

firstly - canyon-sized appreciation for all your comments. we (and yes, we're he/she, but if you like, you can call us 'it') were a little overwhelmed by the magnitude of stuff to do in the region, and i think it's clear that we need to choose a slightly smaller stomping ground.

in a perfect world, we'd be able to go from sunday morning to the following sunday evening and cover zion, bryce, arches, and the grand canyon, but i think we need to have a serious ponder.

let's put this to the vote, if i may be so bold: bryce or arches...? spirobulldog - we'll put you down for arches.

the narrows sound really cool, and maybe doable, with a bit of preparation. although, i personally haven't done any exercise for about 2 years. i'm not tubby, but i guess my ticker's not what it used to be.

we will most likely hike halfway down the grand canyon on one day, then take a copter ride on the next. we've got accommodation in the canyon on the friday and saturday night, so we're sorted there.

dayle - you mentioned about not driving at night, and it does make sense not to do this due to all the scenary we'd be missing out on, and the good ole avoidance of death by deer, but if you had to do it on one leg, which would it be?

maybe we just give up one day as a driving day, and make some stops to take in the vista and some lesser sites.

so - we're gonna reassess this weekend, and hopefully, if anyone's game, you can slap us around until we find a trip that fits next week.

by the way, we're leaving two weeks tomorrow...

again, thanks to you all for your advice. you definitely get a scout badge or something.

happy halloween...

WhereAreWe

Arches or Bryce? One vote here for Bryce - it's so close to Zion and make the most sense given the other places you're going. Arches is out of the way and there's so much to do around Moab that it would be best left for another weeklong trip.

I've not done the Narrows but...I'm quite sure it's a walk in the park compared to hiking halfway down into the Grand Canyon.

I've not been everywhere you listed, but 2 things to consider if you really want to drive at least one leg at night: Zion to Bryce is probably the shortest leg you have, and Bryce is at its best at sunrise. I didn't think the drive between Zion and Bryce was much to get excited about - the only scenic part was Red Canyon but you would backtrack and go throught it on your way to Page.

Dayle

moogrob,

I wouldn't hesitate to do the Vegas-Zion route at night. Mostly I-15 and little to see. Although the Virgin River Gorge is pretty spectacular for a first timer. It took 30 years to build those few miles.

I would definitely not do the Zion-Bryce drive at night or around dusk or dawn. Not because of the scenery, but because of the deer. Very high chance of hitting one, or more. Unless - you are willing to drive very, very slowly.

I also would not do the Bryce-Torrey Hwy 12. You go up over Boulder Mtn which is over 10,000 ft. Plus, it's one of the most incredible scenic byways in the country.

There was a poster on here about a year ago (if I remember correctly) who (due to poor planning) drove over Boulder Mountain at night during October in a sedan. Hit a deer, scared herself to death and also hit a whiteout blizzard. A family at the high campground (deer hunting) helped her and "saved" her. You might search "Utah" and scroll back far enough to find it.

I would do the Torrey (Capitol Reef)- to Moab part during the night, but still driving slowly. Not so many deer at that elevation (pure desert), but lots of pronghorn antelope, just beautiful little things. A joy to see.

Really you should choose between LV-GC-Zion and Bryce or GC and Moab. Moab (Arches and Canyonlands) deserves at least 4 full days. Moab is still pretty nice in November temp wise, but you never know about rain/snow.

I'll be at Zion myself for the long Thanksgiving weekend. Very busy time, but usually nice weather and temps and fall colors. Big difference between Zion (low) and Bryce - 8,000 ft.

spirobulldog

Fri/Sat
Grand Canyon, Helicopter, Hike along Rim, Hike below Rim, See the historic sights. There are towers and other things to see along the way, someone else can add to this.
Eat at least lunch in El Tovar.

Sun/Mon
Two nights in Zion. Hike Canyon Overlook, The Narrows. There is nothing to it, just get drypants, shoes and socks at Zion Adventure Company in Springdale. Springdale is a short 10 minute drive to the park. There are several places to eat or stay in Springdale, but I would stay in the park. I checked and there is cabins and motel rooms available. You will be more happy with the cabin in my opinion. Eat at the lodge for a meal. We found it to be very good. We really enjoyed Whiptail Grill in Springdale as well. Oh yeah, watch out for the Wild Turkey and Deer. Almost guarantee you will see both.

Mon/Tues Bryce. I guess you will stay at Ruby's since the Lodge is closed in November. Not sure here what options are as I haven't been there. I would for sure hike Queens Garden/Navajo Loop trail. Also I would consider the horseback on peekaboo if it is offered at this time.

You should sneak in a day and do Antelope Canyon. I have read that Canyon X is better because it doesn't have but a few people to it each day. I haven't done either.

Tues/Wed
You could head over to Capital Reef VIA hwy 12. I don't know if Calf Creek Falls runs year round, but I would stop and see if it is running either coming or going to cap reef.

Thurs

start your return
check out vegas you last day.
Oh, The Hoover Dam. If you can see it, check it out as well.

Good Grief, you are out of time and I voted for Arches. LOL. I would save it for later since you are for sure doing the Grand Canyon.

If you get really wild, try canyoneering in Zion.

Oh, I don't think I remember anyone mentioning it, but by a National Park Pass at the Grand Canyon. This is good for a year and cost $80. Otherwise, it will be probably $25 per park, which is good for a week or so at each park.

I can almost promise you that seeing the Grand Canyon for your first time is very moving. It will almost bring you to your knees. That first look is a whopper, walking up onto the canyon rim.

spirobulldog

as far as driving, nights, and weather- I would go with whatever Dayle thinks.

WhereAreWe

I'll take a stab at a possible itinerary.

15th - fly into Las Vegas and overnight there

16th - drive to Zion, pick up gear for Narrows hike at Zion Adventure Company. Do some easier hikes in the main canyon (Weeping Rock, Three Pools) or possibly Canyon Overlook on the east side

17th - Narrows hike in the morning/early afternoon, then return gear and relax

18th - Angels Landing in the morning, then drive to Bryce for the night. If the road in Bryce is fully open, drive to the end and it's not too late in the day, do the Bristlecone Pine trail. It's pretty flat and easy. Drive back to the entrance or wherever your lodging is, stopping at various viewpoints.

19th - Up early to catch sunrise in Bryce at one of the viewpoints, then hike down into the main part of Bryce on one of the loop trails. Pick whichever one suits your fitness and time available. After that, leave and head up to Capitol Reef for some scenic drives. Overnight in Torrey.

20th - Short hikes in Capital plus drive to Page. Visit Horseshoe Bend, etc. while en route. Overnight in Page.

21st - Antelope Canyon, then drive to Grand Canyon via East entrance. Stop at the Watchtower and go to the top, then keep driving to the main village, stopping wherever you feel like stopping. Sunset somewhere along the rim.

22nd - Hike down the South Kaibab trail to Cedar Ridge (1.5 miles one-way) or Skeleton Point (3 miles one-way). No water on this trail so carry enough for the day, but much better views than Bright Angel and much less people traffic. There probably won't be any water on Bright Angel until Indian Garden either. When done, relax, walk along the rim, maybe take the helicopter ride or save that for the next morning.

23rd - Plan on at least 5 hours to drive back to Las Vegas, more if you want to stop at Hoover Dam on the way. If you have a late flight, then you'll have a bit of time to walk along the rim or take that helicopter flight.

Possible alternate plans:
- If your flight into Las Vegas is early enough, you could drive to Zion that day/evening instead of staying overnight in Vegas. You could then do the Narrows on the 16th and Angels Landing on the 17th, and save Canyon Overlook for the morning of the 18th as you'll be driving past that trailhead on your way to Bryce.
- Not sure if it makes sense to drive from Bryce to Capitol Reef for one day. If you skip that, you could either add another day to one of the parks or try to fit in an overnight at Monument Valley. If you substitute Monument Valley for Capitol Reef, you'd be much closer to Page and could probably see Antelope Canyon on the 20th instead of the 21st. That would give you an earlier start on the 21st and you could possibly schedule your helicopter flight for that afternoon.

peterboy

Rather than rehash all the pros and cons from the posts above, I'll just link you to our trip report from our last trip.

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/utah_tr

We didn't do Grand Canyon but time could be taken from Torrey, for instance, to make room for a night there which I'd suggest as your first destination.

As others have indicated, you don't have time for the full Grand Circle Tour to include Moab and Monument Valley.

moogrob

well, thanks to you all again for your advice on this. your time and knowledge are very much appreciated.

from your suggestions, we've taken the advice not to drive at night very seriously (mostly), and readjusted our schedule based on this, with only one leg to be done at night - slowly, and with lots of coffee inside us.

we've also decided to get right out of sin city as soon as we land to get another day out of zion, and attempt both the narrows and angels landing, instead of one or the other as previously scheduled.

and, although we're probably gonna be kicked out of the club for doing the following, we really wanted to see arches this time round (there may not be another chance for me if u.s. immigration choose to be unkind), and have sacrificed a full day to drive over there, stopping by at goblin valley for an hour during sunset, and taking in the scenery between bryce and moab on highway 12.

yes, we may be biting off more than we can chew, and you all are off the hook if we die of exhaustion by day four. i guess it's now more of a road trip with intermittent stops for a stroll than it is a hiking trip. over 1,200 miles will be driven in 9 days... the upshot will be that we'll have pretty much a taste of everything, which will put us in good standing for knowing where to come on a return trip (if we're that lucky).

and honestly - we live in chicago; ANY hill's gonna provoke the sort of excitement that only dogs feel when they meet another member of their species.

we'll catch up with you later. take it easy, and thanks again.

peterboy

I hope you have buns of steel!

Hey, better a quick trip than
no trip at all. If the weather cooperates...you'll have a fine time.

moogrob

not to toot my own horn, but my buns are bulletproof.

nice journal, peterboy. can't wait to see them sites.

spirobulldog

so your gonna do Zion, Moab and Grand Canyon. Are you stopping at Bryce? I wonder if a stop at Goblin Valley is better than Calf Creek Falls? I haven't been to either, but maybe someone can comment on that.

Let me state again-GREAT TOUR!
www.deserthighlights.com

the couple of people who have done this recommendation enjoyed it. One of them even went for a 2nd day after she did it.

totally skipping Vegas is a great idea.

what are did you come up with for lodging and have you picked out any places to eat?

I wonder if you couldn't work your schedule around to where you could just drive one way and not have to return to Vegas. You could fly our of Moab or Grand Junction. This would save a lot of time driving

Myer

I've been to both Goblin Valley and Lower Calf Creek Falls.

I would add to the mix Willis Creek just south of Cannonville on the way from Bryce to Boulder/Torrey.

Willis Creek - a real slot canyon with very easy walking/hiking. You can stop after as many portions a you want. A couple of very small water falls. About 15 minutes south of Cannonville (take right hand fork and not left to Grosvenor Arch)on a bit of a hairy dirt road. You get into the start of the canyon within 5 minutes of leaving the unmarked parking lot. Total time of about 2 hours.

Lower Calf Creek Falls. The most spectacular of the three sights. However, the hike is about 2.5 miles each way. We were there in 95 degree weather and there's no shade. November should be a lot cooler. The hike is easy and pretty level though on sand. While the falls are spectacular the hike is just so-so.

I would try to get them all in.

Goblin Valley. A lot more fun than I thought. About 20 minutes off the main road. You don't have to venture very far from the parking lot to see about an hour's worth of rock formations. I thought this area looked like the Devil's Garden Escalante before it grew up.

peterboy

"I wonder if a stop at Goblin Valley is better than Calf Creek Falls?"

I'm not one who feels the need to pick favorite parks or one site over another. Comparing Calf Creek Falls to Goblins is apple to oranges.

Within the context of moogrob's whirlwind trip however, Goblins would be the quicker and more unique of the two. You drive right up to the hoodoos at Goblins and can spend as much time as you wish wandering among them.

Either would be a nice break from driving to stretch legs and such but Calf Creek Falls will require a couple of hours.

Calf Creek Falls:
http://www.pbase.com/peterb/utah04&page=5


Goblins:

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/utah_03&page=8