Margo

Husband and I are planning a driving trip for 2+ weeks at the end of Jan and first week in Feb. At present we are thinking of flying into El Paso. The first week will be spent driving into West Texas, (Fort Davis?), for the main reason to visit Big Bend National Park. Questions for this part of the trip are:

What to expect weatherwise in Big Bend at this time of year?

Best dayhike (no major hill climbing) in the Park.

How many days, 1 or 2, to hike, sight see and what not to miss in the park.

In the Fort Davis area--how many days to alot to the driving tour past the Mc Donald Observatory and other interests in the area. We will definitely take in the Star Party at the Observatory (it was cloudy last time I was there!!).

Other things to see and do in this part of Texas before we head to Carlsbad Caverns. After a night near the Caverns (where would you suggest staying?) we will head into south New Mexico.

Now here is where I could use some extra help. We have a week or so to spend in south New Mexico and south Arizona, specifically, Tucson and maybe Pheonix. Need suggestions of what not to miss though we have been to this area many years ago. Like historical things (ghost towns!) scenic drives, 2-3 mile hikes through interesting areas. Also good eating places along the way.

I will certainly appreciate any input for this trip. Margo

spirobulldog

I have been to Carlsbad twice. I could shoot myself for not spending at least a day in Guadalope Mountains. I suspect that it would be similar somewhat of Big Bend.

We enjoy the Wild Cave Tours at Carlsbad. The best one is probably Hall of White Giants. My second pick would be Spider Cave. The rest of them would certainly be worth doing. If you don't like tight places, this wouldn't be for you. They list it as strenuous, but I thought of it as moderate at the most. It is about 4 hours long, so perhaps that is their thinking. If you can hike 3 miles, you can certainly do this. If you are overweight this trip would not be for you as it is a tight sqeeze in a couple of spots.

You could hit Saquaro National Park in route . There is a ski resort not to far from Carlsbad,I am blank on the name, that I haven't been to. I think it is on an indian reservation mountain. I don't think it is a big resort.

WhereAreWe

Weather in Big Bend should be in the 60s with lows in the upper 30s. Add 5-10 degrees if you're along the river, and subtract 5-10 degrees in the mountains. Of course, those are all just averages and it could be warmer or colder.

Best dayhike with no major hill climbing is Santa Elena Canyon. You will have to cross a small creek and go up a ways to get into the canyon, but I wouldn't call it a major climb. 2nd best is the Lost Mine Trail which involves more uphill, but you can always turn around when you get tired and go back down.

I wouldn't consider spending less than 3 days in Big Bend. It's a huge park with a lot to see. I wrote up several posts on a different thread - I'll look for it and post a link rather than repeating everything here. When you read my other posts, just keep in mind the flooding cleanup will be mostly (if not completely) done by the time your trip comes around.

Fort Davis driving tour - I would guess a day is enough. Depends on what you all find along the route that grabs your interest.

Other things to see/do: Fort Davis National Historic Site is worth a few hours of your time. I think Fort Davis State Park has a lot of fans as well. Balmorrhea State Park has a huge spring-fed pool. Monahans Sandhills State Park is a bit out of your way but pretty cool if you hike out onto the sand hills.

I would agree you should visit Guadalupe Mountains National Park. With no major hill climbing in your itinerary, you could still visit McKittrick Canyon and the Frijole Ranch.

South New Mexico - visit White Sands National Monument for a half day or so.

Southern Arizona - Chiricahua National Monument is cool. There should be a hiker shuttle to the top of the trail system, and then you can choose from several different options to go back to the visitors center - mostly downhill and 4-9 miles depending on which route you take.

Also in the area is Fort Bowie National Historic Site. You have to drive on a dirt road and then hike in to the fort ruins. The trail is about 3 miles roundtrip and fairly level.

There are so many hikes around Tucson and Phoenix it's impossible to list them all. I would say drive through the west section of Saguaro National Park. There's also a loop drive in the east section of Saguaro, but it's pretty flat and not as interesting. Closer to Phoenix is a great scenic loop drive called the Apache Trail. Google it and you'll find lots of into. It goes past Lost Dutchman State Park, several lakes, Tonto National Monument and on the way back towards Phoenix you'll pass Boyce Thompson Arboretum which is definitely worth a visit if you don't want to do the full drive.

WhereAreWe

Here's the link to the other thread about Big Bend:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...1&tid=35160914

Margo

Thanks, whereweare, for the detailed information. I just booked three nights at Chisos Mountains Lodge (Casa Grande) for three nights. I also considered the resort at Lajitas which looked really interesting. Do you know anything about that facility?

Now I am looking for two nights in the Fort Davis area. Two choices: Hotel Limpia in town and Indian Lodge outside of town. Do you or other Fodorites recommend one or the other?

How about any recommendations for lodging in the Carlsbad Caverns/Guadalupe Mts area?

Now moving on from there, what stops to make between Carlsbad and Arizona for 1 or 2 nights. We could stop in Las Crucas. What is suggested to see there. Then on to Silver City or Lordsburg (ghost towns there!)

Lots of requests, I know, but all are appreciated.
Margo

hetismij

I would choose Silver City over Lordsburg any day. It is a lovely small town, and there are some interesting drives around the area.
have a look at www.silvercity.org.
If you get the chance try to go to Lake Valley Historic Township, nearby - the ultimate ghost town, with great guides - we spent hours talking to them when we stumbled on this place in May. It is run by the BLM and is free.
Also nearby is the City of Rocks which is a fun place for a picnic and a gentle stroll around.

WhereAreWe

I've never stayed at Lajitas and probably never will. I've heard it's a bit better now with new ownership, but I still have a problem with a resort in the desert that uses (wastes) so much water to irrigate their golf course. Just doesn't fit the area in my opinion. But that's just me, I've heard it's improved somewhat with the new owner, not that the lodging was terrible before.

The Indian Lodge consistently gets great reviews. I'm not sure how much of that is for the ambience and historical nature of it though. I don't know anything about Hotel Limpia. I don't have any recommendations for lodging elsewhere either, I generally sleep in a tent or the cheapest hotel I can find.

I kind of missed the 'ghost town/historical things' request in your first post. Not sure if you've run across references to the Terlingua Ghostown yet - it's a very small town about 5-10 outside of Big Bend NP's western entrance with some historical structures. Some of them have been restored and are used for present day business, others are just crumbling away.

Inside Big Bend are numerous ruins and historical areas. You'll want to spend a bit of time at Castolon Historic District (near Santa Elena Canyon) looking through the exhibits. The Dorgan-Sublett House is along the road between Castolon and Santa Elena Canyon as well as a few other ruins. Terlingua Abajo and Luna's Jacal are on the Old Maverick Road within a 30 minute drive from Santa Elena Canyon.

On Ross Maxwell Drive are the old Homer Wilson ranch house and the old Sam Nail ranch. Not much left at the latter, but the Homer Wilson house is still standing and in good shape. There are more historical structures and ruins in the park, but they tend to be difficult to get to with the typical rental car. The ones I've listed are all on paved roads - except for Terlingua Abajo and Luna's Jacal which are on an improved dirt road and should be reachable with a small car (but check with a ranger for current road conditions first).

On the other side of the park near the Rio Grande Village is the Hot Springs area, which also has some historic buildings. The road in is a bit rough but should be passable for a rental car.

spirobulldog

There is Whites City which is near the entrance of Carlsbad Cavern NP. But you still have to travel about 15 miles to get to the cave. It is probably the most pathetic place I have ever stayed. The restaurant was equally as bad. This is a two lodging operating scheme all on the same property. I think one is operated as a Best Western. I usually can go one of those as a last resort, but this was really bad.

Margo

Thanks, all, for the suggestions. This is the way the first part of the trip is shaping up.

Fly into El Paso, stay overnight.
1 night Marfa

2 nights in Big Bend Chisos Mountains Lodge (Thanks, WhereAreWe, for all the neat suggestions for the park).

2 nights Fort Davis (still haven't decided between Indian Lodge and Hotel Limpia--could use help here!)

Back to either El Paso or Las Cruces for 1 night.

2 nights Silver City (at hetsmij suggestion) Any cool places to stay?

Then on to southern Arizona which I will start another thread to get help on that part.

We have decided to skip the Carlsbad Caverns--too far out of the way and maybe too cold at this time of year.

If any of you have further suggestions about this part of the trip please pass them along. Thanks
Margo

traveller1959

May I jump into this thread?

We will spend two days in Big Bend over Christmas.

In February (!) we had made reservations on the phone at Lajitas, but never got a written confirmation.

After several additional calls, they eventually sent us a confirmation at a rate which is three times (!!!) higher than the rate upon we had already agreed. After additional emails, no reply. On Tripadvisor, you find posts that Lajitas has a habit of overcharging.

We are now looking for an alternative. We are six persons.

Any recommendations? Should be nice but affordable. Thank you so much.

WhereAreWe

I'm curious: why the one night in Marfa? Not saying it's a bad idea, just curious. El Paso to Marfa is a 3 hour drive, so you'll need a plan for what to do in EP and Marfa to fill up the time. Since you're already spending 2 days in Fort Davis later, I'm not sure Marfa has a lot of offer that's worth spending a night for.

I would recommend driving south from Marfa to Presidio and driving along FM 170 to get to Big Bend. It's a big longer than going through Alpine and south to Study Butte but much more scenic. South of Marfa on 67 you'll find the Shafter ghost town. On FM 170 you'll pass through Big Bend Ranch State Park and could do a short hike into Closed Canyon (slot canyon). You need a permit to park - I think it's $5 or so and you can get one at the park headquarters or at Fort Leaton Historic Site in Presidio (that's probably easier than driving to the park headquarters).

Traveller1959-Christmas week is one of the busiest times of the year down there. You might get lucky and find something open in the Chisos Basin yet, otherwise you could try the Gage Hotel in Marathon. You might also want to look at this website for other options:
http://www.visitbigbend.com/wheretostay.html

Margo

I'm back again--West Texas intinerary has changed again. Now it is (from El Paso).
2 nights Fort Davis at Indian Lodge

2 nights Big Bend at Chisos Mts. Lodge

one night Marfa

Back to El Paso to catch flight home.

Now two questions: Where to stay in Marfa. (It is closer to EP than Marathon) In tripadvisor, the Hotel Paisano is number one hotel. It was where Rock Hudson, Eliz. Taylor and Jimmie Dean stayed while filming "Giant". That means it is rather old. If it has been kept upto date then I would like to consider it. Husband does not like "creaky" old hotels! SO, has anyone stayed there, or been by it lately?

Any suggestions on places to stay in El Paso? Or places to eat there? Someone suggested Gunther's Edelweiss which is a German restaurant east of El Paso. Maybe a German restaurant will be a good change from Tex-Mex and BBQ. So any other suggestions?