One Traveler's Opinion: The Fine Art of Car Rental Extortion
Oct 19th, 2005, 07:23 AM
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One Traveler's Opinion: The Fine Art of Car Rental Extortion
I travel on business with some frequency and, when I need to rent a car, I follow company policy and never accept either the Collision Damage Waiver (or CDW, as it’s called in the travel industry), or Personal Accident Insurance. Virtually all company insurance policies cover accidents quite well. I also invariably gravitate to the well-known names in the industry, such as Hertz and Avis, and depend that my company has negotiated a reasonable discount for itself.
Last week, however, I was traveling on my own nickel, attending to family business in Georgia. I needed a car for three days and found an inexpensive one through Expedia with Payless. While the rental center was ‘off premises’ from the Atlanta airport, I was willing to trade the few extra minutes I would have otherwise saved for nearly $20 per day less of rental expense versus those on-premises renters. What I encountered when the van arrived at Payless bears describing as a warning for travelers.
I was the fifth person in line waiting to rent. What the four families in front of me went through is probably against the law and, if it isn’t, it should be. They were all offered three levels of insurance, ranging from ‘basic’ to ‘premium’. If they declined, they were then warned that their credit cards could be blocked for thousands of dollars against potential damages to the cars. This, alone, was enough to scare three of the families into accepting at least a basic policy. The person in front of me also declined, even after being told that he could find the list price of the car he was renting charged his card. So, the rental agent carefully explained that all damage to the interior or exterior of the car would be noted and that he would be liable for not only its repair, but also for the ‘lost economic value of the car’; i.e., for ever day the car was out of service, he would be charged as though he had rented it, ‘even if that takes weeks.’ He would also be charged for the ‘company’s cost of doing business’, which was explained as the cost of the paperwork involved, ‘which itself could be as much as the repair cost,’ and he was assured that these costs would be rejected by his insurance company and that he, individually, would bear their cost. That person finally succumbed to buying a ‘basic’ CDW.
When my turn came, I said, ‘don’t even start.’ But I got the full fear-of-full-liability pitch. Even after I had declined, I was told, ‘there’s still time to reconsider.’ Was I not certain that I would be charged for the three-day rental, I would have gotten back on the shuttle van, returned to the airport, and gone straight to Avis.
My car was then brought around. It had apparently recently entered their fleet, as it had 15000 miles on it and bore temporary tags. The car had a dented fender and numerous scruffs and scrapes. The person who brought it around for me made a few cursory notations on a car diagram and asked me to sign that I concurred with his assessment. “No, let’s get them all,” I said. And so for ten minutes, we went over every body panel and noted every imperfection.
Then, I took out my digital camera and started taking pictures. I asked the attendant to stand next to the car so there would be no question but that photos were taken before the start of the rental period. Only then did I leave.
When I returned the car, the person checking me in looked at my paperwork and grinned. “You’re the one who took pictures.” There were no extra charges.
It goes without saying that I’ve rented with Payless for the last time. It has probably made me unlikely to ever go ‘off-premises’ again. Discount car rental agencies have a place in the vacation universe, but there’s no excuse for fear-of-God tactics that serve no purpose other than to extort an addition $15-25 per day from the unwitting traveler who is told that a minor fender dent received in a motel parking lot while he or she slept could end up costing that traveler thousands of dollars.
Last week, however, I was traveling on my own nickel, attending to family business in Georgia. I needed a car for three days and found an inexpensive one through Expedia with Payless. While the rental center was ‘off premises’ from the Atlanta airport, I was willing to trade the few extra minutes I would have otherwise saved for nearly $20 per day less of rental expense versus those on-premises renters. What I encountered when the van arrived at Payless bears describing as a warning for travelers.
I was the fifth person in line waiting to rent. What the four families in front of me went through is probably against the law and, if it isn’t, it should be. They were all offered three levels of insurance, ranging from ‘basic’ to ‘premium’. If they declined, they were then warned that their credit cards could be blocked for thousands of dollars against potential damages to the cars. This, alone, was enough to scare three of the families into accepting at least a basic policy. The person in front of me also declined, even after being told that he could find the list price of the car he was renting charged his card. So, the rental agent carefully explained that all damage to the interior or exterior of the car would be noted and that he would be liable for not only its repair, but also for the ‘lost economic value of the car’; i.e., for ever day the car was out of service, he would be charged as though he had rented it, ‘even if that takes weeks.’ He would also be charged for the ‘company’s cost of doing business’, which was explained as the cost of the paperwork involved, ‘which itself could be as much as the repair cost,’ and he was assured that these costs would be rejected by his insurance company and that he, individually, would bear their cost. That person finally succumbed to buying a ‘basic’ CDW.
When my turn came, I said, ‘don’t even start.’ But I got the full fear-of-full-liability pitch. Even after I had declined, I was told, ‘there’s still time to reconsider.’ Was I not certain that I would be charged for the three-day rental, I would have gotten back on the shuttle van, returned to the airport, and gone straight to Avis.
My car was then brought around. It had apparently recently entered their fleet, as it had 15000 miles on it and bore temporary tags. The car had a dented fender and numerous scruffs and scrapes. The person who brought it around for me made a few cursory notations on a car diagram and asked me to sign that I concurred with his assessment. “No, let’s get them all,” I said. And so for ten minutes, we went over every body panel and noted every imperfection.
Then, I took out my digital camera and started taking pictures. I asked the attendant to stand next to the car so there would be no question but that photos were taken before the start of the rental period. Only then did I leave.
When I returned the car, the person checking me in looked at my paperwork and grinned. “You’re the one who took pictures.” There were no extra charges.
It goes without saying that I’ve rented with Payless for the last time. It has probably made me unlikely to ever go ‘off-premises’ again. Discount car rental agencies have a place in the vacation universe, but there’s no excuse for fear-of-God tactics that serve no purpose other than to extort an addition $15-25 per day from the unwitting traveler who is told that a minor fender dent received in a motel parking lot while he or she slept could end up costing that traveler thousands of dollars.
Oct 19th, 2005, 07:27 AM
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Good for you Neal!!!!
I thought I was the only one who took pics of a rental car when my "Spider Sense" starts tingling.
I even list the littlest ding/smudges, even in the interior.
I've been know to write "various little scratches too numerous to mention" and scribble on the little paper they give you to show damage because it can give you a "That's what I meant" way out!
I'm sure you'll be writing a letter to their Brass, too?
And if anybody does get a fender bender, take a pic of that too so you can compare it with a repair bid. Maybe even go get one on your own before turning it in.
I thought I was the only one who took pics of a rental car when my "Spider Sense" starts tingling.
I even list the littlest ding/smudges, even in the interior.
I've been know to write "various little scratches too numerous to mention" and scribble on the little paper they give you to show damage because it can give you a "That's what I meant" way out!
I'm sure you'll be writing a letter to their Brass, too?
And if anybody does get a fender bender, take a pic of that too so you can compare it with a repair bid. Maybe even go get one on your own before turning it in.
Oct 19th, 2005, 07:35 AM
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Wow... that's crazy. Wasn't there a class-action suit brought against Enterprise for this exact reason? And, yes, I do believe that it is against the "law" for them to "harrass" customers into buying the CDW and PAI. This should be brought to the attention of the State Attorney General's office.
Oct 19th, 2005, 07:45 AM
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There was a class action suit against Enterprise. I should have been involved.
Not only did they show dents and dings that weren't there (I didn't have a camera when I took the rental, just on return) and wanted to charge the out of service fee bull. But Enterprise would hold the car until it had several of those dents and dings before taking to repair and charge EVERYONE the out of commission fee. Great way to increase revenue. Bad way to keep customers.
Last time I dealt with Enterprise (it was an insurance company rental after a wreck) and I don't plan on ever going back again.
Not only did they show dents and dings that weren't there (I didn't have a camera when I took the rental, just on return) and wanted to charge the out of service fee bull. But Enterprise would hold the car until it had several of those dents and dings before taking to repair and charge EVERYONE the out of commission fee. Great way to increase revenue. Bad way to keep customers.
Last time I dealt with Enterprise (it was an insurance company rental after a wreck) and I don't plan on ever going back again.
Oct 19th, 2005, 07:56 AM
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I STRONGLY encourage everyone who encounters this type of "thievery" immediately call, write a letter, notify in any way, their State Attorney General's office. If it were here in NY, heck, I'd call Eliot Spitzer himself -- he lives for this type of stuff.
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:05 AM
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I occaisionally rent cars for short trips (I don't own one and it is cheaper) but I've always been a bit wary and quite frankly nervous about all of these Damage Waivers as I don't have car insurance. I usually get the minimal one and rent with an American Express card that also has some rental insurance, but I find the whole issue so fuzzy it always makes me a bit nervous everytime I drive out of the parking garage. Any experts out there on what I should really be doing, I seem to get so many mixed signals.
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:09 AM
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Neal, thanks to this post, I am going to have my digital camera ready the next time I rent a car.
I did go through the exact same thing with Enterprise, years ago, and have never used them since. The clerk even came out of the office to watch me drive out of the lot, her arms crossed and head shaking, as if she couldn't believe I was driving away without the $9/day "protection". It was an insurance rental too, and I reported her behavior to my State Farm claims rep. I never heard about the class action suit.
I haven't had this problem with National, Budget, Hertz, Dollar or Alamo in the years since.
I did go through the exact same thing with Enterprise, years ago, and have never used them since. The clerk even came out of the office to watch me drive out of the lot, her arms crossed and head shaking, as if she couldn't believe I was driving away without the $9/day "protection". It was an insurance rental too, and I reported her behavior to my State Farm claims rep. I never heard about the class action suit.
I haven't had this problem with National, Budget, Hertz, Dollar or Alamo in the years since.
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:27 AM
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I have arranged in the past rental cars for my sister at our companies corporate rate with National and Alamo. Not only was she aggresively approached with the CDW, but she called me from the Alamo rental desk once in tears because the guy who was arranging paperwork told her that if her son died during a car accident they would not be in anyway be responsible!!!
Needless to say, my company cancelled our 50K usage agreement with both companies.....
Needless to say, my company cancelled our 50K usage agreement with both companies.....
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:38 AM
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Wow, that's shocking, Neal. I have rented with Dollar for years and have never been bullied into insuarnce with then, nor have I ever had problem with minor dings that were already there upon return of the car.
The only circumstance I've had that comes even close to not being ideal with them was on rental at MIA a few weeks ago. When departing the rental lot I asked about several obvious scratches on the back bumper and told by an agent not to worry about it. However, upon my return it was noted on my bill and when I explained the situation when I departed, all I had to do was go inside and sign a few documents regarding the fact that the damage had already been there when I got the car. Everything was easily settled with no extra charges.
I like the camera idea, though. I'll have to remember that. Guess I'll be sticking with Dollar after reading some issues people have had with other agencies (knock on wood).
The only circumstance I've had that comes even close to not being ideal with them was on rental at MIA a few weeks ago. When departing the rental lot I asked about several obvious scratches on the back bumper and told by an agent not to worry about it. However, upon my return it was noted on my bill and when I explained the situation when I departed, all I had to do was go inside and sign a few documents regarding the fact that the damage had already been there when I got the car. Everything was easily settled with no extra charges.
I like the camera idea, though. I'll have to remember that. Guess I'll be sticking with Dollar after reading some issues people have had with other agencies (knock on wood).
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:38 AM
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In my own case my CC will only cover what my personal auto insurance policy won't cover and I have absolouetely no desire to have my personal auto insurance carrier in ANY way involved.
So, I pay the exhorbitant rates on the few occasions when I do a rental and I'm happy, and able to afford, that peace of mind...to each their own.
Nobody likes "high presure" sales tactics and that, for me, would be reason enough to avoid that rental that saved you a few bucks by being "off-airport."
Hertz and Avis..sure, they do it too only with a somewhat much "softer sell" which I an easily handle.
So, I pay the exhorbitant rates on the few occasions when I do a rental and I'm happy, and able to afford, that peace of mind...to each their own.
Nobody likes "high presure" sales tactics and that, for me, would be reason enough to avoid that rental that saved you a few bucks by being "off-airport."
Hertz and Avis..sure, they do it too only with a somewhat much "softer sell" which I an easily handle.
Oct 19th, 2005, 08:46 AM
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Knock on wood, but I have never had a problem with Enterprise (at least the local neighborhood location I usually rent from). I just use a platinum MasterCard and have my own insurance take care of anything if it happened. THey used to push the CDW coverage hard when I first rented from them, then after they got to know me, never made a big deal about it.
I am on a first name basis with the manager there, so I guess that helps. The only time I consider getting the CDW is in the winter.
I am on a first name basis with the manager there, so I guess that helps. The only time I consider getting the CDW is in the winter.
Oct 19th, 2005, 09:58 AM
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I've only felt bullied once and that was when I rented a car from Alamo in Las Vegas. The agent said in a bitchy tone, "You ARE taking the CDW, AREN'T YOU!!" I told her no because I have my own insurance. She started trying to scare me into taking it, telling me every worst case scenario she could think of. I got right back into her face and told her that I have done my research and I know this is a rip-off, as I will be covered in full by State Farm in case of a mishap. She tried to tell me this is not true and that I really should take the insurance. I informed her that we did have a mishap once in a rental car and we were covered 100%, no problems. I don't usually raise my voice, but I noticed that once I was saying this loud enough about to be heard by other customers, she backed down.
Conversely, last May I rented a car in London from National (the new owner of Alamo). The lady brought up the insurance question and that's OK because it's her job. But in the same breath she told me it's a waste of money if I'm sure my credit card will cover it. Once again I had done my homework and I knew I had full coverage, so I declined the CDW with no hassles from the rental agency.
Conversely, last May I rented a car in London from National (the new owner of Alamo). The lady brought up the insurance question and that's OK because it's her job. But in the same breath she told me it's a waste of money if I'm sure my credit card will cover it. Once again I had done my homework and I knew I had full coverage, so I declined the CDW with no hassles from the rental agency.
Oct 19th, 2005, 10:17 AM
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Neal, it is good to see you posting!
It is great to read this, as my husband says, There are thieves all over the place..and I am so pleased to read how you dealt with these.
Did you also send a letter to someone about the possible illegality of their "full-of-fear-liability pitch"?
It is great to read this, as my husband says, There are thieves all over the place..and I am so pleased to read how you dealt with these.
Did you also send a letter to someone about the possible illegality of their "full-of-fear-liability pitch"?
Oct 19th, 2005, 11:14 AM
#15
I hate the hard sell of insurance and other rental scams, especially the "prepaid fuel" gimmick that all of them are now pitching.
I was once doing the "walk around" with an agency person before the rental, and I sort of laughingly said, "Make sure it's complete - I'd hate to drag in the Visa people, not to mention the state AG or the insurance commissioner," words to that effect, ha ha.
Man, did he do a thorough job.
One note of caution, though. When it comes to credit card or personal auto insurance coverage, don't forget the Gipper's immortal words - trust but verify.
Great to hear from you again, Neal.
I was once doing the "walk around" with an agency person before the rental, and I sort of laughingly said, "Make sure it's complete - I'd hate to drag in the Visa people, not to mention the state AG or the insurance commissioner," words to that effect, ha ha.
Man, did he do a thorough job.
One note of caution, though. When it comes to credit card or personal auto insurance coverage, don't forget the Gipper's immortal words - trust but verify.
Great to hear from you again, Neal.
Oct 19th, 2005, 11:35 AM
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This was a good one from Alamo in MCO: "Do you want full coverage or just the basic?" As if "Nothing" wasn't an option. I noticed them to get aggressive with foreigners, too. When I said "None" they went into this whole ordeal about "Who's your insurance carrier?" and "But you'll have to pay a deductible!" as if I'm not subject to a deductible every time I step into my own vehicle. To avoid all of this, some companies have a "dodge the line" club, like Dollar's used to be "Fastlane" (changed the name) and Alamo's was "Quicksilver". You keep a profile in which you can say "Decline all insurance" and "Decline fuel option" and they never ask you about that when you pick up the car and there's no hard sell.
Oct 19th, 2005, 11:56 AM
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i rented at thrifty MIA in april.we came over from the uk for a wonderful vacation.
i had prepaid for the rental which was fully insured gold cover including the free tank of gas(now nearly £1 / litre).
however before we came out i was told about the hardsale and not to bother as them guys made lots of commision.
they didn't dissapoint and when they got no joy they then tried to make me upgrade.
the most annoying thing was how the attendant suddenly stopped speaking english as a rather friendly welcome.
they gave me the keys in the pitch black that i didn't even know what colour the car was let alone if there were any scratches or dents ect.
still we had a great time and will definately be returning
i had prepaid for the rental which was fully insured gold cover including the free tank of gas(now nearly £1 / litre).
however before we came out i was told about the hardsale and not to bother as them guys made lots of commision.
they didn't dissapoint and when they got no joy they then tried to make me upgrade.
the most annoying thing was how the attendant suddenly stopped speaking english as a rather friendly welcome.
they gave me the keys in the pitch black that i didn't even know what colour the car was let alone if there were any scratches or dents ect.
still we had a great time and will definately be returning
Oct 20th, 2005, 05:24 AM
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My thanks to everyone who replied with their own thoughts. Loki, I, too, was subject of a demand to know who was my insurance carrier (my response to the agent was that it was none of their business). Cfntmpn, an agent telling you that they're not responsible if a child dies in an accident is about as low a tactic as can be used.
Ncgrrl, I vaguely remember the class action suit against Enterprise, but I also remember that the settlement (after attorney's fees) was that everyone got a certificat for a one-class upgrade on their next rental. In other words, the suit was a nuisance rather than a deterrent to future bad behavior.
Scarlett and Gardyloo, thank you for the welcome back. I am, in fact, drafting a letter to Payless. One of my reasons for posting was to get feedback on the premise -- and I got an earful. I have more time to write these days; I promise to be a more frequent poster.
Ncgrrl, I vaguely remember the class action suit against Enterprise, but I also remember that the settlement (after attorney's fees) was that everyone got a certificat for a one-class upgrade on their next rental. In other words, the suit was a nuisance rather than a deterrent to future bad behavior.
Scarlett and Gardyloo, thank you for the welcome back. I am, in fact, drafting a letter to Payless. One of my reasons for posting was to get feedback on the premise -- and I got an earful. I have more time to write these days; I promise to be a more frequent poster.
Oct 20th, 2005, 05:48 AM
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The person in IL to contact if that ever happens here is Lisa Madigan.
One time in FL my daughter and I (she was just about 21)were all alone and we went through three different car rentals in Orlando within a 2 day time frame because of this exact scencaro.
I ended up refusing to rent a car and voted with my feet. We took shuttles etc. and had a great time anyway.
My belief was that they just tended to rack women over the coals like this, but I can see it is sometimes gender unspecific. It's disgusting. In Phoenix about 2 years ago, my guy ended up taking pictures with the agent and doing exactly as Neal just did. He also wrote letters to the company and to the state investigators.
THANKS, Neal, and do post again and again. Your knowledge is expansive and I have missed your travelogue reports immensely. And not just in the content of great travel information, but in the subjective style as well.
One time in FL my daughter and I (she was just about 21)were all alone and we went through three different car rentals in Orlando within a 2 day time frame because of this exact scencaro.
I ended up refusing to rent a car and voted with my feet. We took shuttles etc. and had a great time anyway.
My belief was that they just tended to rack women over the coals like this, but I can see it is sometimes gender unspecific. It's disgusting. In Phoenix about 2 years ago, my guy ended up taking pictures with the agent and doing exactly as Neal just did. He also wrote letters to the company and to the state investigators.
THANKS, Neal, and do post again and again. Your knowledge is expansive and I have missed your travelogue reports immensely. And not just in the content of great travel information, but in the subjective style as well.
Oct 20th, 2005, 05:49 AM
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For some reason I've never been pressured. They ask, but when I say no, they take it and move right on. Maybe once in Florida when I was visiting my mom, but I just told them, hey, I rent cars all the time for business travel and vacations and I know I'm covered without your insurance.
I wonder if it is more likely at Airport locations that are not in the terminal (they "have" you out there). I remember the process with the least upselling was at a neighborhood Enterprise in MD. In fact, after renting from them twice within a year, they started giving us discounts so that when we took long driving trips it was cheaper for us to leave our own car at home!
I'm guessing they put the pressure on the airport desks to "upsell, upsell, upsell" simply because they can. (Sort of like the drive thru saying "you want fries with that?")
Good to read your posts again, Neal!
I wonder if it is more likely at Airport locations that are not in the terminal (they "have" you out there). I remember the process with the least upselling was at a neighborhood Enterprise in MD. In fact, after renting from them twice within a year, they started giving us discounts so that when we took long driving trips it was cheaper for us to leave our own car at home!
I'm guessing they put the pressure on the airport desks to "upsell, upsell, upsell" simply because they can. (Sort of like the drive thru saying "you want fries with that?")
Good to read your posts again, Neal!
