Friends of mine without a web connection are planning a trip in October.

They have two options for a tour. They will be starting in the Bay area.
One is to leave San Francisco spend 2 nights in Seattle, one in Port Townsend, 2 in Victoria, and one in Vancouver. This would be the middle of three weeks based in palo Alto.

The other is to go to Las Vagas (one night), 2 in the Grand Canyon, one in Mojaca (sp) and 3 in Moab, before returning to Las Vegas and back to Palo Alto.

Which would you choose and why?

That all depends. Do your friends live in the UK? Are they the type to prefer outdoor activities vs city nightlife? If so, I would suggest the desert tour. October is one of the best times to visit the desert, especially Moab (one of my VERY favorite desert towns!). There are so many fun outdoor activities to do in those desert places -- rafting, hiking, mulerides into the canyon, jeep tours, etc. If they are into hiking, tell them to do the "Fiery Furnace" tour in Arches National Park in Moab. It is alot of fun and you see some of the most incredible rock formations and hidden waterfalls (unless there's been a drought there . . .) The desert is also very different from what they would see in the UK -- incredible red and multicolored rock formations that will take your breath away. Except for Vegas though, the nightlife is pretty sparse.

On the other hand, if they are into city living and nightlife, send them to the Northwest. Seattle, Victoria and Vancouver all have great nightlife, restaurants, theaters, etc. (can't speak for Port Townsend, never been there) There's also little excursions you can take to see some beautiful forested areas up there too and there's a wonderful huge park in Vancouver (the name escapes me at the moment, but it fronts the water) where you can hike, or rent bicyles and ride all over. It does rain alot though, but that's why it's so green up there (sorta like the UK . . .)

Hope they have fun -- the SF Bay area is wonderful too and should be pretty nice here in October.

While the weather in the northwest (southwest in Canada) usually isn't too bad in October, this year so far has been very wet and chilly. I would opt to go south because, well, I love the desert, and the Grand Canyon is pretty spectacular. Victoria is described as "a little bit of England" so it might be more interesting for your friends if they're from Britain to see something quite different from home.

I would opt for the desert. The Northwest is great but the weather can be pretty nasty in October. On the other hand October is usually a pretty good month weatherwise for the desert areas. I disagree with the previous poster about nightlife. The greatest place in the world for night life is Las Vegas. Also San Francisco is great.

It is really hard to advise which area is the best other than the climate factor, It all depends on what your preferences are. I am very familiar with the Northwest having lived in Victoria, Vancouver, Portland and Seattle. I also lived in Phoenix and have lived in California for many many years. I would not want to say that one area is the best withour knowing what you were looking for, Both areas have a lot to offer.

Now having said all of that. I think that your plans are far too ambitious. You are cramming too much into a short period of time. First of all, you should allow ample time to see San Francisco and the surrounding areas. One night in Las Vegas is hardly enough to see anything. We are very frequent visitors to Las Vegas and have been for years. There are still things that we haven't seen yet.

I do agree with SFSally about Las Vegas being great for nightlife -- that's probably it's major draw as a destination! The only reason I didn't recommend the desert trip if they were looking for nightlife is because they are only planning on spending one night out of the whole week there, whereas the Northwest trip is jampacked with "nightlife"-type cities. And SFSally is also right about San Francisco being fantastic for nightlife. I hope your friends have enough time to really explore the bay area while they are here, as we have so much to offer!

October in Seattle is questionable, especially this year. Victoria is great, but slow-paced like Palo Alto (oh no, not another HP seminar). And again, October might be a bit late; you absolutely won't know until you get there.

Why would you want to spend three days in Moab and only one night in Vegas? When you say "tour" do you mean planned thru a company, or is it a do-it-yourself-er? You could combine both by going to eastern Washington, plenty of gambling on the reservations.

Thank you for your very high quality postings.

They are family of four (Maw, Paw, and two kids under 5) They will be staying with friends at Palo Alto ( and yes, there is an HP connection) and spent 3 weeks there last year, so the idea is to have broader horizons this time.

They're outdoorsy, without being fanatic about it, and they're also more city people during the day- shops and restaurants and things, rather than nightlife.

They will be hiring a car, and I think at least one hopes to do a bit of cycling.

Also America is so different everything is interesting.

More info please.... Thanks agin

Okay, that changes things slightly. I would still do the desert tour (because the weather is nicer and the scenery is fantastic and so different from what they would see in the UK). However, as much as I adore Moab (and I do, believe me), I would skip it on this trip and have them do it another time -- perhaps flying into Salt Lake City and renting a car. It is such a long drive to get there (albeit a pretty one), especially with small children, that they would be better off sticking to things close to the Nevada/Arizona/Utah border. Las Vegas has lots of stuff now for kids to do during the day, since they have been trying to be more kid-friendly, as well as restaurants and shopping for the adults (not to mention gambling if they so choose); so spend at least 2 or 3 days there. If they want to see and hike incredible red-rock formations, and they don't want the punishing drive, send them to Valley of Fire State Park in Nevada for the day. It's only about an hour or so east of Las Vegas (near Hoover Dam area) and it's spectacular. Lots of places to hike (both easy and expert) and it's very accessable by car. I can't say enough good things about it. If they go there, have them start at the visitor center and museum. They'll learn alot about the park and it's wildlife and there are wonderful displays that the kids might enjoy too. I don't remember there being any food service in the park (we usually camp there) so they should either plan to bring a picnic lunch (lots of places to picnic) or go into the nearby town of Overton for lunch. If they really want to do Utah have them do Zion or Bryce Canyon -- but not as a day trip (too much to see in one day and too long a drive with small children as a day trip). They should, of course spend some time at the Grand Canyon -- 2 nights is probably enough unless they are planning to hike all the way down into it (not likely with small children). Sorry I can't be more help on places to stay, but we usually camp when we are in the desert and only do Vegas as a stopping point for lunch and a little gambling. Hope this is helpful to you.

P.S. Which HP event are they attending and which one do they work for? Just being nosy . . . my husband works at the HP site in Palo Alto on Page Mill.

Sheila,
Can't let the Northwest go down without something of a fight. Seattle/Vancouver et al or desert? Why not both? About 2 hours drive from Seattle over the Cascades and your friends can be in red-rock, sagebrush, old west, high desert country - Indian reservations, cowboys, the works. Also wine tasting and autumn color (that's colour) viewing, back in Seattle for a sophisticated evening if they like. The weather in the NW in October can be wonderful, too.

By the way, one quick answer to D.B.'s question about why someone would want to spend 3 days in Moab and only one in Las Vegas. If you are more into outdoorsy and less into nightlife or gambling, it makes perfect sense. There is so much to see and do there that the 4 nights we spent there still weren't enough to see everything we wanted to see. There's Arches National Park, Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point State Park, various scenic drives -- including one up into a mountainy area just outside town (can't remember the name of the mountain though, at the moment) where we had a snowball fight up there while Moab was entrenched in 100 degree heat! There's rafting down the river too, all sorts of fun things. (just putting in my 2 cents worth here . . . )

Thanks Karen -- i was just putting in my $.24 worth of sarcasm.

John -- the weather CAN be wonderful in October, but this year it is one solid sheet of rain from January thru December, so far, (Jeez -- here it is July, and my furnace is running, although it typically rains 4th of July weekend). But, as we both have said, Eastern WA might be okay. They could drive up to Seattle for a visit and, if the weather is nice, drive to Victoria. Or, head out east to (possibly) warmer climes.

Sheila -- How about an obvious question, have they already tried Tahoe and/or Yosemite? As you probably know, Tahoe has plenty of the great outdoors as well as shopping, gambling, and night-life. Yosemite is just the great outdoors. (Although, the weather hasn't been too great down your way either.)

Thanks for the thought. I know they've been to Yosemite; I think not to Tahoe. Is it not very touristy?

I really don't know what the word touristy means, any vacation spot or popular place will have its share of tourists. And, they are tourists.

Here's another possibilty:

http://www.shastavacations.com/options.html

Dear D.B.
Your posts are regarding the weather in Seattle are scaring me. My husband and I have planned a 9-day trip to Seattle/Port Townsend/Victoria/Orcas Island/Vancouver and we're leaving in 2 weeks from Ohio. It sounds like the weather has been less than ideal. Should we pack extra sweatshirts and rain gear?? Diane

Diane (& Sheila too),
DB is right, it has been a very rainy spring in the northwest, but this week it has turned nice and forecast for the next week or two (at least) is for above-average temperatures and sun, so I would not alter travel plans if I were you. (A bonus has been record snowpacks in the mountains so no water shortage in late summer is likely.
The weather in October can be questionable anywhere - the west coast is subject to the same El Nino/La Nina conditions whether you're at Tahoe, Yosemite, or farther east like the Rockies.
I guess I would say that if you're in Moab or Tahoe City and the weather turns crummy your options are significantly fewer than if you're in Seattle or Vancouver.

It was raining up 'till Sunday, then Monday was real nice, then it rained for two days and today it is warm again. I guess we are inching toward summer (might get there by August). It is not very cold, but bring some kind on Nylon jacket or windbreaker that you can wear in the rain. If you are taking a cruise, you might want a sweater if the weather goes overcast.

OK--thanks for the NW weather tips! This our first trip to the Seattle area--can't wait! Diane