Pamela

JEN:
Bite your tongue! What do you mean that the schools aren't as good in NH? It's the same as MA. Some towns have very good school systems and some don't. Who are you to bash NH? What are your qualifications to say that?

By the way, what the heck do you mean by low tax income? First of all, we don't have an income tax (unless you work in MA) and if we worked in NH, the average income is lower than MA because it's a lot cheaper to live in NH.

Just go away! I don't want to turn this post into an argument, but you really infuriated me.

JEN

Pamela, please calm yourself.

I'm sorry that I used the term "low tax income;" it clearly was vague. I meant to refer to communities' total percapita income from all tax sources (property, etc.). Face it, if total taxes are low (total per capita, from property, excise, etc., obviously nothing from income taxes) then that's an advantage from the perspective of the individual who's paying less taxes, but the other side of the coin is that the communities have less money to spend on schools etc. On average, NH spends $1000 less per pupil than MA.

My impression of NH schools derives mostly from reports of friends who considered moving there until they looked at the schools. If you know of any school systems in southern NH that are as good as the systems in Wayland, Weston, Lexington, etc. I'm sure missy would like to hear about them.

Sam

As Pamela has pointed out, one hazard of working in MA and living in NH is that you get a double whammy, the worst of both worlds: You have to pay MA income tax and NH property taxes.

Pamela

Bedford, Amherst, Hollis, etc. are all towns in NH with GREAT school systems. However, they are even more inconvenient to Waltham than Nashua.

The thing to look at is most cities and big towns (no matter what the state) will have some not so great schools. As I said before, generally, all states are the same where some towns have great school systems and others do not. Unfortunately, most NH cities/towns that border MA are the places without the good school systems. A lot of people looking to move to NH look mainly at those towns and that is why they come up with "the schools aren't that good in NH". I myself would not choose to raise my kids in Nashua or Salem unless they went to private school.

I my sisters and I were schooled in NH. Also, my nieces and nephews are currently schooled here as well. I haven't really heard any complaints.

Sorry for making this so much more than it should be. I have lived in NH almost my whole life and so much prefer it over MA (where my BF lives). That's just the way I feel and my preference. The only complaint that I have about NH is that they are not enough professional jobs here.

Rita

As a refugee from Massachusetts, I'm with those who say rent for a while. Towns in MA are so vastly different that you cannot quickly select the one most appealing to and appropriate for your family. Not long ago, my mother-in-law sold a tiny house with hardly any yard and way outdated plumbing, wiring, kitchen and bath for $250.00. Probably because it was almost across the street from Wellesley HS, it sold in about five minutes for the asking price, without a realtor. Without question, the lower the housing prices, the longer the commute. It's better to take some time and decide how to balance the two. A long commute is one thing in the nice weather, another entirely in inclement weather. Throw in an accident...

Pamela, let those people think what they like! NH is getting way to crowded with commuters to MA jobs! Let them live and work in MA where so many of the tax dollars collected are a) wasted, b) unaccounted for. Because of the manner in which MA dismissed so many teachers in the 80's, now they're paying a premium to get anyone they can find.

bennie

GC - actually I was not equating sketchy with far from Waltham. Not sure how you came up with that conclusion. I was specifically refering to Everett and Malden where I know the crime rate is higher than most Mass towns (thereby qualifying them as "sketchy" in my personal defination of the word"), the housing is somewhat more affordable and there is a charter school available.

gc

Bennie,
Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
My point is that you can find housing at that price point, with good school systems, within a "reasonable" commute to Waltham (if such a thing exists) in towns that are not "sketchy", as you described.

gail

To add some points to this argument.

1. Renting to test the area and the new job has its advantages, but as mentioned above, the kids have to change schools again.

2. The Rte 495 belt is not a bad option. Several nice towns - more rural but still with decent services. It is really not too far to go into Boston for an evening concert or activity. You really will not get anything close to 300K closer in. Skip Waltham and Framingham. Both are small cities with some nice areas and good features - but the schools are probably not what you want for your kids.

3. The NH option might seem feasible on a map, but the possible routes to Waltham are hopelessly clogged. Also, while I agree that there are some fine school systems in NH, the southern part of the state (where you would be looking) is only slightly cheaper for housing than Boston area. The real trade-off is in what people expect and/or demand for their tax dollars. That is a philosophical question. Just don't make the mistake of dear frineds of ours. They moved to NH for the cost and quality of life. All was great until they had 2 kids with special education needs and found there were fewer tax-payer paid-for services for them. They moved back to Mass.

4. Look at your husband's salary package and budget carefully. It is not just housing that is expensive in Massachusetts. I have lived here for 25 years and rarely think of moving, but things really are pricey.

sandy

495 is becooming much more convenient with 3 new commuter raii stations having just opened.

Towns to think about that 300K can do:
Ashland
Hopkinton
Franklin
Framingham

Good luck!

Leslie

Also add Natick to the mix, which is bordered by Wayland, Weston, Framingham, Ashland and Sherborn. I'd skip Ashland totally -- seem to be more condos than houses there now.

Along Route 128, you could consider certain Newton, Watertown, Burlington, Bedford and Concord. All are good towns with good school systems.

For $350K you won't even be able to buy a shack in Wayland. My parents bought their colonial in Wayland in 1971 for $60K -- multiply that by 15, and that is the accessed value of their home now.

Guessing that your husband's office is also located on Route 128 in Waltham, you might also consider looking toward the southshore in Norwood or even Randolph.

Leslie

Missy,
With all of the information that has been provided here, particularly about housing costs, you might want to suggest your husband revisits the financial package he is being offered to relocate. Quite possibly he can bargain for a higher salary based on the information you now have regarding how expensive it is going to be for your family to adjust to the high living costs associated with moving to Massachusetts "for the company."

Good luck!

Donna

Leslie makes an excellent suggestion. Go to www.homefair.com, then select "cost-of-living comparison". You can plug in your current income, your current city and state, and find out what income would be required for those towns you find appealing. When my husband was offered a job in Massachusetts (we live in NH), he added the MA income taxes and costs of commuting to their offer. They said okay.

sharona

Hi Missy. I have to agree with the other posters that you might want to expand your search just a bit. The towns you listed have very expensive real estate and I doubt you could find a reasonable home for your price range. One thing you should also consider when analyzing your choices is the hidden cost of living in a town. For instance, I live in Sudbury and I can assure you that my property taxes are what I consider outrageous for the services that the town provides. Eighty percent of the town budget goes to the schools, which might be okay with you since you have school aged children, but it sadly leaves other areas underfunded and will untimately cost you time or money or both. For example, garbage pick-up is not a town service paid for through your property taxes so you must either take your trash to the dump yourself or contract with a private service for about $500 a year. And my property taxes have increased almost 25% in the 3 years I have lived in this town, mostly to cover the $75 million cost of a new high school to replace an "outdated" 40 year old building. Yes, nothing but the best for our little darlings.

I second the suggestion of looking in Concord and Bedford. Both have good schools, a little more reasonably priced real estate and MUCH lower property taxes because of industry in their towns. And it would still be a relatively easy commute to Waltham.

Good luck. Cost aside, and truly I don't mind the high prices except when I don't feel I'm getting my money's worth, I really like living here.

missy

Thanks for the great suggestions, guys. With the economy the way it is, my hubby is just thankful to have a job at all, so we're pretty much stuck with the income we have now. I'll take a second look at Concord and Bedford in particular, plus Norwood.

We scouted out New Hampshire once, but the commute seemed like it would be so long and the people seemed a little too rural or countrified for us.

Jen

I'm sorry to pile up on the negative things, but Norwood was one town I absolutely ruled out because of admiinstrative rudeness and incompetence.

The middle-school guidance counselor wouldn't even let us visit or tour the school until we had bought a home in the town. All she would do was hand me a copy of their very extensive and persnickety rules book.

She then gave me a lecture on shopping for real estate: her notion was that you ride around, spot a neighborhood you like, then find out which houses are for sale there. Well, I'm sure glad I didn't do it her way, or my kids might have ended up at that school. This was in 1999, perhaps she'll be gone by the time your kids get there, but in the meantime be sure to visit any schools your kids might attend. Test scores aren't everything.

I wish I could offer specific suggestions, but Norwood was the farthest north I looked, everything else I know about is too far south to be practical for you. I've heard that Medfield has goodschools; it's no farther than Norwood is from Waltham.

Sara

"We scouted out New Hampshire once, but the commute seemed like it would be so long and the people seemed a little too rural or countrified for us."

Thanks for the huge laugh. I'm SURE you'll be much happier (though poorer) in Taxachusetts.

And, you'll be whining about the lack of courtesy everywhere you go, from drivers on the roads to being ignored by shop clerks to your kids not being accepted because they are "outsiders".

There is corruption in every level of government. Watch out what town you move to. When checking out towns, be sure to note whether the streets generally have signs.

You haven't lived until you've tried to park in a mall in the suburbs of Boston (go ahead, give the Burlington Mall a try!).

Be sure to practice up on your aggressive, offensive, driving-to-endanger skills (skills which also work well in grocery stores). Understand that MA drivers pay no attention to "yield", "stop", and have no understanding of "merge". A good place to practice (especially your lane-changing skills) is on Route 128 during rush hour.

Be sure to check the list of cars most often stolen and make sure you own a different make and model.

I've lived in Norwood, Lexington, Waltham, Wellesley, Natick, Norwood (again) and Franklin (over a 30 year period). Lexington is the only one I'd recommend, if you can afford to live there. Although, a warrant was issued for my arrest once for not paying ONE parking ticket (for an expired meter, fine $5). While in Norwood, I received a notice from the Registry to appear at a hearing and bring my license plates and license with me so they could be seized for non-payment of the town excise taxes two years. I came, with the cancelled checks in the exact amounts they claimed I hadn't paid. I was told there was no way they could tell those checks were for the excise taxes, even though the dates on the checks corresponded to the tax years and the amounts were EXACT; and that I would have to pay them again or turn in my plates and license. I really couldn't argue (with a uniformed officer demanding my plates and license) because I had to go to work. So, I paid the two years again. Interestingly, I received a refund check from the town a month or two later.

In Wellesley, Wayland, Weston and other towns, you should plan your wardrobe from the Talbott's catalog/store exclusively. You need a huge SUV and hi-line sporty vehicle in your driveway to be sort-of accepted by your neighbors.

You can get a LOT more house for the money in NH. And, lots of other necessaries are far less expensive (like car insurance and utilities and cable TV).

I am by no means recommending that you move to NH. We don't need people with "attitude" and prejudice. But, you should know what you're in for if you move to MA.

For the towns you've mentioned, you need major bucks to live comfortably. Forget what you've heard about buying the lowest price house you can find in the best neighborhood you can find. It is absolutely no fun at all for your kids to be less than very well off in a school where most folks are wealthy.

Me2

I live in NH, and have recently studied the school systems extensively. IF you decided to take that route, go for southern Hollis and Brookline. Both are close to Rt. 495, although further from Waltham than you'd probably like. Hollis is beautiful apple orchards, but close to all the citified things you seem to like. Houses in Brookline are much more reasonable, however.
Good Luck!

Jim

Don't worry, missy, not everyone in NH is as bitter and nasty as Sara.

Adam

Missy, you STILL have not bothered to mention here where you are moving from. I can assure you that the "masshole" description is totally accurate. These folks are arrogant and conceited for no particular reason. WATCH OUT. Not that you can do anything about it.

Mare

Someone already mentioned Sharon. I lived there 1989-2000. It is a very safe, quiet town, with a good school system and a 25-30 minute train ride into Boston. It is somewhat upscale, but not nearly as much as the towns you were originally considering. It also has a lake, and a beautiful state park. An older, modest home there (a ranch or cape) would probably be in your price range.