We will be arriving in November and I have a rough itinerary. I figured we'll do the double decker tour for 2 days with the new york pass. Is it worth it?

Day 1 - Times Square. Toys R Us (is this quite a walk from Times Square?) Dinner- Virgil's, John's Pizzeria, Joe Allen, Ruby Foo's or Ellen's Stardust

Day 2 & 3. All loops tour. One of the grayline centers are in the port authority bus terminal. Is that area dodgy? Should I avoid that place? For the tour, here are the stops I am interested in and places of interest for each stop:

- Macy's / Madison Square Garden = Blue Smoke

- Empire State Bldg - see near dusk

- Greenwich Village - Gray's Papaya, Corner Bistro, John's Pizzeria, Lupa, Joe's Pizza, Washington Park (WHAT EXACTLY IS THERE TO SEE IN GV?)

- Soho - Walk around Tribeca (LIKE GV, WHAT IS THERE TO SEE HERE?), Nobu (if we can afford it), Lombardi's Pizza

- Battery Park/Statue of Liberty - do the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island Tour

- Lower East Side Grand and Allen Sts - Children?s Museum and Katz Deli

- United Nations - UN, Grand Central Terminal

- Waldorf-Astoria - St. Patrick's Cathedral, FAO, Serendipity, Ess-a-Bagel

- Rockefeller Center/ Radio City Music Hall - Most of these tours do not permit children under 6 though. Are there any other tours that will not allow my toddler in? Hubby and I discussed that one can go join the tour and the other one can just go back to the hotel with the toddler and rest if this is the case

- Park Central Hotel - Carnegie Hall, Carnegie Deli

- Cathedral of St. John the Divine

- Metropolitan Museum of Art

Day 3 - Zabar's, CENTRAL PARK (Carousel, Zoo, Wollman Rink), Tavern on the Green and a carriage ride at the end.

Day 4 - Wall Street (hubby is an investment banker so this is a MUST) Is the financial district walkable from Battery Park? Any tips we should know here? Visit Century 21 here

Finally, what can I bring home for my child's schoolmates/teachers from NY? I've read about black and white cookies but will they keep for an 18+hr flight back home?

Thanks for all the help.

The Toys R US store is in Times Square. You might be thinking of FAO Schwartz which is roughly 10 blocks from Times Square.

The area around the Port Authority, which is just a block of so from the start of Times Square, is basically fine. Yes, there are a few homeless. But, it is also a major commuter route and plenty of regular 9-5 commuters. You'll be fine.

Greenwich Village is good for people watching and strolling around browsing shops. Same with Tribeca and Soho. The attraction is the neighborhood, not one particular tourist site.

The Battery is part of the financial district. To Wall Street and Trinity Church, it is about a 10 minute walk with toddler in stroller (an hour with toddler walking and stopping every 2 feet.)

In terms of bringing something home, the Toys R Us store has a large selection of NYC merchandise.

I don't think you will need the 2 day tour pass, just do a one day, and you will see most things.

You didn't mention the South St. Seaport and that is in the immediate area as well, some fun things to see there and some good restaurants. From City Hall to the Battery is probably not much more than a 10 minute walk or so and that entire area is considered the Wall St area. When you get to City Hall just walk downtown and when you get to the huge Merrill Lynch Building, the other side of it is the location of the World Trade Center, which as you know is just a huge hole in the ground now. While you are in Battery Park, you might find the memorial to the WTC, and the globe that was the at the center of the plaza there. It was damaged on 9/11 and is now displayed at Battery Park.

You can also find the Church to Mother Elizabeth Seton (the first American Saint) there as well, and across the street is the ferry terminal to Staten Island, which is a nice ride at dusk as well. Great views of the city and the Statue of Liberty and the ferry ride is free.

Get a metro card for the bus and subway and keep it handy so when you just can't walk anymore you can hop on a bus and see the city while you travel.

St. John the Devine, is located at 110th and Amsterdam. I was part of a huge concert there on Saturday, and there were tons of tourists seeing the facility while the concert was going on. It is only 2/3 done now, and it is one of the largest cathedrals in the world and when finished will be the largest cathedral in the world. There are concerts and performances done there ALL the time.

The best advice I can give you is pick an area of town and see everything you want to see in that area and the following day pick another area, so you spend less time traveling and more time site seeing. The bessssst thing is to have a map of the city handy and mark out the things you want to see so you don't miss anything.

Have a GREAT time.

Thanks Ryan and wantsomesun. I had planned the 2 day all loops tour because that's the only one available. There is an option for a separate downtown and uptown loop but it would be more expensive that way.

There is also a Brooklyn tour. What can I see there? I've read about the Promenade (?) and Coney Island and quite a few culinary delights but the stops are in Fulton Mall, Antique Furniture District, Adam Street. Would those attractions I've mentioned be quite far from these stops?

I will check out the NYC merchandise from Toys R Us but can I bring home the black and white cookies or do they melt and how much are they?

Figure the cookies will be about a $1.00 each, and they will come boxed an should be fine by the time you get home.

You probably won't have enough time to see everything you want to see and Coney Island you can take off your list, it is closed for the season, only open in the warm months.

If you have not been to NYC before, I think the sites to see in Manhattan will be more than enough for your first trip. You can spend an entire week at the Met alone.

You mentioned St. Johns as being on your list, you might want to combine that with a trip to the Cloisters which is a bit further up through Ft. Tyron Park, and in nice weather, it would be a nice walk through park to the museum. The views from there are breathtaking, of the NJ Pallisades and the Hudson River, you will have no idea you are still in Manhattan. Take the subway up (the #1 or the A) to 209th St (I think that's the stop, but check at the token booth) and then walk through the Park. There is also a very cute restaurant that you will walk by.

Have a fun time while you are here.

Thanks wantsomesun.

How long will it take to walk the Brooklyn Bridge to get to Grimaldi's?

As for Times Square, we are staying in that area. Would it be safe to assume that most restaurants (like Virgil's?) would free up when the broadway shows are on? When is the best time (least-crowded) to eat in this area. We are arriving late afternoon, would like to have dinner in the area but do not have not enough time to make reservations.

In the village, Washington Sq. Park has a couple of little playgrounds for your toddler. Also the Hudson River park (battery Park city) has some great playgrounds.

America, on 18th St between B'way and 5th av is a great place for a weekend brunch/lunch with a toddler. There are strolling magicians and calloon animal makers. It's a huge space and very kid friendly.

oops...that should say balloon not calloon.

Zizz-
The walk across the Brooklyn Bridge should take 20-30 minutes depending on your walking speed.

I can tell you a little more about the bus tour stops you mentioned in Brooklyn.

Fulton Mall is a street full of discounted, often junky clothing and sneakers (though there are some deals), there's a Macy's there which is awesome because it's not crowded (if you don't mind the hip hop music they play there instead of the typical dept. store music). But the gems of Fulton Mall are the Dime Savings Bank (go inside - the architectural detail is like something out of Italy) and Junior's restaurant (known for its cheesecake, but it has the BEST black & whites in the city IMO...and fantastic sandwiches).

The "antique furniture district" - I can only assume they mean Atlantic Avenue. Yeah, there's some nice things there, though I don't know enough about it to judge.

"Adam St" - I guess you mean "Adams St"? It's a long street that runs through Downtown Brooklyn. I'm not sure what the interest is here, except this is where most of the taller buildings in Brooklyn are located, some of them pretty. Adams St. also runs through my neighborhood (DUMBO) and ends at the anchorage to the Manhattan Bridge, a very cool sight.

None of these stops are remotely near Coney Island, and not really that close to the promenade either (they might get you within 10-15 blocks). But if you go to Grimaldis Pizza you can just walk up the hill and you'll reach it after about 2 blocks.

Zizz, everyone's given you great info. I had started a LOOONG post to you & my computer died so it all got erased
so here's a shortened version argh!

Blue Smoke is NOT near Macy's (it's on the other side of town) Fifth Ave is the demarcation between east & west side. Macy's=west Blue Smoke=East

Places to eat near Macy's- Tir na nOg (Irish style pub). Gray's Papaya has a location at 8th & 37th. Go to this one & save GV for something cuter. Gray's is a "dumpy" place where you stand or sit on a stool but their hot dogs are good.

The whole issue of the all loops tour vs just downtown is a hard one for you because of the baby (& because I've never been on one of these things so I don't know how good the commentary is & how often buses run so if you get off-how long will you have to wait for another one). Most people just like to do the downtown loop because midtown & uptown are pretty simple to naviagte on your own. (Downtown the streets are not all in a grid pattern & there are lots of "name" sts. vs numbers) Since I don't see you doing the subway much with the baby (altho it can be done) whatever you decide, DO CONCENTRATE downtown via the tour bus (ie include your stop in the financial district from the bus rather than making a separate trip as you indicate).

Another option to look into is the new water taxi. I think the website is nywatertaxi.com. It has 6-8 stops one of which is near your hotel. You could use it to get downtown, the Brooklyn bridge, South St Seaport etc.

I posted a website for a good self walking tour of GV for someone else but the text search is not working here (for me). In the same string, someone gave you the website for the tour bus map. Maybe you can find it yourself.

Soho & Tribeca were both factory/warehouse areas that were gentrified originally by artists looking for cheap, large space to live/work. The artists & low rents attracted funky, creative businesses. But all the success brought tourists/weekend visitors. So rents skyrocketed & chains like Gap & Banana Republic opened. Soho still has some interesting art galleries & the area feels different from midtown because there are many fewer hi-rise buildings.

I wouldn't do the Brooklyn loop on the bus but I would go to Brooklyn Heights which is the area just off the Brooklyn Bridge. Defintely go to the Promenade for great skyline views, a kids playground & a nice stroll.

I don't think Virgil's will free up during the performances. I've been there on a Sat evening and it was packed from 6-9ish. Most people in/around Times Sq. are not seeing a show on any given night and Virgil's isn't really a theatre crowd.

Zizz, while Virgil's might be crowded all night, a lot of the other theater area rest. are much less busy between 8-10 during theater.

As to souvenirs for teachers/friends, I have never understood the "deal" with black & whites-or bringing home food for that matter. It can break, go bad, dry out. You have to carry it on. Customs may have a problem. You eat it, it's gone. I suggest something not edible-a replica of the statue of liberty, a t shirt, something from Canal street, a calendar from NYC for 2004 are a few ideas. The calendar would be a year long reminder & would be eductaional for the class too.

Wow, I go to sleep and wake up with a lot of helpful info. Thanks everyone.

I just looked up the water taxi and searched this forum. The closest stop is W 44th/Intrepid/Circle Line - is this walkable (with a toddler who likes to be carried!) from Times Square?

Mclaurie, thanks for the Blue Smoke info. Don't know why I put that there. I guess with a continually-growing-now-a-100page-itinerary (covering Anaheim - I had no idea that Disneyland needed so much planning!, LA and NY), I am now getting confused. I have a Manhattan map. I guess Blue Smoke should be close to the Flatiron Bldg stop right? We are not going to all the restaurants I've mentioned. I've listed famous ones per stop so that we have choices wherever we end up during mealtimes. But I really do want to eat in Times Square on our first night. With those Times Square eateries I've mentioned, what time should we go there to avoid long lines? I really do want BBQ ribs but if there is no hope -which should be "least crowded"? Are we going to end up in Applebee's or would that be crowded too?

Where can I get a detailed Brooklyn map on the web? I searched the forum and found out that the water taxi stops right by the Brooklyn Ice Cream factory which is a short walk away from Grimaldi's so I figured we'll do this on our last day and go to the Promenade at night.

Mclaurie, I've separated the financial district from the double decker bus tour because we plan to get the NY Pass deal with the tour and well, there are no freebies in Wall Street contained in the NY Pass.

Finally, I don't think we'll try doing the subways since I've read that there are so many steps. I'm open to taking the buses outside of the double decker bus but I've read how crowded these are. Or would the double decker bus be just as crowded as well?

Thanks again all!

Everyone gave you great ideas already, sso I can't add too much more to it. However, I can tell you the buses, although containing less steps may be more inconvenient time wise. I believe there is only one bus that goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan which I think is the 51. Otherwise you can possibly take a cab for relatively cheap depending on the time of day.

Also for Tavern On The Green, as itis a tourist trap that should be seen, previous posters reflect mediocre food there.

The Empire State Building is located 2 blocks from Macy's and the visitor's entrance is on 5th Ave. between 33rd and 34th Streets. You will have to go downstairs first I believe to get passes for the observation deck. Do prepare to wait on line to be searched.

As for the Statue of Liberty, they are not allowing anyone inside it after 9/11. If you are just going for the view, then you can take the Staten Island Ferry for free from near Battery Park. If you are going for the history aspect and tour, then take the Ellis Island ferry.

When you get to Katz' Deli, be sure to have their pastrami sandwich on rye with mustard!!

Try these for Brooklyn map

www.citimaps.com/brooklyn.html
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/mapsbrooklyn/

The Flatiron building is at 23 st where 5th ave & B'Way cross (Broadway runs diagonally north to south so uptown it's on the west side but it crosses 5th ave & becomes the east side.) Blue Smoke is at 27th betw Lexington & Park-walkable 6-7 blocks.

For first night dining try Joe Allen's at 8pm. See if your hotel will make a reservation. Ruby Foo's is a big place so that's another option at 8 PM. Try Virgil's on a Mon. night when many theaters are dark.

As to walking to the water taxi stop-Times Square is a place (42 st & Broadway) and an area -roughly 42-48th. I can't remember where exactly you're staying. It's a long walk from Broadway to the Hudson river where the boats leave-5 very long blocks. You could take a crosstown bus on 42nd st or a cab.

Don't know about crowds on tour bus. On regular buses, the first front seats are "saved" for seniors/disabled. Often people will give them up for people with kids/prams.

Don't understand your response on the Financial district. Just because you're on the tour bus doesn't mean you can't see things not included in the price. My point was, you're already there. Why make a second trip?

I wouldn't bother with Atlantic Ave., Brooklyn furniture shopping. Last I was there it's mostly large pieces you're unlikey to want to ship to Oz

zizz,

"The closest stop is W 44th/Intrepid/Circle Line - is this walkable (with a toddler who likes to be carried!) from Times Square? "

I hope you are bringing or obtaining use of a stroller/pram for your toddler while you are in NYC. It will make your touring so much easier. I've used strollers with kid of 4 and 5 years of age because I knew they also liked to be carried. A lightwieght folding stroller would be perfect.

As far as subway steps go, what do you consider "so many steps?" Many subway stations have one set of stairs (10-14 steps) from street level down to track level. Larger stations have two sets of steps, street level to station level (10-14 steps), and then station level to track level (another 10-14 steps). There is the occasional station that might have more steps.

At some times of day and over longer distances, the subway will be the fastest, most efficient , not to mention cheapest way to travel. (Your toddler travels free I believe.) And I think your toddler will love the adventure of the subway. Give it a try.

lightweight! i before e. . .

Having taken a toddler to NY, I ditto the stroller comment. I also am hoping you plan to pare down your itinerary. Unless you are just driving by most places, I don't see how you can fit it all in. For example, the trip to Ellis Island is at least a 3 hour adventure. The Rockefeller tour is an hour (and you are thinking about trading off). You have lots of shopping on the list, too. That could consume the entire trip if you let it! What you have listed for Day 3 plus the Met and playing in Central Park could consume that day. I know you are coming from far away - - but I suggest you cut the list in half and then assume you won't get it all in.

Thanks again all for your helpful comments.

Don't worry, we will be travelling with a stroller - naturally! My problem is even with one, she sometimes would rather be carried and I can't imagine walking up and down 10-14 steps of stairs with her in my arms. And no, we will not try to visit all those places. I have just listed them as possible places to see while we are at each stop. I've learned to be flexible with a toddler in tow. But I do think that as long as we promise her a stop at the toy store afterwards, she'll be fine.

missjana, I have read all the posts about Tavern on the Green being a tourist trap. However, it is our anniv that day and we wanted to do something special. A previous poster said it aptly "you've got to do it (TOG) at least once". Besides the prix fixe dinner is good value - USD45 and for add'l USD8 I can have the prime rib. My problem though is that the menu/price is until the 19th of Nov. only - before my anniversary. Any ideas on what the holiday prices have been like in the past?

Speaking of anniversaries, we need to visit a church - which would be the best - St. John's? St Patrick's?

mclaurie, the new york pass will be valid for 2 days along with the all loops tour. The pass offers free admission to various areas - rockefeller, nbc, empire state, statue of liberty tour etc...So I would rather spend those 2 days on the double decker bus making the most out of the new york pass by visiting those places where I will get the free admission. Come to think of it, I wonder if the pass would be worth it considering that most tours do not allow children below 6. Most likely, I can use it only for Empire State and Ellis Island, Wax Museum and Circle Line Sightseeing Cruise...

Speaking of the circle line cruise, would this be safe? Given the latest sad event involving the staten island ferry, I think I'm chickening out.

Zizz-
You have a greater chance of dying from food poisoning at Ellen's Stardust, getting crushed by the mobs at FAO or getting hit by the Grayline bus than you do of getting hurt on the Circle Line. Don't fall victim to the media hype! This type of accident VERY rarely happens.