AAFrequentFlyer

As of Sep 1, Per Se, a very popular New York eatery will discontinue the tipping policy.

The restaurant will add automatic 20% service charge to the bill.

Is this a clever marketing ploy? after all, 20% is still 20% regardless of what you call it.

Restaurants such as Per Se won't have a problem with this new policy as they are booked for months ahead, but do you think this would work with your neighborhood places?

GoTravel

Since I have yet to make it to Per Se, could you please explain the prior tipping policy?

20% is the minimum of what I'd pay in a top end restaurant.

Patrick

I can't imagine going to a place like Per Se and not tipping 20%, so it makes little difference. The same is true of high end places in my town (although we admittedly don't have a Per Se).
I suspect that most people who would complain are those who don't like to tip anyway and look for excuses to leave a smaller tip.
I strongly suspect that at any restaurant that imposed such a policy if you had really BAD service, a quick talk with the manager would get them to remove the charge, or certainly lessen it -- so I wouldn't fall for the excuse that it makes you pay for bad service.
The one bad part is that some feel it is not necessary to tip a full percentage on very expensive wines.
Does a $700 bottle of wine deserve a $140 tip to serve it, while a $100 bottle of wine gets $20? And I do know that some otherwise very good tippers, do cut back a little on the splurges for expensive wine -- I personally see nothing wrong with that. This policy would prevent that as I'm assuming the 20% would be on the entire bill.

As in some of the related discussions here yesterday, foreign travelers are part of this scenario. Here in Naples, some restaurants have been adding an automatic tip to foreign guests who otherwise would probably leave nothing -- pretending not to know what the custom is -- even though many of them own property here and cetainly DO know the local custom. That seems like "racial or geographical" profiling. This new policy would end that.

CAPH52

Not sure I follow what you mean by "a clever marketing ploy".

I'd hate to see this become a trend. Service has to be pretty bad before I'll tip under 15%. But I don't want to lose control of the option to tip less. And I certainly don't want to be forced to tip 20% for service I've found just barely adequate.

I understand, and have no trouble with, restaurants tacking on a service fee for large parties. But, other than that, I feel a tip should be earned, not automatically given.

And I'd probably be less likely to tip more than 20% if I felt the restaurant had already taken control, made the decision for me.

Gekko

Per Se will automatically add 20% to every bill, regardless of the customers' wishes.

It's a major problem, and as I mentioned in another thread on tipping, a colleague of mine has already cancelled a reservation at the overrated (in my opinion) Per Se because he refuses to pay a mandatory 20% gratuity.

It's obvious to everyone except lazy Europeans, isn't it?? Servers who are guaranteed 20% need not provide exemplary service. They need not "earn" their money.

I waited tables in college; I know how it works. When we had large parties with fixed gratutities, we saw no need to hustle to earn a larger tip.

I hope Per Se's little experiment fails miserably.

AAFrequentFlyer

Per Se got about 1/2 hour exposure just because of this issue with it's name plastered all over the screen on CNN this morning. Also, I believe the story is on the news wire services as well. That's what I meant when I asked if this is just a clever marketing ploy? (besides, it's getting more free advertising right here )

It really doesn't change anything, does it? As I stated earlier, 20% is still 20%, regardless of what you call it.

I'm a very generous tipper, so 20-25% is the norm for me. I just don't see what the hoopla is all about.

The other question still stands. Per Se is a very high class place that takes extreme measures to hire only the best. The service people will always do their best or they will be gone, but would this work in the neighborhood places?

jorr

Any restaurant with manditory automatic tipping will end up with lousy service. Why would a waiter go the extra mile for his customer when he knows he gets a 20% tip no matter what he does. Why not just throw cold food on the table and toss the bill at them? Kind of like they do it in Russia from what I've heard.

BAD idea. Watch the service at this restaurant decline. In answer to AA's question, where I live the restaurant would go under by the end of the month.

GoTravel

Why was the 20% imposed?

Where people undertipping? Less than 15%? Less than 10%?

jorr

BTW, its arrogant. No restaurant is that great.

hdm

Gosh, I'm so naive. When I read your header I thought that maybe a restaurant had finally decided to pay their wait staff a living wage.

mm

jorr you got it right.

mm

ncgrrl

I agree with hdm. Pay you staff a fair wage.

j_999_9

I read the whole NY Times piece on this, and here's what I got out of it:
-- The restaurant isn't going to "tack on" the 20%. The service charge will be included in the price of the meal. So, for instance, if you see an entree for $35, the service charge is included in that (and anything else you order).
-- The custom is one you see in Europe sometimes, especially in France, where the price is listed as "compris service" or something like that.
-- Most people hate the idea.
-- The owner says he's doing it because he has a highly trained staff that always provides top-notch service and doesn't need to me motivated by tips. That's what he said.

Patrick

So, ncgrrl and others. . . You're saying that they should just raise all their prices 20% and drop tipping or service charges all together? That money they pay their staff has to come from somewhere. So what's the difference if you pay $100 a person plus $20 per person service charge, or if you pay $120 per person for the meal and no service charge?

CAPH52

Many of you may disagree with what I'm about to say and that's fine. But I actually tip a higher percentage in less expensive, diner type restaurants than in more "high end" ones.

I understand that the waitstaff in a place like Per Se is highly trained. But I don't think they work any harder than a waitress in a diner. And 20% of the tab at Per Se is a hell of a lot more than 20% of the tab at a diner. A personable, efficient server at a diner deserves *at least* 20%.

LoriNY

I never liked the idea of restaurants adding a service charge to my bills. I want to tip what I want, I will reward good - great service, but if it is lousy, I want to reflect that as well. Service was included at the French Laundry (another Keller restaurant), and the service wasn't all that great!!!

AAFrequentFlyer

j_999_9,

thanks for providing the final piece to the puzzle. Obviously I missed that part. Now it makes sense. Factoring the service charge into the price of the dish does make a difference.

I would not have a problem with this at all, as long as the restaurant ups the wages of the service people appropriately and make sure the patrons know the policy.

I also believe that most people do take a great pride in their work and they don't need a $ bill in front of their faces to make them jump through the hoops. If this system was adopted by every restaurants the bad service people would eventually be gone. A factory worker does it everyday and s/he knows that is they don't perform up to the needed standards they will be fired. Why would it be any different in this situation?

ncgrrl

Patrick, it becomes a slippery slope. The waitstaff at most restaurants earn sub-minimum wage and make up the difference with tips. So I am paying their salary anyway. Also, tips are reported on tax forms. If someone doesn't earn the tips, but still has to report a certain amount (I'm not sure what the IRS wants as a tip minimum, but what if the waiter didn't earn that much?).

Then you have place where the staff does earn at least minimum wage (coffeeshop for example) but puts out a tip jar. Good for them.

And I think we often agree on tipping. I don't tip the person at the appliance store who shows off the dishwashers. I don't tip the Blockbuster staff member for movie recommendations.

Tell me the price, I'll pay it. Don't make it a guessing game.

Gekko

I read that Per Se's reason was to increase the compensation for its "young chefs." Apparently the restaurant is not capable of simply raising their salaries.

And I too experienced slow and inattentive service at French Laundry a few years back.

Vote with your wallets.

Judy24

What I find interesting is explanation that the extra 20% will be now simply be hidden in the cost of the food. That would be fine if the following happens:

1. The waitstaff actually sees any of this money.

2. The guests are informed in no uncertain terms that the gratuity has already been included.

Somehow, I have my doubts about #2. How will the credit card slip read? Will there no longer be a separate line for the tip?

I suspect that what will ultimately happen, if this trend spreads to the general restaurant population is that some people will continue to tip 15-20% on top of the bill either out of ignorance or guilt.