Moving toST Louis-MO
Aug 11th, 2006, 05:36 AM
#41
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Hi Melissa,
St. Louis can be a great place to live, depending upon your expectations. It would probably be much more relaxed than your NJ life, if for no other reason than it is much easier to make big changes in lifestyle and philosophy if also accompanied by a geographic change.
We lived in Ladue for 2 years. It is not even 30 minutes from downtown St. Louis on Clayton Road, but there are other big streets/highways that run parallel to Clayon both to the north or south, so you're not confined to a single route for commuting.
The schools in Ladue are excellent, as are those in Clayton. One caveat, however: the St. Louis I used to live in was a very "closed shop." People are pleasant and friendly, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee a circle of friends right away as it does in some parts of the country. The one question people ask in STL is "Where did you go to school?" They're not asking where you attended college; rather, they want to know where you went to high school, so they can place you in the intricate web of private vs. parochial vs. public schools/ contacts/ lifestyle. I was in a book club in Ladue and we talked about this very situation. Another woman (her husband was a native) and I were the only ones who hadn't grown up in the area. Coincidentally, we had both gone to boarding schools, although not the same one. After a bottle of wine (this was an especially fun book club) our native-born friends suggested we make up a h.s. background for ourselves. They agreed that to pretend we were from Clayton High School would be the best compromise. If we named a private school, everyone would know immediately by virtue of the questions (you must have been there with Binky's brother, etc.) that it wasn't true. And they theorized that Clayton, albeit public, provided enough of an upscale address and was big enough not to know everyone. Horton Watkins High (Ladue) was ruled out because it was just too small to have gone anonymously.
Of course,we never lied about our h.s. background but it was a very funny situation. I don't know if STL is still like that, but I imagine it is.
St. Louis can be a great place to live, depending upon your expectations. It would probably be much more relaxed than your NJ life, if for no other reason than it is much easier to make big changes in lifestyle and philosophy if also accompanied by a geographic change.
We lived in Ladue for 2 years. It is not even 30 minutes from downtown St. Louis on Clayton Road, but there are other big streets/highways that run parallel to Clayon both to the north or south, so you're not confined to a single route for commuting.
The schools in Ladue are excellent, as are those in Clayton. One caveat, however: the St. Louis I used to live in was a very "closed shop." People are pleasant and friendly, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee a circle of friends right away as it does in some parts of the country. The one question people ask in STL is "Where did you go to school?" They're not asking where you attended college; rather, they want to know where you went to high school, so they can place you in the intricate web of private vs. parochial vs. public schools/ contacts/ lifestyle. I was in a book club in Ladue and we talked about this very situation. Another woman (her husband was a native) and I were the only ones who hadn't grown up in the area. Coincidentally, we had both gone to boarding schools, although not the same one. After a bottle of wine (this was an especially fun book club) our native-born friends suggested we make up a h.s. background for ourselves. They agreed that to pretend we were from Clayton High School would be the best compromise. If we named a private school, everyone would know immediately by virtue of the questions (you must have been there with Binky's brother, etc.) that it wasn't true. And they theorized that Clayton, albeit public, provided enough of an upscale address and was big enough not to know everyone. Horton Watkins High (Ladue) was ruled out because it was just too small to have gone anonymously.
Of course,we never lied about our h.s. background but it was a very funny situation. I don't know if STL is still like that, but I imagine it is.
Aug 11th, 2006, 05:52 AM
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Off topic-
kswl! Same thing happens in small rural towns eastern WA/ID- like when you're going to state uni. You're automatically labelled by your high school- and I do have some friends from boarding school/out of state who lie about where they went to school- just for kicks, though! I've thought about it, but it just makes those people's little brains pop when I reveal I went to a private parochial school. "Really? You don't act like a private school/Catholic chick!" "You mean, there's a specific way private school chicks act?" LOL....
kswl! Same thing happens in small rural towns eastern WA/ID- like when you're going to state uni. You're automatically labelled by your high school- and I do have some friends from boarding school/out of state who lie about where they went to school- just for kicks, though! I've thought about it, but it just makes those people's little brains pop when I reveal I went to a private parochial school. "Really? You don't act like a private school/Catholic chick!" "You mean, there's a specific way private school chicks act?" LOL....
Aug 11th, 2006, 05:56 AM
#45
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You're right--it's a whole mental infrastructure of expectations, opinions, half-truths, memories, regrets, etc. In STL this social infrastructure is sort of like its operating system, lol. But I will say that my experience was in Ladue. I think that people out farther, like Ballwin, or Parkland (did I remember that correctly?) will find that newer areas are less concerned with those things. But then you are farther from the city center and have the commute issue . . .
Aug 11th, 2006, 06:01 AM
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Ladue and Clayton always had a rivalry going on (families and the schools) but CHS also had one with Ladue HS and Brentwood HS. And yes, it was tough on people who moved into those areas compared to the ones born and raised there. Kinda like old money vs new money.
Aug 11th, 2006, 06:05 AM
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Melissa,
Have a great trip to Europe, hopefully without too many travel hassles and difficulties. When you return, you can continue your research into new locations for your family. I'm sure there are many jobs for financial controllers around the country.
I do think, however, that if you are trying to stay within the same housing budget, your $500,000 will not buy you much house, or land, in the inner suburbs of St. Louis (Clayton, Ladue). You will have to head further west. Please do research on St. Charles county, Wildwood, O'Fallon (MO, there is an O'Fallon in IL also). These will yield your husband longer commutes, but may get you an acceptable school district with some land for your price range.
kswl, yes, it's all the same. But, you do choose whom you spend time with. My book club, made up of mostly Ladue and Clayton HS moms is not like that at all. And, I'm glad you were never found out. Clayton HS is very small, and I think most people would still be able to pull a "oh, you must have been there with X" comment.
And, I'm think of changing the traditional St. Louis question of "where did you go to HS" to include " where did you go to elementary school? When visiting colleges in the East coast with my DD, we ran into someone, who after a bit of discussion, we found out was taught in elementary by my MIL. It was an "Oh, Mrs. X, she was the BEST!"
Have a great trip to Europe, hopefully without too many travel hassles and difficulties. When you return, you can continue your research into new locations for your family. I'm sure there are many jobs for financial controllers around the country.
I do think, however, that if you are trying to stay within the same housing budget, your $500,000 will not buy you much house, or land, in the inner suburbs of St. Louis (Clayton, Ladue). You will have to head further west. Please do research on St. Charles county, Wildwood, O'Fallon (MO, there is an O'Fallon in IL also). These will yield your husband longer commutes, but may get you an acceptable school district with some land for your price range.
kswl, yes, it's all the same. But, you do choose whom you spend time with. My book club, made up of mostly Ladue and Clayton HS moms is not like that at all. And, I'm glad you were never found out. Clayton HS is very small, and I think most people would still be able to pull a "oh, you must have been there with X" comment.
And, I'm think of changing the traditional St. Louis question of "where did you go to HS" to include " where did you go to elementary school? When visiting colleges in the East coast with my DD, we ran into someone, who after a bit of discussion, we found out was taught in elementary by my MIL. It was an "Oh, Mrs. X, she was the BEST!"
Aug 11th, 2006, 06:23 AM
#52
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Funny, liz---that opens up a whole new can of worms, elementary school does. 
As I mentioned, we never actually tried to pass ourselves off as Clayton h.s. grads, it was the discussion about it --and the need for that discussion---that was funny and so revealing.
I don't fault STL or its denizens for the elaborate social structure; it's part of the stability of the place and therefore part of its appeal. But it's definitely something that a person moving there should know about.
Melissa didn't say that they planned to stay in the same price range for housing; often, when people change jobs there is a rise in salary. The lower overall cost of living in STL from NJ, however, will mean they'll have more income for housing even if the salary remains static. I think it's worth a look at the in-town neighborhoods.
As I mentioned, we never actually tried to pass ourselves off as Clayton h.s. grads, it was the discussion about it --and the need for that discussion---that was funny and so revealing. I don't fault STL or its denizens for the elaborate social structure; it's part of the stability of the place and therefore part of its appeal. But it's definitely something that a person moving there should know about.
Melissa didn't say that they planned to stay in the same price range for housing; often, when people change jobs there is a rise in salary. The lower overall cost of living in STL from NJ, however, will mean they'll have more income for housing even if the salary remains static. I think it's worth a look at the in-town neighborhoods.
Aug 11th, 2006, 09:37 AM
#53
MB, I've lived in St. Louis since 1979 after spending my first 24 years mostly in the DC suburbs. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "slower more relaxed way of life". What's slower and more relaxed to one won't be to another. St. Louis fits into the medium city mold. Traffic is nowhere near as bad as the big cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) but horrendous if you ask the folks from small towns. StL isn't a hustle and bustle place like the bigger cities tend to be. But again, ask someone from a small town and you may get another answer.
There's a saying that "things move slower in the South". I've been in smaller southern towns where that seemed to be the case. If you're really looking for slower and more relaxed, I think you're looking at smaller, southern cities (perhaps under 50,000) but the job opportunities may not be there.
I like StL. There are plenty of cultural activities, there's a reasonable level of sophistication, good restaurants, and a central location vis a vis the rest of the country.
StL is kinda strange in that the city itself is pretty small and has less than 500,000 people. But StL County, which most folks think of as "St. Louis", is a quilt of different municipalities having a population well over 1 million. If you're familiar with Baltimore, it's the same structure. So when the posters above are mentioning Ladue, Clayton, Webster Groves, etc, those are towns in StL County. Imagine your typical beltway surrounding a large city. StL County comprises all the area outside AND inside the beltway with the exception of the City which is maybe 30% of the land located on the eastern portion inside the beltway.
StL has seen a ton of urban sprawl over the last 10-15 years as many folks have moved farther west, into towns outside the beltway where new subdivisions are constantly being built ("West County"). StL City, as well as many of the StL County towns located inside the beltway, feature older, established neighborhoods where the homes are typically 50-125 years old. There's simply no room for new subdivisions. Thus, there are virtually no new housing projects in these areas except for some condos. These older homes typically don't have attached garages, etc. But they can be very charming (and expensive). Hence the push west for folks wanting newer, bigger, and more affordable homes. $500,000 in the West County towns can buy you a nice sized, modern 4 bedroom house. It won't buy you anything close to that in the nicer towns located inside the beltway. Ladue and Clayton are inside the beltway and are among the wealthiest towns in StL County.
I don't know if living in one of these newer subdivisions in West County would fit your definition of living 30-45 minutes outside of the city. That would be your husband's minimum commute if you lived somewhere in West County and had to commute to StL City.
Don't know if any of this helps. If you could be more specific, it would helps us immensely.
Dave
There's a saying that "things move slower in the South". I've been in smaller southern towns where that seemed to be the case. If you're really looking for slower and more relaxed, I think you're looking at smaller, southern cities (perhaps under 50,000) but the job opportunities may not be there.
I like StL. There are plenty of cultural activities, there's a reasonable level of sophistication, good restaurants, and a central location vis a vis the rest of the country.
StL is kinda strange in that the city itself is pretty small and has less than 500,000 people. But StL County, which most folks think of as "St. Louis", is a quilt of different municipalities having a population well over 1 million. If you're familiar with Baltimore, it's the same structure. So when the posters above are mentioning Ladue, Clayton, Webster Groves, etc, those are towns in StL County. Imagine your typical beltway surrounding a large city. StL County comprises all the area outside AND inside the beltway with the exception of the City which is maybe 30% of the land located on the eastern portion inside the beltway.
StL has seen a ton of urban sprawl over the last 10-15 years as many folks have moved farther west, into towns outside the beltway where new subdivisions are constantly being built ("West County"). StL City, as well as many of the StL County towns located inside the beltway, feature older, established neighborhoods where the homes are typically 50-125 years old. There's simply no room for new subdivisions. Thus, there are virtually no new housing projects in these areas except for some condos. These older homes typically don't have attached garages, etc. But they can be very charming (and expensive). Hence the push west for folks wanting newer, bigger, and more affordable homes. $500,000 in the West County towns can buy you a nice sized, modern 4 bedroom house. It won't buy you anything close to that in the nicer towns located inside the beltway. Ladue and Clayton are inside the beltway and are among the wealthiest towns in StL County.
I don't know if living in one of these newer subdivisions in West County would fit your definition of living 30-45 minutes outside of the city. That would be your husband's minimum commute if you lived somewhere in West County and had to commute to StL City.
Don't know if any of this helps. If you could be more specific, it would helps us immensely.
Dave
Aug 11th, 2006, 10:06 AM
#54
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Dave, aren't there are more affordable homes in Warson Woods, that are still in the Ladue school district? And there are a few neighborhoods that go to the Clayton schools that are not actually in Clayton. My memory of these is hazy!
Aug 11th, 2006, 10:18 AM
#56
kswl, I'm no expert on housing prices but I'd be surprised if $500,000 bought you a nice 4 BR house in Warson Woods. That said, I'm sure there are some areas inside the beltway where such a home can be bought.
Aug 11th, 2006, 10:42 AM
#57
MB,the more I think of your situation, it reminds me of my brother. He lives in a small college town (~10,000) 45 minutes outside Indianapolis. His town is slow paced and very neighborly, as most towns that size are. For action and culture, they head to Indy. While he doesn't work in Indy, many in the town do.
StL, like all other decent sized cities, has small towns nearby. Like Tracy said, Illinois, where I work, has lots of them within 45 minutes of downtown StL. If your husband finds a job to his liking here or elsewhere, I'm sure you'd be able to find a small town nearby that would give you what you seem to be looking for.
Good luck. These kind of decisions are never easy. Dave
StL, like all other decent sized cities, has small towns nearby. Like Tracy said, Illinois, where I work, has lots of them within 45 minutes of downtown StL. If your husband finds a job to his liking here or elsewhere, I'm sure you'd be able to find a small town nearby that would give you what you seem to be looking for.
Good luck. These kind of decisions are never easy. Dave
Aug 11th, 2006, 11:18 AM
#58
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Melissa,
Don't be intimidated by posts you may qualify as negative, etcc..
Please give STL a good look. It offers many cultural opportunities, diverse neighborhoods, and you are close enough to Chicago, memphis, etc.. for a weekend getaway.
For $5ook - you certainly can get a nice size home in the West and South county areas - new subdivions... with a yard.
In Clayton, ladue, even U city... that price does not buy very much any more.
BTW... Clayton is very small. they like to recruit out- of-district kids to attend. My husband went there and know most of the kids in the grades below and above him in HS.
O'fallon is a great suggestion to look into. It apparently was voted one of the best new towns in the country...
I think it will be what you make it!!
Don't be intimidated by posts you may qualify as negative, etcc..
Please give STL a good look. It offers many cultural opportunities, diverse neighborhoods, and you are close enough to Chicago, memphis, etc.. for a weekend getaway.
For $5ook - you certainly can get a nice size home in the West and South county areas - new subdivions... with a yard.
In Clayton, ladue, even U city... that price does not buy very much any more.
BTW... Clayton is very small. they like to recruit out- of-district kids to attend. My husband went there and know most of the kids in the grades below and above him in HS.
O'fallon is a great suggestion to look into. It apparently was voted one of the best new towns in the country...
I think it will be what you make it!!
Aug 11th, 2006, 11:19 AM
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If you do find yourself still interested in St. Louis, definitely check out the Illinois side. You will get much more house for your money than many of the suburbs on the St. Louis side. And as I mentioned above, many still have a small town feel to them, even if they are within a thirty minute or so drive from St. Louis. The towns in Illinois are definitely slower paced than most in Missouri. Traffic isn't bad, there are still lots of farms, even in the larger towns, and genernally its just nice and quite for the most part. There are some great parks, and in Madison County, where I live, there is a fabulous walk/bike trail system. Many people from St. Louis come over here just to use them.
Regardless of what you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck. And I hope you have a terrific vacation. I have been spending the morning planning my own European vacation, as we are headed to Croatia and Slovenia in November.
Tracy
Regardless of what you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck. And I hope you have a terrific vacation. I have been spending the morning planning my own European vacation, as we are headed to Croatia and Slovenia in November.
Tracy
Aug 11th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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Kswl,
Some neighborhoods in Richmond Heights are part of the Clayton School District. Lake Forest is one of them (corner of Hanley and Clayton) but you won't find a house in there for under 800,000 or 900,000.
annesherrod,
What years did your husband attend CHS?
Some neighborhoods in Richmond Heights are part of the Clayton School District. Lake Forest is one of them (corner of Hanley and Clayton) but you won't find a house in there for under 800,000 or 900,000.
annesherrod,
What years did your husband attend CHS?
