sorry to hear Some of you have such awful memories of Pittsburgh, I have lived in this area all my life and the winters are not that bad.. kid a pretty actually and you can not beat our FALL here. If I would ever move Mars, Cranberry,Wexford are great places. And with all the new road systems it is so easy to get into Pitts., and there is so much to do @ any of these places, and all around you. Was in (LA.) Calif. once for a montht ot visit friends that lived in Orange county.. we traveled all over the area, except for San Louis Abisbo(sp)you can keep the rest was not impressed! People were so rude and just plain STRANGE;no one talks to eachother like in stores, restaraunts.. you name it. too many places were dirty.. and besides the ususal tourist traps was not THAT much to do We love PA>

Well Melrose, some of us weren't born in the Pittsburgh area-- and that's an irremedial strike against you in the insular communities of western Pennsylvania. They never let you forget it. Ever.

I find that Californians treat people the same way they're treated. All I know is that everyone is wonderfully friendly to me wherever I go-- San Luis Obispo, San Francisco, Oakland, Compton, Santa Monica, San Diego, Palm Springs, you name it. And I've lived in this area for over twenty years and haven't run out of things to see and do. You weren't trying hard enough, apparently. I run out of things to do in Pittsburgh within two days.

I really do agree with SLA ara, we stayed there for a few days and just loved it. did not go to any of the other places you mentioned. but, the LA area, well what can I say i was not impressed, did not even like Disney as much there as the one in Fla., still disagree with you there is just about eveythng to do in Pa., well excpet sking , but then again we have the snow not the waves. To each their own. What part did you used to live in? Alot changes in all these years. I do not live right in Pittsburgh, just go there @ least a few times a month and always feel welcomed.. Huge Steelers fan and even our beloved Pirates. We all have something to offer ..... Is waht we make of it!Aanywhere we go, or live. Good luck to mdexphys , also as for schools do not go to Penn Hills I have relatives that live in that area, nothing like it used to be. Very run down!

According to Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine, the Pittsburgh metropolitan area ranks ninth in the nation in the list of the smartest cities to set down roots.
Affordability, cultural and leisure activities, education options and quality housing were major factors.
The study, which also looked at the quality of health care, crime rates, weather, and commute times, was aimed at determining the 50 most fiscally sensible cities in America to live... places where good living wasn't too bad for the pocketbook.
A Mr. O'Neil from Kiplinger's referred to Pittsburgh as " the affordable San FRancisco."
Coastal cities from Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles to Boston, New York, and Miami, fared poorly because it costs so much to live there.
The results are in the June issue of the magazine or at www.kiplingers.com.

Sean O'Neill of Kiplinger's owes me dry cleaning for my suit. I just wrinkled and dirtied it ROFLing at that "affordable San Francisco" crack.

The only thing about San Francisco that reminded me of Pittsburgh was the Tenderloin. Reminds me of downtown after dark.

Melrose: I grew up in the South Hills. *shudder* Well, my upbringing certainly toughened me up for living in southern CA-- even the people on the mean streets of Long Beach seem nice to me after growing up in the South Hills of Pittsburgh....

I always get a kick out of the "best places" surveys. They are SO subjective, they're meaningless.

"The affordable San Francisco." That's funny! As one who lived in PGH for 3 years and visited SF a number of times, the only thing they have in common is the hills. However, the PGH hills can be treacherous as they may be snow covered. There's an old saying - you get what you pay for. There's a reason real estate in PGH is dirt cheap.

The only thing about San Francisco that reminded me of Pittsburgh was the Tenderloin.

And the 5 Super Bowl Trophies per city.

Who are all these miserable people posting here? And why does everything have to be a competition?

Let me set the record straight. Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, Boston, etc... are *all* great places to live and have their own pluses and minuses. You know the pluses and minuses. Some places have great weather, lots to do, the ocean, lotsa young people, traffic that hogs your day, impossible real estate market, the look of distance on people's faces that only a huge city can bring, year round mild temps, etc...Other places have amazing homes at affordable prices in georgeous, historic neighborhoods, good schools, friendly, small town people, much less to do, beautiful winters, hills.

What is so hard for you enlighted, wll travelled people to understand that just because one way of life is different, doesn't make it worse? Who in their right mind compares LA to Pittsburgh? The country's second most populus city to the country's approximately 51st most populus city. Who in their right mind could possibly compare the real estate market of these two cities?

Retarded.

PS. Living in San Francisco for 99% of the people means the following choices:

1. live in a closet/shack for an apartment for low rent. have some money leftover to do stuff. no wealth accumulation. or, live with 2 or more other roomates (sharing an apartment is not a positive progression).

2. buy a house in the city? ahahahhahhaha! good one!

3. buy a house in the suburbs and commute over an hour each way to work and live with a pathetic income/mortage ratio.

4. monetary/life paralysis as a result of number 3 (absurd income to mortgage ratio plus long commute).

5. You get extremely lucky (ie your the 1% who doesn't have to deal with any of these issues).

I know these big cities as well as anyone. The only time in your life worth living in one is when you are in your twenties and single.

Your mileage may vary...

Plinko

great point but also why is it if a place isn't Los Angeles everyone assumes there just isn't much to do? Every state/city has a great park, some local factory you can tour, antiquing, fairs, museums, theatre and lakes, just because it isn't NYC, LA or San Fran does it become the boring capitol of the world.

rjw:

maybe you should be more creative if you run out of things to do in Pittsburgh. within 50 miles of the city there are many historical bldgs (Harmony, PA comes to mind), factory tours at Fiestaware (Newell, WV), and 2 chocolate factories, antiquing and Rogers Ohio flea market about 50 miles away, Ohiopyle 50 miles east for hiking/biking and whitewater rafting, along with Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater/Kentuck Knob, and dozens of other free admission parks to explore. I just picked up a brochure recently of an old coal mine you could explore too. If you are bored you are a very simple person.

Stephanie, I wouldn't say there is little to do in a place like Pittsburgh. What is mean is that if one must compare, there is going to be *less* to do Pittsburgh than in a city like San Francisco (although actually doing things on a weekday in San Francisco that requires car travel is a bit tougher because of the traffic).

I wholeheartedly agree about your points about it depending on the person. I spent my younger years in big cities and made my way back to Pittsburgh. Best thing I ever did. I find I don't have enough time to do all things I want to do here. There are just no logistics barriers in a smaller city like Pittsburgh and that is a wonderful thing.

I don't want anyone to confuse that I'm just another yinzer who "sees" Pittsburgh and nothing else. There are better cities, of course. I would move to Switzerland or Austin, TX if I found the right job. Like you say, if you can't enjoy living in Pittsburgh, I think that is more your problem than anything else.

Stephanie, I grew up in the Pittsburgh area. By the time I'd left, I had done everything fun that there was. Several times. Now I go back on business several times a year. Not really by choice. My company (I'm one of the owners) has an office there; our other divisions have offices in fun places like New York, London and Tokyo, but I play the hand life deals me.

Pittsburgh has the amount of things going on that you would expect for a city of its size and age. Absolutely. And it's cheap. That works for many people. Not enough to stem the outflow of people for whom that's not enough to keep them there.

I choose my battles. I'll take living in a smaller space and enjoying my life where I live, with the genuinely nice people around me.

I GREW UP HERE IN PITTSBURGH AND LIVED OUT WEST FOR 12 YEARS...BEST THING I EVER DID, MOVING BACK HOME...SOUTH POINT BREEZE...WHERE ELSE DO THEY HAVE "BLOCK PARTIES"? FREE CONCERTS ON THE LAWN SUCH AS WE HAVE IN MELLON PARK AND THE FRICK? LITTLE BISTRO'S WHERE YOU CAN SIT OUTSIDE AND HAVE A CUP OF COFFEE AND LISTEN TO THE MUSIC FLOATING THROUGH THE AIR FROM THE NEARBY PARKS...SANTA COMING TO VISIT THE CHILDREN AT CHRISTMAS TIME ON A BLOCKED OFF STREET FILLED WITH FESTIVE TIME...HAYRIDES IN THE FALL IN A LOCAL SCHOOL YARD FOR THE CHILDREN...NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN...AND OH YES, PEOPLE WHO STILL SAY "GOODMORNING" AS THEY PASS ONE ANOTHER WHILE TAKING A MORNING WALK...AND NEIGHBORS WHO BRING A "CASSEROLE" TO YOUR HOME JUST TO SAY...WE CARE...YES, THIS IS PITTSBURGH AND WE DO CARE...

No need for all caps, Gerryann. It makes it very hard to read your post. Punctuation helps as well.

rjw:

I'm 41 and was born and raised 16 miles west from Pittsburgh (your point?. I also lived near some very friendly people that I've known since I was a child. I lived in the D.C., Baltimore area before twice so I have experienced life outside one area of the country and have travelled extensively domestically. I am very impressed by the amount of activities there is to do in this area (my hometown) but I'm not some urbanite who likes to suck on cafe latte while reading some progressive alternate lifestyle magazine thinking I have some superior edge of over someone else who has other interests. I'm more of a history buff, outdoors and country person who can appreciate more than urine and spit marks, garbage and an overpopulation of people so dense they begin to be like cockroaches. If you leave your overpopulated smelly city you could enjoy life more.

Ooh, rattlin' some cages...!

Who has block parties/cares about their neighbors/says "Good morning" to passers-by/has free concerts in the parks/has Xmas street parades? Why, my neighborhood does!! And we still have the ice cream truck coming through every day (a by-product of year-round relatively warm weather).

Steph: Your experience in western PA was and is different because you were born there. I was not. And where I live now, the people have no prejudgment of outsiders. We all manage to get along with people of other colors and ethnic origins and political (or whatever) orientations. And the air around my house smells of jasmine, angel trumpets, ginger, gardenia, roses and plumeria. Not all big cities are unpleasant, crowded rat mazes.

I've lived in Pittsburgh most of my life. I like it. But, I agree with many of the cons as well as the pros. It is provincial, but it is friendly, etc.

But, the big question I have is for METELLUS!

If you are still talking about the Red Bull Inn and its roast beef sandwich, I'm beginning to wonder just how long it has been since you've actually been here??!!

The Red Bull Inn "chain" has been gone for YEARS and YEARS. There is one of its restaurants left standng -- on Campbell's Run Road. I am sure most Pittsburghers are not even aware of it. And, I don't think they even still have the roast beef!

You need to come back and visit!

rjw, you are full of crap with your generalizations. i have found nothing of the sort of attitude towards those who have moved here from somewhere else. geez. get over it. will ya? you made your point. in fact, I was just discussing with my German teacher who just moved here with her family to the suburbs no less. they love it and love how the neighborhood has welcomed them.

Plinko, you certainly are a bitter little ray of sunshine, aren't you?!

You don't know me and don't know what I dealt with growing up in Pittsburgh, so you have no business calling me "full of crap".

Your defensive unpleasantness doesn't speak well of the "friendliness" of yunzers, does it?

rjw:

I have lived in D.C./Baltimore area for a combo of like three years. I have had experience living outside the area of Pittsburgh. Provencial what a funny word. Its just that the white people in other major yuppie cities are closet racists/elitists and don't make it public. Don't flatter yourself with thinking you live in some utopia. Humans are the same everywhere.