Patrick

Just thought I'd pass on a story from two good friends who just returned from a great weekend in NYC. Since I am one of the people who still says that Tavern on the Green may be touristy, but still a fun place to go, especially at the holidays, thought I should tell this story.
My friends, two ladies had tickets to The Producers at 3 on Sunday. They went (having made reservations) for brunch at Tavern on the Green. After consulting with several people and confirming with the restaurant that they would be able to get a taxi right there, they decided that they should leave no later than 2 to make the show in plenty of time, but to be safe planned to leave more like 1:45. Everything was fine, nice brunch, but very crowded and very slow service, so by the time they got their check it was very close to 2. They went to retrieve their coats from the coat check. There was a horrendous line of people both trying to check and claim their coats. Apparently a couple of huge parties had let out and tons of people were coming in. They stood in line for what seemed an eternity and the line didn't move. A few people went to the head of the line who seemed to know the coat check person and they managed to get theirs. A couple of hostesses brought coats to the head of the line to check for seated guests. The girls began to get nervous and went up front saying they had to get to the theatre. They were told to wait their turn. It was now 2:20, they had been standing in line a full 20 minutes, and they were getting panicky. There were still a couple of dozen people in front of them. They decided to just leave and retrieve their coats later so they went to the door. Oops, no taxis, "one will be here shortly". Fortunately yes, within 10 minutes one came and they were on their way. Traffic was pretty heavy, the taxi driver drove like a madman and they arrived at the theatre with less than 5 minutes to spare. Got seated just as the overture started. They had to take another taxi up to the restaurant after the show and retrieve their coats.
I'm not sure what my point is here, except that:
A) You really need to allow for unplanned problems.
B) Tavern on the Green had the most disorganized coat check they had ever seen.
c) Even when a restaurant tells you "they always have taxis available", which were their exact words, don't trust them.

thereuare

Coat check was NOT disorganized, it just ran according to "who you know", which is how almost everything in NYC works.

Sam

Are you really posting something titled "Nightmare at Tavern on the Green" to complain about coat check!?!?! Come on now! Inconvenience, yes. Nightmare, no.

NewYorker

Patrick,I hope this is the worst nightmare YOU ever have to experience..and travel stories passed on are never reliable..

Patrick

The two friends who passed on this story are the two who travel annually with me for two to three weeks. I trust every word they said. I would think that nearly missing The Producers, which is the total reason they went to New York for the weekend -- when they were able to get tickets a couple of months ago they planned the trip for it-- would in fact be a nightmare. And I also think that having to take a taxi back to the restaurant then back to their hotel again just to retrieve their coats hours later would certainly qualify as a major inconvenience.
Sorry if some of you think this sounds like fun, or no big deal, but it was a very big deal to them. Yes, I have suffered worse problems than this in traveling, but that doesn't minimize the problem they had. Maybe your nightmares are worse than mine.

xxxxx

I find it touching that they consider their mishaps at brunch a nightmare.
It does put everything that can go wrong in a day in perspective. I wish I could say that the worst nightmarish thing that has happened to me was that the coat check line was long and I almost missed a play, but didn't.
I am sincere.

cindy

Okay, so people are objecting to the word "nightmare" - nevertheless,it seems to me that Patrick makes some good points. You have to expect the unexpected, and when you need to get to the theatre from somewhere that's not within walking distance, it's best to allow a lot more time than you might think. I'm not sure why people are getting so irritated about this - I would consider it very useful information.

AnotherNewYorker

Cindy-most people already know that they have to allow time for things to go wrong when keeping to a schedue..so this is useful to whom? It is irritating only if you live in a city where things happen that really do qualify for "nightmare" status and two ladies have to take a cab twice refer to this as a nightmare...travelers deal with things like this all the time, at least here people spoke the same language,they got their coats eventually and no one got hurt...Patrick should not get too defensive about this,although he felt he had to post it, it isn't even his story...and there are ways of dealing with coat check lines when one must meet a plane,has reservations somewhere else, besides suffer and whine later.

Kay

OK, so say that Pat simply posted a couple lines stating:
Just thought I'd remind people that when you're in a city you're not familiar with, if you have a schedule to keep, always leave extra time for the unexpected. I had two friends who almost missed a big theater date because they didn't expect to get bogged down at their restaurant.

Would that be so inappropriate?
That's essentially what he said.

No, it didn't qualify as a nightmare. He was simply offering a reminder.

Patrick

OK, Another New Yorker, let's turn this post into something useful like you suggest. You say there "are ways of dealing with coat check lines". As a New Yorker please tell what those ways are. Must you push others out of the way and scream at the top of your lungs? Call the police? Climb over the counter and get your own coats? They went to the front of the line and said they had to get somewhere and they were sharply told to wait their turn. Please tell us what they should have done for future reference. You make a good point. They could have had a plane to catch? What would they have done then, since they couldn't go back to retrieve their coats?
Again, I apologize for the use of the word "nightmare", but it just didn't seem like "inconvenience at Tavern on the Green" sounded like a logical post, but guess that would have made more sense. When people say we already know to allow extra time, apparently not. They had asked both at Tavern of the Green when they called for reservations and asked the concierge at the hotel how much time they should allow, and both said if they left by 2 PM it would allow for plenty of time for the 3 PM curtain, but obviously both the restaurant and the concierge were wrong. If people like that don't know, then how is the average traveler to New York supposed to know??
Incidentally, these same two had a problem after the Radio City show on Saturday, they were to catch a taxi and meet friends at Craft for dinner. They tried for over an hour to get a taxi with no luck, also going to a near by hotel (I think The Palace) but the line was even longer. They eventually hired one of those "rickshaw" guys who took them all the way to Craft. They were over an hour late and had called Craft on the cell phone to let their friends know. I guess again the lesson here is, it is very hard to make plans in New York when the plans include getting a taxi. Please note, I'm not calling this situation a nightmare!!

thereuare

What can be learned from this post is that the subway is often the quickest form of transportation.

John G

Patrick is a font of useful information. You should heed his advice. I personally feel that this thread was directed to people who are visiting NYC, and not for Manhattanites. People who don't live in large cities do find things like hailing a cab and pushy people at coat checks daunting. As for the use of the word "nightmare," I think this would be a nightmare for someone who wasn't used to so much drama just going to see Nathan Lane. So there you have it.

ellenB

I agree, as a regular visitor to New York I find trying to get a cab a nightmare. We have learned to stay at a hotel near the theatres, because one night we tried for well over an hour to get a cab back to our hotel when we stayed much further away. Unless you are willing to push other people out of the way it just seems hopeless. That may work for some New Yorkers but not for my husband and I. And don't say to go to a hotel. We stood at the Marquis one night in line for nearly an hour trying to get a taxi because we were told it would be easier to get one there. I'm amused when people here say to go somewhere after the theatre for late dinner that includes a cab ride. It just seems impossible to make plans that involve travel by cab from midtown Manhattan. I would also like to know the answer to the question "what should the two ladies have done about the coat check problem"? The New Yorker who posted seemed to indicate there was something they could have done. What was it?

NY

I would have walked to the front of the line and asked for my coat and said I cannot wait-I have to be at the theater at such and such a time...or get the maitre de and tell him the problem and let him get my coat...you see, these people work for you-you are the customer, I am not afraid of waiters,coat check people or maitre de's...OR I would have kept my coat with me thinking I could just pay and get up and walk out, which is something I often do.
When flagging a taxi in NY, most times a person steps off the curb and sticks their arm into the air when they see the empty taxi coming, taxis will slam on brakes in the middle of traffic for a fare, so it is never really hard, unless they are all full...then you have to take a walk,bus or train.

Hal

I think the best advice for visitors who have reservations/tickets and want to eat first, find a restaurant within walking distance of the theatre.

Patrick

I guess some of us were not born to be New Yorkers. The girls did go to the front of the line and said they had to get to the theatre, just as you suggest, NY. They were told in rather unfriendly terms to wait their term. I guess if they were true New Yorkers they could have screamed, thrown tantrums, threatened, or somehow made a major scene and succeeded in getting their coats, but being rather conservative, they just weren't used to doing that. Incidentally, they tried to go to the table with their coats and they were told that due to the crowd, all coats had to be checked. I guess again they could have threatened and made a scene, but instead they did as they were told they had to do. Apparently that is not the thing for visitors to do.

Regarding the stepping off the curb to hail a taxi. Yes I know that, and at 6' and nearly 200 pounds I have been all but knocked down by a locals pushing me out of the way to "steal" the first taxi not full after waiting 20 or more minutes. Often these people seem to come out of nowhere. I guess some of us were simply not born to get into that kind of fray. I agree about dining. I always eat after the theatre and nearby, so that I don't have a problem about making the curtain and don't have to worry about transportation to a restaurant. Last May four us attended Follies and were going to dinner about 10 blocks north. The one lady in our party had a bad ankle problem and really wanted a taxi. We went to 6th thinking it would be easier to get a taxi and they were headed in the right direction. We saw hundreds, perhaps thousands of taxis all full. Once in a while one would pull over and would be attacked by several people all fighting over it. I saw people literally pushing and shoving at each other and screaming obscenities saying they were first. We slowly made our way up to the restaurant and never were able to get a taxi. If only I could be assertive enough to yell, scream, push, and shove, I guess we would have been able to ride in a taxi instead of walking, but it just isn't in me.

NewYorker

Maybe you are right Patrick,some people just aren't born to be New Yorkers..if standing in line for a coat and standing in the street hailing a cab are so difficult..some of us are capable,some us obviously aren't.I am not 6' and 200 lbs-more like 5'4 and 120 lbs-I have never had to knock anyone over for a taxi nor have I been knocked over, I have never had to stand in a room or the street and shout and scream.I think this is gross exaggeration on your part..trying to make your friends plight more dramatic.I was on Columbus Avenue tonight, people were walking around, smiling,walking their dogs, going in and out of restaurants..I did not see one pushing and shoving fight, taxis actually stopped at the curb for people when they hailed them...no one mugged anyone getting in or out of a taxi...it was quite civil..just like any other night in NY...of course,this is just the view of a New Yorker, not an out- of -towner,who seems to see things through strangely colored glasses.

xxx

My what a quiet board today! To all our Christian friends, Merry Christmas!

I am a frequent poster here, but will remain anonymous today as I may be revealing a side of myself I hate to admit.

As a native Californian, formerly a frequent visitor to New York and a permanent resident here for the past ten years, it has taken me a while to become the person I am now. When I moved here I encountered the problems that Patrick describes. I was the one at the coat check line who would stand idly by as pushy locals demanded their coats ahead of me, or who waited endlessly for my turn at the deli counter at the local market (before those wonderful number systems) as the more aggressive ones pushed their way ahead of me. But I have learned that to survive in New York, one does have to become much more aggressive.

To answer you, Patrick, on what your friends should have done the answer is simple. Yes, they should have made a scene. When they were told to wait their turn, they should have become loud, demanded to see the manager, gone to get the matre'd, and continued their demands until the coat check girl gave in to get rid of them. That is simply how it works in New York. As you, yourself, mention that is apparently what others were doing and it was working for them. I have found myself doing that quite often actually. It is part of survival here, whether at the dry cleaners, the market, a sales counter, or even the coat check.

New Yorker, you say you have never had to shout or scream, but whether you realize it or not, I'm sure that like me you have learned to speak with a lot more authority and at a much louder volume than the average midwesterner visiting New York. You just don't realize it. Why do you think New Yorkers have that reputation for being loud and abrasive? Because we are (and yes, I now consider myself a New Yorker who is far more loud and abrasive than I ever dreamed I could be or would ever want to admit).

Regarding hailing a taxi, yes, New Yorker you are right. It is often very easy. On the upper west side where I live, I am often surprised when someone else will stand aside and say "no, you were here first." This is a neighborhood where unexpected friendliness is often exhibited. But Patrick is talking about after the theatre in midtown. That is a world unto itself. Any New Yorker who says he has never seen people shouting, pushing, or nearly getting into physical brawls has probably never been near Times Square between 10:00 and 11:00 on a theatre night. Like a huge sale at a departments store, otherwise normal people become animals as the demand for taxis far exceeds the supply. I too have seen people literally push each other to the ground trying to get one of the very few taxis available as everyone tries to make the mad dash out that area when all the theatres let out. This is one custom I've been unable to master. Give me a few more years and maybe I will be pushy enough to get a taxi midtown after theatre. Although normally I use taxis in New York, if I am caught midtown at that "magic" hour, I immediately head for the subway.

I love New York. Despite its bigness, there can be a wonderful neighborhood feel and as I mentioned a surprising friendliness, but sadly loudness and aggressiveness is necessary here if you do not want to be walked over. That is simply the way it is.

NewYorker

Funny-I came to New York from California! and had lived in the South before that, I was the quiet meek one,that smiled and let people in front of me in lines, gave way to cars trying to squeeze in.Then someone told me, don't be so friendly, be more aggresive..I said I will continue to be the way I am...not a Californian or a New Yorker,just Me~so here it is 30 years later, am I still me or am I a New Yorker? Still don't yell at people,never push and shove, smile and wave when people let me in front of them in traffic..and you know what? When I want something, I still get it, without yelling, but I do stand up for myself, if I am in line and someone pushes in front, I say quietly-I was here first..you may get behind me...I have had to deal with lines in London,Paris,New York, most cities and little towns have a line somewhere, you stand there and wait your turn...if the place is crowded,reason will tell you the line will be long...I just think that Patricks friends are extremely naive or really shouldnt be out alone, if these minor problems constitute a nightmare for them....even California has some pretty bad traffic and crowds these days, not so very different from NY (although the NY I have read on these posts is mostly a cliche NY...rude,noisy,etc...that could be describing most US cities these days..) So, we all have our version of life in the Big City-this is mine,Happy Holidays.

Jackie

Thank you for so eloquently stating what I suspected was the truth all along, "xxx".
It's been a number of years since I lived on the east coast, but I still clearly recall the vivid difference between New Yorkers in particular and those from the midwest and southwest (the other places I've lived).
"New Yorker" has tunnel vision. No capacity to stand outside himself to be objective. Or else no experience living anywhere else.

I like New York a lot as a weekend getaway. It's a great city.
But one thing that always irritates me is that people who have always lived there seem completely unable to accept the fact that there are better places to live (overall quality of life) depending on your priorities.
If you want a nice yard, safe neighborhood, friendly neighbors, low stress living including easy commute and friendly people, wrapped up in a cost efficient package, there are many wonderful areas in the USA (and abroad).

I'm glad the stereotypical New Yorker loves NYC. Many, however, would be quite surprised at how different life can be (in a favorable way) elsewhere.