Most underrated and overrated cities in the U.S?
Dec 12th, 2002, 08:54 AM
#82
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Looking at these reviews, I would have to start with Pittsburgh! What are people thinking?? Definitely one of the worst medium/big cities in the country.
"Poor restaurants (I like Primanti's though)..."
You apparently haven't eaten out much there. Besides Primanti's, I can point to Jimmy Tsang's, Quaker Steak & Lube, Tessaro's (recently voted as one of the five best hamburgers in the country), the Pittsburgh Fish Market, Ali Baba's, the Original Hot Dog Shop, and the Steelhead Bar & Grille, among others.
"...rising violent crime..."
Rising, maybe, but still lower than almost every large city in the U.S. And the trend can still be reversed.
"...dilapidated buildings everywhere u look other than the skyline (which is beautiful)..."
You know, many of the beautiful buildings in Boston and San Francisco were probably dilapidated at one point or another before someone took the initiative to restore them. Also, areas like Crawford Square, Washington's Landing, and Summerset at Frick Park are all brand-new, upscale housing developments built in the city. There are also several new houses and townhouses that are either being built, or that have been built in the past few years on the South Side.
"...bone crushing debt (Pittsburgh will likely go bankrupt in the next year or 2)..."
This is largely due to two factors: a) almost 40% of the land within city limits is occupied by tax-exempt institutions such as colleges, universities, hospitals, churches, schools, and public service departments, and b) an antiquated city tax structure that's based on an industrially-inclined city that does not exist anymore, per se. I expect some meaningful tax reform to take place within the next five to ten years.
"...residual pollution (still one of the worst in the country)..."
Nothing that a quick water-blasting or sand-blasting can't take care of.
"...parochial attitudes..."
If the city you called home were slammed mercilessly (and oftentimes undeservedly) by people from all across the country, and even by many people who have never even been there, then really...why bother reaching out to anyone? And even if it is a problem (I believe it is in certain pockets of the city), well then I can think of four places to start reversing that trend: The South Side, the North Side, Shadyside, and Squirrel Hill, four of the more integrated, diverse areas of the city.
"Poor restaurants (I like Primanti's though)..."
You apparently haven't eaten out much there. Besides Primanti's, I can point to Jimmy Tsang's, Quaker Steak & Lube, Tessaro's (recently voted as one of the five best hamburgers in the country), the Pittsburgh Fish Market, Ali Baba's, the Original Hot Dog Shop, and the Steelhead Bar & Grille, among others.
"...rising violent crime..."
Rising, maybe, but still lower than almost every large city in the U.S. And the trend can still be reversed.
"...dilapidated buildings everywhere u look other than the skyline (which is beautiful)..."
You know, many of the beautiful buildings in Boston and San Francisco were probably dilapidated at one point or another before someone took the initiative to restore them. Also, areas like Crawford Square, Washington's Landing, and Summerset at Frick Park are all brand-new, upscale housing developments built in the city. There are also several new houses and townhouses that are either being built, or that have been built in the past few years on the South Side.
"...bone crushing debt (Pittsburgh will likely go bankrupt in the next year or 2)..."
This is largely due to two factors: a) almost 40% of the land within city limits is occupied by tax-exempt institutions such as colleges, universities, hospitals, churches, schools, and public service departments, and b) an antiquated city tax structure that's based on an industrially-inclined city that does not exist anymore, per se. I expect some meaningful tax reform to take place within the next five to ten years.
"...residual pollution (still one of the worst in the country)..."
Nothing that a quick water-blasting or sand-blasting can't take care of.
"...parochial attitudes..."
If the city you called home were slammed mercilessly (and oftentimes undeservedly) by people from all across the country, and even by many people who have never even been there, then really...why bother reaching out to anyone? And even if it is a problem (I believe it is in certain pockets of the city), well then I can think of four places to start reversing that trend: The South Side, the North Side, Shadyside, and Squirrel Hill, four of the more integrated, diverse areas of the city.
Dec 12th, 2002, 08:55 AM
#83
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(continued...)
"...horrid weather (ok--not their fault)..."
Climate is overrated. If it mattered all that much, Seattle, Phoenix, and Minneapolis-St. Paul would have never grown into large cities.
"...worst place for singles (according to Forbes magazine)..."
And we all know how much of an authority Forbes magazine is when it comes to singles lifestyle, right? Furthermore, that analysis rubbed me the wrong way as it was, because not only was it full of double-standards (such as praising Atlanta for having professional sports teams while slamming Pittsburgh for valuing theirs), but it made the 40 "contestant" cities out to be nothing more than commodities that are to be used and disposed of. Furthermore, I would think that the cities that are truly the best for singles are those where people might actually get married someday, as opposed to being perpetually single.
"...the lowest wage earners in more categories than any other city in the country..."
Can you give me a link to illustrate this? And even if it is true, when you're down, there's just one direction to head in.
...and residents have been fleeing the city for decades--it is really going down the drain (allegheny county also has the 2nd oldest population in the country)...
Most of the mass exodus occured roughly between 1975 and 1995. Things have stabilized since, and I really do believe that if more efforts are put into things such as tax reform, marketing the city to outsiders, and just some good old-fashioned civic pride, then who knows? Some people might actually decide to not take what the city has for granted, and even stay for a while, or even --- gasp! --- move to Pittsburgh from another city. I might also add that people who study population demographics are forecasting Pittsburgh to be one of the few areas in the country where the median age will actually decrease in the next 20 years.
You know, for as much as Pittsburgh gets smacked around by the nation at large, I think the fact that it still has as much to offer as it does is nothing short of remarkable, and really ought to be a testament to the city's resilience.
"...horrid weather (ok--not their fault)..."
Climate is overrated. If it mattered all that much, Seattle, Phoenix, and Minneapolis-St. Paul would have never grown into large cities.
"...worst place for singles (according to Forbes magazine)..."
And we all know how much of an authority Forbes magazine is when it comes to singles lifestyle, right? Furthermore, that analysis rubbed me the wrong way as it was, because not only was it full of double-standards (such as praising Atlanta for having professional sports teams while slamming Pittsburgh for valuing theirs), but it made the 40 "contestant" cities out to be nothing more than commodities that are to be used and disposed of. Furthermore, I would think that the cities that are truly the best for singles are those where people might actually get married someday, as opposed to being perpetually single.
"...the lowest wage earners in more categories than any other city in the country..."
Can you give me a link to illustrate this? And even if it is true, when you're down, there's just one direction to head in.
...and residents have been fleeing the city for decades--it is really going down the drain (allegheny county also has the 2nd oldest population in the country)...
Most of the mass exodus occured roughly between 1975 and 1995. Things have stabilized since, and I really do believe that if more efforts are put into things such as tax reform, marketing the city to outsiders, and just some good old-fashioned civic pride, then who knows? Some people might actually decide to not take what the city has for granted, and even stay for a while, or even --- gasp! --- move to Pittsburgh from another city. I might also add that people who study population demographics are forecasting Pittsburgh to be one of the few areas in the country where the median age will actually decrease in the next 20 years.
You know, for as much as Pittsburgh gets smacked around by the nation at large, I think the fact that it still has as much to offer as it does is nothing short of remarkable, and really ought to be a testament to the city's resilience.
Dec 13th, 2002, 03:59 AM
#84
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Overrated - Miami.
Downtown Miami is horrible - ugly and totally unpleasant feel to it. South Beach - yes some nicely done art deco, but all the cheap electronic stores and lots of crap buildings. As for the line that I saw there of South Beach (admittedly advertising real estate) "being the most exciting 20 blocks in the world " - for who exactly, those that have not stepped outside Florida. And why does Rosie O' Donnell want to have a view of 6 lanes of highway (40 metres over the water) and next to that the containers of the port. Spend $x million for that view ? - go and check out Sydney for a far superior beach-oriented city.(Problem there is isolation).
Underrated
Chicago. Was there for 3 mths at business school and lived downtown. The shopping quality & convenience of Michigan is great, whilst all the flowers laid out (I was told for the Democrat convention leading to Clinton's first term) down town and the beautiful buildings of State St and North Dearborn north of Oak St had a much more European feel than expected. Museum and aquarium complex where redesign was completed in 98 were great. Only thing was surprisingly large number of central dead clubs & bars outside Friday and Saturday night and the shoe shine boys trying to rob you blind - "hey big man, let me clean your shoe as you are walking along".
Downtown Miami is horrible - ugly and totally unpleasant feel to it. South Beach - yes some nicely done art deco, but all the cheap electronic stores and lots of crap buildings. As for the line that I saw there of South Beach (admittedly advertising real estate) "being the most exciting 20 blocks in the world " - for who exactly, those that have not stepped outside Florida. And why does Rosie O' Donnell want to have a view of 6 lanes of highway (40 metres over the water) and next to that the containers of the port. Spend $x million for that view ? - go and check out Sydney for a far superior beach-oriented city.(Problem there is isolation).
Underrated
Chicago. Was there for 3 mths at business school and lived downtown. The shopping quality & convenience of Michigan is great, whilst all the flowers laid out (I was told for the Democrat convention leading to Clinton's first term) down town and the beautiful buildings of State St and North Dearborn north of Oak St had a much more European feel than expected. Museum and aquarium complex where redesign was completed in 98 were great. Only thing was surprisingly large number of central dead clubs & bars outside Friday and Saturday night and the shoe shine boys trying to rob you blind - "hey big man, let me clean your shoe as you are walking along".
Dec 13th, 2002, 04:00 AM
#85
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Overrated - Miami.
Downtown Miami is horrible - ugly and totally unpleasant feel to it. South Beach - yes some nicely done art deco, but all the cheap electronic stores and lots of crap buildings. As for the line that I saw there of South Beach (admittedly advertising real estate) "being the most exciting 20 blocks in the world " - for who exactly, those that have not stepped outside Florida. And why does Rosie O' Donnell want to have a view of 6 lanes of highway (40 metres over the water) and next to that the containers of the port. Spend $x million for that view ? - go and check out Sydney for a far superior beach-oriented city.(Problem there is isolation).
Underrated
Chicago. Was there for 3 mths at business school and lived downtown. The shopping quality & convenience of Michigan is great, whilst all the flowers laid out (I was told for the Democrat convention leading to Clinton's first term) down town and the beautiful buildings of State St and North Dearborn north of Oak St had a much more European feel than expected. Museum and aquarium complex where redesign was completed in 98 were great. Only thing was surprisingly large number of central dead clubs & bars outside Friday and Saturday night and the shoe shine boys trying to rob you blind - "hey big man, let me clean your shoe)" - there are clearly a lot of big men in Chicago.
Downtown Miami is horrible - ugly and totally unpleasant feel to it. South Beach - yes some nicely done art deco, but all the cheap electronic stores and lots of crap buildings. As for the line that I saw there of South Beach (admittedly advertising real estate) "being the most exciting 20 blocks in the world " - for who exactly, those that have not stepped outside Florida. And why does Rosie O' Donnell want to have a view of 6 lanes of highway (40 metres over the water) and next to that the containers of the port. Spend $x million for that view ? - go and check out Sydney for a far superior beach-oriented city.(Problem there is isolation).
Underrated
Chicago. Was there for 3 mths at business school and lived downtown. The shopping quality & convenience of Michigan is great, whilst all the flowers laid out (I was told for the Democrat convention leading to Clinton's first term) down town and the beautiful buildings of State St and North Dearborn north of Oak St had a much more European feel than expected. Museum and aquarium complex where redesign was completed in 98 were great. Only thing was surprisingly large number of central dead clubs & bars outside Friday and Saturday night and the shoe shine boys trying to rob you blind - "hey big man, let me clean your shoe)" - there are clearly a lot of big men in Chicago.
Dec 13th, 2002, 12:08 PM
#86
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Most underrated:
Brooklyn - how many tourists to NYC actually pay a visit to Brooklyn? What a shame if you miss Brooklyn during your visit. Great neighborhoods, great ethnic foods, multi-cultural diversity. This is where you'll find the heart of New Yorkers.
Buffalo - bad winters but the other 3 seasons are great. Very friendly people, good restaurants, lots of things to do.
Quebec City - the closest thing to Europe in North America.
Providence - has neighborhood charm, a nice change from its neighbor just north up the road.
Overrated:
Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia
Brooklyn - how many tourists to NYC actually pay a visit to Brooklyn? What a shame if you miss Brooklyn during your visit. Great neighborhoods, great ethnic foods, multi-cultural diversity. This is where you'll find the heart of New Yorkers.
Buffalo - bad winters but the other 3 seasons are great. Very friendly people, good restaurants, lots of things to do.
Quebec City - the closest thing to Europe in North America.
Providence - has neighborhood charm, a nice change from its neighbor just north up the road.
Overrated:
Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia
Dec 13th, 2002, 02:59 PM
#87
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I have lived in Houston for a few years (and, shockingly, rather like it) and am amused to see it listed consistently as an "overrated" city. I have *never* heard anyone who doesn't live here (and those comments typically regard livability) say *anything* positive about Houston. How could it be overrated??
Dec 14th, 2002, 02:52 AM
#90
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Underrated parts of Dallas/Ft Worth:
Uptown Dallas/McKinney Street
Stunning hillside views in Southwest Dallas
Bishop Arts District
Turtle Creek highrise district
White Rock Lake and trails
McKinney Avenue Trolley
Night lighting effects on skyscrapers
Overrated parts of Dallas/Ft Worth:
downtown Ft Worth
Kennedy Monument in dtwn Dallas
Dallas Galleria
Uptown Dallas/McKinney Street
Stunning hillside views in Southwest Dallas
Bishop Arts District
Turtle Creek highrise district
White Rock Lake and trails
McKinney Avenue Trolley
Night lighting effects on skyscrapers
Overrated parts of Dallas/Ft Worth:
downtown Ft Worth
Kennedy Monument in dtwn Dallas
Dallas Galleria
Dec 14th, 2002, 03:17 AM
#91
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Way too hyped = San Francisco Windy, chilly, overpriced, single-minded elitist attitudes
Way under hyped = Philadelphia Fabulous sense of intelligence, history and "place;" evolving arts and dining scene, surprisingly friendly people with no 'tude.
Way under hyped = Philadelphia Fabulous sense of intelligence, history and "place;" evolving arts and dining scene, surprisingly friendly people with no 'tude.
Dec 14th, 2002, 04:59 AM
#92
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DSS, I like your style... not just grunting out an opinion, as if you were the Voice of God, but actually giving reasons and explanations for your choices... how novel and refreshing for this board!
I know San Francisco and I pretty much agree with you there. Haven't been to Philadelphia, so I'll defer an answer to that...
I know San Francisco and I pretty much agree with you there. Haven't been to Philadelphia, so I'll defer an answer to that...
Dec 14th, 2002, 09:32 AM
#93
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Thank you "me" for your eloquent, scholarly, and most importantly correct explanation. Humans as a species fear the future. They crave things the "way they are", abhor change, and are in economic denial vis-a vis what makes the economic wheels turn.
Dec 14th, 2002, 04:25 PM
#96
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For me, a good city and an underrated city are two different things. NYC is great, but also gets lots of great press. I don't like Cincinnati, and the word on Cinci matches what I think about it.
So, given that context, my thoughts:
Underrated:
1. Portland, Or. Not alot of cultural activities, but a beautiful natural area and a neat city. Recent growth management initiatives are working, IHMO.
2. Chicago. Chicago, you say? Don't they already get alot of press? Yes, but not enough. There are so many world-class restaurants, museums, etc in Chicago. I think they are #2 in the US in terms of travel desireability, and not all that far behind NYC.
3. Minneapolis. I've been going there lately on business, and I love the feel to the city. Despite the winter weather, there is an "outdoorsy" culture very deep in the community fabric. They also invest alot in the arts, and it shows.
Overrated:
1 & 2. Houston and Dallas. Yes, I realize these are quite different cities, and in some parts of the country they'd be 3 states away. But I do not get what the allure is of these cities. They are very sprawlish, and hell to get around. Plus, while there are pockets of gentrification, the cities are way too "new" for my liking. Good restaurants in both, however. Now I know there are some Texas zealots on the board, and please don't bother rebutting my points. My perception is my perception, and the only way it changes are by more visits.
3. Orlando. I can't get myself to like Orlando, and I try. I guess people assume that the weather is great (and in the winter it is) but a city has to have more than that going for it. With Disney's influence, it strikes me as artificial and expensive.
So, given that context, my thoughts:
Underrated:
1. Portland, Or. Not alot of cultural activities, but a beautiful natural area and a neat city. Recent growth management initiatives are working, IHMO.
2. Chicago. Chicago, you say? Don't they already get alot of press? Yes, but not enough. There are so many world-class restaurants, museums, etc in Chicago. I think they are #2 in the US in terms of travel desireability, and not all that far behind NYC.
3. Minneapolis. I've been going there lately on business, and I love the feel to the city. Despite the winter weather, there is an "outdoorsy" culture very deep in the community fabric. They also invest alot in the arts, and it shows.
Overrated:
1 & 2. Houston and Dallas. Yes, I realize these are quite different cities, and in some parts of the country they'd be 3 states away. But I do not get what the allure is of these cities. They are very sprawlish, and hell to get around. Plus, while there are pockets of gentrification, the cities are way too "new" for my liking. Good restaurants in both, however. Now I know there are some Texas zealots on the board, and please don't bother rebutting my points. My perception is my perception, and the only way it changes are by more visits.
3. Orlando. I can't get myself to like Orlando, and I try. I guess people assume that the weather is great (and in the winter it is) but a city has to have more than that going for it. With Disney's influence, it strikes me as artificial and expensive.
Dec 14th, 2002, 06:02 PM
#98
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DSS and me:
I agree with both of you. It is nice to see that there are some people on this board with a head on their shoulders. I lived in SF for about 8 years during the late 80's - mid 90's. When I first moved there I thought it was not abad place. But after a while I just hated the cold summers and listening to street people wheeling shopping carts on the sidewalk outside of my building full of bottles and cans at 2:00 in the morning.
I now live in Philadelphia and think it is a great city. Lots of great restaurants, culture, and of course history, a clean downtown (unlike downtown SF).
I highly recommedn Philadelphia as a both a vacation destination and a place to live. The proximity to New York City is also a plus.
I agree with both of you. It is nice to see that there are some people on this board with a head on their shoulders. I lived in SF for about 8 years during the late 80's - mid 90's. When I first moved there I thought it was not abad place. But after a while I just hated the cold summers and listening to street people wheeling shopping carts on the sidewalk outside of my building full of bottles and cans at 2:00 in the morning.
I now live in Philadelphia and think it is a great city. Lots of great restaurants, culture, and of course history, a clean downtown (unlike downtown SF).
I highly recommedn Philadelphia as a both a vacation destination and a place to live. The proximity to New York City is also a plus.
Dec 14th, 2002, 10:28 PM
#100
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Most Overrated: Portland (economic growth is stifled by growth constraints: best advice is to make your living elsewhere, like Dallas or Houston, and vacation in Portland/Oregon. Also, don't fool yourself, there were air quality alerts when I was there last summer), San Diego (nice, crowded, no true superlatives, and yes the weather can be cool and foggy in the spring), Seattle (bridge gridlock, bums, and all wet), Orlando (like Las Vegas without casinos, a faux city created from swampland)
Most Underrated: Any city in Texas except Austin, which is just a hair away from overrated (hot, lacks the amenities of Houston or Dallas), Birmingham (beautiful environs, near mountains and great beaches), any city in New Mexico except Santa Fe, which is overrated (yuppie adobes, food that really doesn't taste that good, and overpriced art), San Franciso (urine soaked streets and more bums than park benches).
Most Underrated: Any city in Texas except Austin, which is just a hair away from overrated (hot, lacks the amenities of Houston or Dallas), Birmingham (beautiful environs, near mountains and great beaches), any city in New Mexico except Santa Fe, which is overrated (yuppie adobes, food that really doesn't taste that good, and overpriced art), San Franciso (urine soaked streets and more bums than park benches).
