Neal
Aug 24th, 2000, 03:03 PM
#1
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Neal
I just wanted to reiterate outside what I said inside the deteriorating post below.
I enjoy your postings on Fodors, and they are a lot of what makes this site interesting. If the usual idiots who rant about this being a travel post (though I do think all of your posts are relevant to travel) had their way, I for one would no longer frequent this board. And I'm sure others would not as well. Which would not make the board particularly useful for people who are trying to get there questions answered.
For people who don't want to see certain posts, there is a simple solution that I use and would recommend to all: don't read anything you aren't interested in.
Charles
I enjoy your postings on Fodors, and they are a lot of what makes this site interesting. If the usual idiots who rant about this being a travel post (though I do think all of your posts are relevant to travel) had their way, I for one would no longer frequent this board. And I'm sure others would not as well. Which would not make the board particularly useful for people who are trying to get there questions answered.
For people who don't want to see certain posts, there is a simple solution that I use and would recommend to all: don't read anything you aren't interested in.
Charles
Aug 24th, 2000, 08:59 PM
#5
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Wow. The maturity and coherence of the previous poster is stunning. And I certainly feel out argued now. And the witticism of "charlesanidiout.com" - wouldn't an is have been appropriate somewhere in there? Or has your english class not covered that aspect of grammar yet?
I hope the sarcasm wasn't too subtle for the previous poster.... who did at least bring a smile to my face
I hope the sarcasm wasn't too subtle for the previous poster.... who did at least bring a smile to my face
Aug 25th, 2000, 04:26 AM
#7
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I understand Charles' frustration that caused him to start this thread. A pattern has developed on this forum. Someone begins to participate. They offer helpful advice. They make interesting comments on a variety of subjects, aren't rude or profane, and basically play by the rules.
Then, out of nowhere, someone will start making nasty personal comments about them, sometimes starting a whole new thread to do it. It has happened to Elvira. Martha. Michele. Bob, the Navigator. Ilisa. Nancy. Cindy. And now Neal. These sort of personal attacks are awful because they really do chill communication on the board. People shouldn't be afraid to post for fear they will be the next victim.
I hope the crabs who make these personal attacks will think about whether they are really making the forum better by trying to silence people who have done nothing wrong. Crabs, if you decide you don't like another Fodorite enough to attack them personally, perhaps you had best consider whether this type of discussion board is right for you.
Then, out of nowhere, someone will start making nasty personal comments about them, sometimes starting a whole new thread to do it. It has happened to Elvira. Martha. Michele. Bob, the Navigator. Ilisa. Nancy. Cindy. And now Neal. These sort of personal attacks are awful because they really do chill communication on the board. People shouldn't be afraid to post for fear they will be the next victim.
I hope the crabs who make these personal attacks will think about whether they are really making the forum better by trying to silence people who have done nothing wrong. Crabs, if you decide you don't like another Fodorite enough to attack them personally, perhaps you had best consider whether this type of discussion board is right for you.
Aug 25th, 2000, 11:07 AM
#9
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This kind of thread makes me laugh. All the self-righteous, holier-than-thous out there will be the first to express their lofty opinions while telling anyone who expresses an opposing opinion to go away. How typically American.
You can't stand dissention in any form because you don't know what to do when everyone is not agreeing with you. You can't debate and discuss intelligently and you certainly are not going to IGNORE comments with which you disagree! On no, never! It's a battle cry! Yet you invite others to leave while expressing your own oh-so-important opinions at the same time. The irony is hilarious, mainly because it's completely lost on you.
Go ahead people and express your opinions! That privilege, as much as some would have you believe, is not reserved for a select few.
You can't stand dissention in any form because you don't know what to do when everyone is not agreeing with you. You can't debate and discuss intelligently and you certainly are not going to IGNORE comments with which you disagree! On no, never! It's a battle cry! Yet you invite others to leave while expressing your own oh-so-important opinions at the same time. The irony is hilarious, mainly because it's completely lost on you.
Go ahead people and express your opinions! That privilege, as much as some would have you believe, is not reserved for a select few.
Aug 25th, 2000, 11:35 AM
#10
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Dear what,
You miss the point, dear. Fodors rules prohibit rudeness. The nasty personal remarks made about certain individuals on this forum were rude. Therefore they are not worthy of protection as opinions, information, or anectodes related to travel.
Got it now?
You miss the point, dear. Fodors rules prohibit rudeness. The nasty personal remarks made about certain individuals on this forum were rude. Therefore they are not worthy of protection as opinions, information, or anectodes related to travel.
Got it now?
Aug 25th, 2000, 12:21 PM
#12
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How to tell a travel-related opinion from an insult? Let's take some examples:
"I think Paris is boring and overrated." = Opinion
"So-and-so is a big jerk." = Insult
"Italy is better than Germany." = Opinion, though stated as fact
"So-and-so is a boring loudmouth." = Insult
"I disagree with so-and-so's advice about Hungary." = Opinion
"I can't believe that so-and-so opened his fat trap again" = Insult
If you are still having trouble with this concept, ask a six-year-old. Many of them are being taught by their parents how to keep their insults to themselves.
"I think Paris is boring and overrated." = Opinion
"So-and-so is a big jerk." = Insult
"Italy is better than Germany." = Opinion, though stated as fact
"So-and-so is a boring loudmouth." = Insult
"I disagree with so-and-so's advice about Hungary." = Opinion
"I can't believe that so-and-so opened his fat trap again" = Insult
If you are still having trouble with this concept, ask a six-year-old. Many of them are being taught by their parents how to keep their insults to themselves.
Aug 25th, 2000, 12:24 PM
#13
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Michael, are you really saying you can't tell the difference between a rude personal attack and an opinion related to travel?
Let me give two hypothetical examples:
"Michael is an opinionated clod with the intellect of a preschool child" = rude personal attack.
"I think LA is the dirtiest city in the US" = opinion related to travel.
See what I mean?
No one is saying people had to enjoy Neal's post. Attacking him personally (or anyone else) is not appropriate on this board.
Let me give two hypothetical examples:
"Michael is an opinionated clod with the intellect of a preschool child" = rude personal attack.
"I think LA is the dirtiest city in the US" = opinion related to travel.
See what I mean?
No one is saying people had to enjoy Neal's post. Attacking him personally (or anyone else) is not appropriate on this board.
Aug 25th, 2000, 12:32 PM
#14
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Let me be the 13th, and hopefully last, contributor to this thread. I’ve never had a thread with my name on it… I don’t know whether to be pleased or chagrined.
Over on the thread I started a few days ago, “The Couple in Room 404,” Jill replied this way: “Neal's lengthy narratives on this board seem to serve his own creative writing purposes rather than any true travel information exchange…”
I respond to a fair number of posts seeking information about areas that I know well or have visited recently. When I do, my information is packed into one or two paragraphs. I try to be helpful and concise.
When I travel somewhere interesting and want to share my impressions, I do so in a different way. Saying, “I just came back from East Overshoe and it was really great; but the museum isn’t so hot,” seems to lack something, like a reason to go. And so, the posts I originate tend to be fairly long because I include a lot of the “go because” or “don’t go because” information.
I’m not a writer by trade, I don’t aspire to be one, and I don’t need a creative writing outlet. All I’m attempting to do is share what I saw the best way I know how. When I wrote recently about a trip to Prince Edward Island, I opened it with an account of an island controversy about Anne of Green Gables. When I wrote about the Grand Hyatt in New York, I added some historical information about how the hotel came to be built. Why? I thought it would make what followed seem less dry and guidebook-like. No one is obliged to read or to respond.
And, sometimes what I write sinks without a trace. What I wrote about the Regent Wall Street drew nary a response. And why should it, unless someone out there wants to say, “amen,” or “I disagree.” But sometimes what I write is a springboard for others to add their two cents worth. There’s now an entire mini-guide to Cincinnati in the archives, awaiting discovery by anone who can use the “search” function.
My “Couple in Room 404” wasn’t intended to be melodramatic or a writing exercise. I had a travel experience that put me in a position of not knowing whether what I had done was right or wrong. The crux of what I wrote was, “Did my insisting on police intervention help save the woman from harm or did it ensure that, in another time and place, she would be beaten more severely than had I never made that first trip to the desk?” I don’t have the experience or the expertise to answer that question, but a dozen people who work in that area could and did answer it.
Enough said.
Over on the thread I started a few days ago, “The Couple in Room 404,” Jill replied this way: “Neal's lengthy narratives on this board seem to serve his own creative writing purposes rather than any true travel information exchange…”
I respond to a fair number of posts seeking information about areas that I know well or have visited recently. When I do, my information is packed into one or two paragraphs. I try to be helpful and concise.
When I travel somewhere interesting and want to share my impressions, I do so in a different way. Saying, “I just came back from East Overshoe and it was really great; but the museum isn’t so hot,” seems to lack something, like a reason to go. And so, the posts I originate tend to be fairly long because I include a lot of the “go because” or “don’t go because” information.
I’m not a writer by trade, I don’t aspire to be one, and I don’t need a creative writing outlet. All I’m attempting to do is share what I saw the best way I know how. When I wrote recently about a trip to Prince Edward Island, I opened it with an account of an island controversy about Anne of Green Gables. When I wrote about the Grand Hyatt in New York, I added some historical information about how the hotel came to be built. Why? I thought it would make what followed seem less dry and guidebook-like. No one is obliged to read or to respond.
And, sometimes what I write sinks without a trace. What I wrote about the Regent Wall Street drew nary a response. And why should it, unless someone out there wants to say, “amen,” or “I disagree.” But sometimes what I write is a springboard for others to add their two cents worth. There’s now an entire mini-guide to Cincinnati in the archives, awaiting discovery by anone who can use the “search” function.
My “Couple in Room 404” wasn’t intended to be melodramatic or a writing exercise. I had a travel experience that put me in a position of not knowing whether what I had done was right or wrong. The crux of what I wrote was, “Did my insisting on police intervention help save the woman from harm or did it ensure that, in another time and place, she would be beaten more severely than had I never made that first trip to the desk?” I don’t have the experience or the expertise to answer that question, but a dozen people who work in that area could and did answer it.
Enough said.
Aug 25th, 2000, 01:02 PM
#15
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No, Neal, there is more to be said. The people who post for the sole reason of heckling your posts are, in my very humble opinion, kinda jealous. That is what I think. There are countless trip reports and other oddities on the board, so why attack you? Jealousy, plain and simple.
Maybe I'm not helping your cause by saying that, but you were too polite to say it. Please, please don't start writing like some of the sixth graders on the board.
Thanks again!
Maybe I'm not helping your cause by saying that, but you were too polite to say it. Please, please don't start writing like some of the sixth graders on the board.
Thanks again!
Aug 25th, 2000, 01:07 PM
#16
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I enjoy Neal's posts, to a point, and in fact have saved several in a file I am compiling for an extended East Coast trip next year.
I did, however, find one of Neal's comments interesting: "I thought it would make what followed seem less dry
and guidebook-like."
A good guidebook is rarely "dry." Guidebooks are written by highly compensated professional writers whose livelihoods depend on the ability to be concise without being either boring or superfluous. The best-selling guidebooks provide that type of writing without disintegrating into a text relating the author's reminisces.
The point is, I think it is the sometimes-lengthy, often-flowery, first-person observations of a place or thing that frustrates some of the readers.
On the other hand, if were a choice between flowery or not-at-all, I'd have to go with flowery. So thanks for the posts.
I did, however, find one of Neal's comments interesting: "I thought it would make what followed seem less dry
and guidebook-like."
A good guidebook is rarely "dry." Guidebooks are written by highly compensated professional writers whose livelihoods depend on the ability to be concise without being either boring or superfluous. The best-selling guidebooks provide that type of writing without disintegrating into a text relating the author's reminisces.
The point is, I think it is the sometimes-lengthy, often-flowery, first-person observations of a place or thing that frustrates some of the readers.
On the other hand, if were a choice between flowery or not-at-all, I'd have to go with flowery. So thanks for the posts.
Aug 25th, 2000, 03:05 PM
#18
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xxxxxx, (is that your name or your movie rating?) please define for everyone in the U.S. and the world exactly what "rude" is, if you would be so kind. While you're at it, why don't you contact the U.S. Supreme Court and explain to them exactly what "obscene" is, because those nimnods STILL can't figure it out! Little did they know that you were out there lurking with all the answers to every subjective question in the world! Boy, wise old Solomon is alive and well and nobody even knew about you!
Aug 25th, 2000, 08:12 PM
#20
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How sad that Neal even has to explain himself here.
If one or two are jealous of your writing style don't go changing to suit them. Some of us find it a joy to read. That report you wrote about the facecloth (or something) on a wall or fence outside a hotel room window was one of the funniest things I've read here.
If one or two are jealous of your writing style don't go changing to suit them. Some of us find it a joy to read. That report you wrote about the facecloth (or something) on a wall or fence outside a hotel room window was one of the funniest things I've read here.
