shelja

I have used this site for many trips and it has been a great resource. I was hoping to get some feedback on a possible move to the Seattle area. So, here is the story...

My husband is originally from Seattle and moved to Cleveland, OH for college. I am from the Cleveland area. He has been in Ohio for the last 12 years and well Seattle has changed quite a bit since then. We do not have any children, yet, but plan on it in next year or two.

We both have possible job opportunities in Seattle/Bellevue areas. We are strongly considering moving as Seattle is a much more desirable location than Cleveland in terms of culture, restaurants, outdoors, nature, weather,etc. Cleveland on the other hand is extremely affordable. Our house in Cleveland would be 4 times as much in Seattle. The jobs would be lateral moves for us with possible 5-10% increase for cost of living. We also have a great group of friends and my family is within 2 hours here in Cleveland.

So, I ask you fodorites who live or have lived in Seattle - what are your thoughts on making the move? Pros, cons of Seattle? The main thing holding us back is really the cost of living and traffic/congestion. How bad is it? Thanks for the feedback...

Orcas

Check for recent threads on this board on moving to the Seattle area.

Many people have moved to Seattle and Portland because this is a beautiful part of the country and it is a great place to live. You need to decide if you can afford it and if you don't mind being so far from family. When you are considering affordability, consider location close to work. My husband commutes 12 minutes to work each day, driving down a road with a lovely view. You can choose not to commute long distances, but you may have to make compromises, sometimes, re age of home and cost. There are lots of nice homes near Microsoft that aren't as expensive as west Bellevue. (if that is where you woudl be working)

Everyone has to weigh all the factors for themselves.

Gardyloo

One thing to consider is that there is no state income tax in Washington, nor municipal income taxes as one finds in many Ohio cities. Sales taxes are around 1% higher than Cleveland, though. Energy costs will be lower as a rule, all of which should go into the cost of living calculus.

1JAR

No sales tax on everyday items ..however there is a HUGE sales tax when you sell a house..any house or condo etc. We just sold my Dad's house in Port Ludlow and it was 18% of the sale price...consists of County and State sales tax...so ask the Realtor what would teh sales tac be in teh county you buy in...So plan on figuring the sales tax of selling your house into the budget equation.

FYI, I grew up in the Seattle area and left about 12 years ago too. I was shocked by the traffic issues..but still love my hometown for all the things mentioned.

Sadly tho it is no longer the sleepy city I grew up and worked in. It suffers some of the same problems other big citiues do..but the PEOPLE are wonderful and if you can handle the weather, traffic and crime like anywhere else (really not so bad)
then I think it is still the best place to live.
I'd live close to work too..

I married a military guy so yes I have "seen the world"

christy1

Traffic is only a problem for people that live far from their jobs, or far from good transit options. I live in an in-city neighborhood and take the bus to my job downtown, and I have zero problems. If you find a job in Bellevue, live there or close by. A job in downtown Seattle, live in a city neighborhood with good bus service (most every in-city neighbhorhood has good bus service, and there are some good express routes from some suburbs). Even if one of you works in Bellevue and one in Seattle, you could be strategic about where you lived so that both people have decent commutes, via car and/or transit. Like Orcas said, it might mean compromises in the size of your house and lot, but it's all a matter of your priorities.

Gardyloo

I think 1JAR was citing real estate excise tax, not sales tax, and had the decimal point in the wrong place. 1.8%, not 18%. No sales tax on real property.

Sales tax is payable on most everything, including as of late many food items. Sales and property taxes and a Washington pecularity, the business and occupation tax (business gross receipts tax) are the State's main sources of revenue.

Oregon has no state sales tax but does have a state income tax. Thus people living close to the Oregon border do a lot of shopping in Oregon and have Washington addresses. Big revenue "leakages" from both states.

shelja

Thank you all for your feedback. Well, I would be potentially working in Bellevue (Overlake Hospital) and husband in downtown Seattle so I am not sure where would be a good place to reside? We plan on renting until we get a feel for the area instead of rushing into buying a home. Any ideas of somewhat affordable areas? Plus, we can save some extra $ and hopefully the housing market cools down a bit...

Living in the midwest my whole life, I am used to a laid back and friendly culture. Not sure what Seattle is like, how easy it is to meet people, etc? Has anyone been to Cleveland to compare it to Seattle? We have been to Seattle many times but it always seems fun as we are visiting family and vacationing. Don't know what it is like to live there!

Thanks.

Gardyloo

One worker in Bellevue and the other downtown means somebody is going to face an icky commute, unless one or both doesn't mind carpooling or using public transit. The "reverse commute" - from Seattle to the Eastside - is now arguably worse than the traditional one.

But for the short term I think most people would say that living in the city is preferable to the Eastside, due to the higher density of recreation opportunities. But it's a lifestyle choice. Fortunately Seattle has many neighborhoods that offer a good combination of spaciousness and convenience.

As for comparos to Cleveland, we have several friends/relatives who either came from, or lived for a period in Cleveland, and they all prefer it here. Some folks find Seattleites to be a little standoffish at first, but I think folks are pretty open and welcoming as a rule.

fritzrl

Re the ‘people’ question – always a toughie, since individuals vary so much in their likes and expectations. The myth is that Seattleites are generally polite and ‘nice’ in an abstract sort of way, but not particularly friendly or open. The myth has some truth to it. After living a number of years in Minneapolis, I believe I can speak with some authority when I tell you that you’ll find it more difficult to build a circle of friends in Seattle than it likely has been for you in the Midwest.

Also, if diversity in an urban population is of importance to you: I read recently in a national newspaper that (1) Seattle is among the 'whitest' cities in the US, and (2) it's getting 'whiter'. The reason given for the shift is that housing prices in the city are rising steadily, and rapidly becoming unaffordable for people of modest means. Unfortunately, most people of color in this country find themselves in the 'modest means' category, and when those folks sell their homes, it's increasingly to people who are necessarily better off financially.

For that reason, the Central District -- which for decades has had primarily African-American homeowners -- is now experiencing a declining African-American population. The International District -- what we call our "Chinatown" -- is similarly experiencing a declining Asian-American population. It's really a no-brainer as to why this is happening: my neighborhood (which has long been touted as quite ‘diverse’ in every way) as well as both the Central and International Districts, are both very conveniently located close to the center of the city and close to public transit. Location, location, as they say.

However, also worthy of noting is that ethnic and/or 'racial' tensions in Seattle are extremely low compared to cities of comparable size elsewhere. Seattle is culturally a western city in that one's acceptability is directly related to one's contribution to the well-being of the community, not to the color of one's skin.

Commuting: can be brutal no matter where you live around here. If you have any control over the matter, try to avoid buying a home where you’ll have to use either one of the north/south freeways (I-5 or I-405) to commute long distances. East/west, I-90 is usually a better choice.

Now for my standard disclaimer. If you've not spent an extended period of time in the Pacific Northwest during the winter months, you might want to consider doing so before you make a final decision. As has already been noted, it's not so much the rain, it's the overcast. I know of many former residents who simply couldn't deal with 5-6 solid weeks of grey overcast and drizzle at a time, and who had to move elsewhere after their first winter here.

Fritzrl

Orcas

Traffic: Hwy 405, that runs north south through Bellevue and goes past Overlake, is horrendous. The 520 bridge to Seattle is also horrendous. That's the bad news. The good news is that I-90 is really not bad at all for commuting over the water. And, you could take various routes to Overlake avoiding 405 altogether from the south, including 148th Ave and Bellevue Way.

Housing: The most expensive areas on the eastside are west Bellevue, Kirkland and Mercer Island. Seattle is not cheap either. Western Bellevue is incredibly expensive (the MOST expensive part of metro Seattle). Unless you have a million plus in the bank, don't bother with Clyde Hill - too expensive and too too, but I won't go into that. Vuecrest is very expensive but also very well located, especially for Overlake. There are new condos going into downtown Bellevue - pricey, too, but again, well located. Enatai, also west, is less expensive but very pricey for what you get. Beaux Arts is lovely - also expensive.

Farther east and just north of I-90, areas that are more affordable in Bellevue include College Hill, Spirit Ridge, Phantom Lake, Woodridge (Woodridge has great views and is going up fast in price), Lake Hills. All of these are family neighborhoods. Most of the homes were built in the sixties and on but there is much newer infill housing. These areas are no more than five minutes farther from Seattle than the areas west of 405 and probably about 15 minutes to Overlake - maybe 20 to 25 at rush hour.

Mercer Island would be a perfect location for you, in the middle. It is, again, very expensive. Still, if there are only two of you, you might find a way to a condo or small house there. There is a women's club there that makes it easy to get to meet people. It's a wonderful community with lots of free music, plays and other activities in the parks in the summer, lots of bicyclists, bright and interesting people. Also lots of rich people, which can be a bit tough on school kids who want to keep up.

Of course there are other areas, too, but these are ones close to I-90 and are the ones I know of.

Seattle, so far as I know, is really expensive. But, if you look there, you could check anywhere close to I-90. The reverse commute is still easier on I-90, though, as I said, it isn't particularly bad going in.

People: I don't think making friends will be the problem (housing costs IS the problem). If you're Jewish, this is a very vibrant place with very welcoming congregations. There's a really good Catholic Church in Bellevue, St. Louise. Don't know about the rest. There are good political and environmental organizations, outdoor groups, bicycling - lots of ways to connect with people. I've found it really easy to make friends. Some places are more old family, like Mercer Island, but I think one could break in pretty easily through interests or kids if that works out for you. It just isn't that hard to meet people here if you try.

shelja

What is the commute time from downtown Seattle to Bellevue (Overlake)? Is there convenient public transportation from downtown to Bellevue?

My husband will be working downtown and since right now we are without kids and plan on renting for first year, thought downtown would be fun.

fritzrl

When it comes to using public transport between Seattle and any of the eastside communities, the devil's in the details, as they say.

In general, if there is a direct express bus between your starting point and your destination, and you start in the center of Seattle heading for the center of Bellevue or Redmond --such a trip could take as little as 45-60 minutes.

However, if there's no direct bus, or the bus is not an express, or if your start and finish points are not in the center of things -- who *knows* how long it could take.

Here's a link: http://transit.metrokc.gov/

Metro has a trip-planner on this website that works pretty well. Even if you don't yet know your exact start and finish points, doing a little experimentation with the Planner might give you a better idea of what you might be up against.

Downtown living can definitely be fun. I know several folks with condos in the Belltown neighborhood. The only drawback: groceries. No proper grocery stores in downtown Seattle, though plenty of deli's and 7-11 type places where one can get a quart of milk or a pack of gum at inflated prices. Also, I've heard those friends complain mightily about noisy party-goers in the wee hours of weekend nights.

Fritzl

Kostroma

Re: The commute from DT Bellevue to Overlake

I live in the area (Redmond), don't own a car, and am a virtual Metro encyclopedia, so I can give you a fair estimation of a bus commute from DT Seattle.

To Bellevue from Seattle, you'd take route 550. In good traffic, it takes about half an hour to get from Seattle to the Bellevue Transit Center (108th Ave NE and NE 6th). Once there, there are about 5 routes (233, 234, 249, 230, 253) heading to Overlake Hospital(116th Ave NE and NE 12th), which is only a few minutes away from the BTC.

If you choose to live in DT Seattle and commute by bus, I would recommend taking the 233, 234, or 249 from the BTC because they stop directly across the street from the hospital, while the 230 and 253 stop 3 blocks away.

shelja

Thanks - wow...so I imagine the drive from DT Seattle to Bellevue would take at least an hour! The traffic continues to be a big drawback for me and not sure if it is worth it!

lovesadventure

If you drive yourself, it shouldn't take nearly as long. Depending on your point of departure, Seattle to Bellevue is generally under 1/2 hour.

Going home during rush hour, especially if there's a Mariner's game, may be longer.

kureiff

It usually took me 35 to 45 minutes to drive from UW to Bellevue during rush hour across the 520 bridge. It can be a very slow trip during rush hour. However, the express buses take hardly any time at all.

I'd research public transportation routes when determining where to live as at least one of you will be commuting.

Kostroma

As lovesadventure said, driving would not take nearly as long. Unless there's an accident or traffic is backed up for another reason.

DT Bellevue and DT Seattle are only about 10 miles apart. It just seems longer with the rush hour traffic around here.

Orcas

Ditto the above. Bellevue to Seattle just isn't that hard. Bellevue and Mercer Island are so expensive because of their relatively good access to downtown Seattle. The buses get to go in the carpool lanes so don't take that long. Overlake is major, major and you won't have a hard time getting there by bus if you locate well in Seattle. Where in downtown would your husband be working?

Downtown Seattle would be fun. Also Seattle has really neat urban neighborhoods. We'd be living there if my husband's job were there. They are also expensive, but for two, you should be able to find a place.

shelja

Thanks all for the feedback. The part about Seattle DT not having a grocery store concerns me a little. Do most people have to venture out to buy food? I always thought DT Seattle was supposed to be very livable!

Hubby will be working on Elliott Ave - does that help? Seems like there is more on the market in DT Seattle to buy vs rent whereas in Bellevue there are many rental opportunities - this is opposite of what I thought it would be and interesting...

thanks again!

courtneycwo

Shelja - Sounds like you've got a big decision ahead of you. My husband and I moved from Atlanta to Seattle a few years before we had children. We've been in Seattle for 10 years now and have 2 kids.

I grew up moving a lot - having lived in the South - California - New England - Ohio - Europe and Seattle by the time that I was 21 years old. Our decision to move back to Seattle (when I was 26) was something that we did on a bit of a whim - we were young - were able to transfer our jobs from Atlanta to Seattle.

I was shocked at how much Seattle had changed in the 15 years that I had been away. Much bigger city - but also maybe more opportunities. We enjoyed living in the city - rented a place - hiked / camped / traveled. However, once we had our first child, I began to really miss not having any family in the area. Much as I loved the city of Seattle - I really missed old friends and my folks that were home in Atlanta.

After the birth of my second child - both my husband and I working full time - we went through a very stressful illness with my first child (recovered now, thank God). I cannot tell you what I would have given to have some family close by.

Long story short - we absolutely love Seattle - can't say enough good things. But, I would think about leaving my family and friends if you think that you are going to have children in the very near future.

I agree with the above posts that folks in Seattle are laid back and friendly - but of all of the places that I've lived - it took me the longest to form close friendships in Seattle. People tend to keep to themselves a bit more her (could likely be the weather).

My parents moved back to Seattle last summmer - and I am incredibly thankful. I have a brother in S. American and one in San Francisco - so we are all a bit spread out - but I feel blessed that my children have a close relationship with one set of grandparents. It has been a gift.

So - to close this most long post (sorry!). My two cents would be that if you want to move to Seattle and have children in the very near future - give some thought to how it might be to leave your family back in Cleveland. Either way - I wish you all of the best!