StuDudley

>>"Do-City" barbershop and, if memory does not fail me, also a "Do-City" BBQ<<

You have an excellent memory. We always thought that "Do" was short for DivisaderO.

Stu Dudley

ilovetotravel29

Stu--I really just think we are coming from very different perspectives. I used to live very close to you and when I was growing up, I remember loving all the "painted ladies". I also remember that my neighborhood was far more diverse and friendly. Now, it is nothing even remotely close to what it used to be.

I agree that crime laden areas are not good for a city.

I do not agree with gentrification and kicking out the poor to make more room for those of higher income. My friends and I all discuss that the city is not what it used to be....I think the latest stats on SF being a very non kid-friendly city is part of what makes it different.

We can discuss the "redevelopment" of the Divisadero and Fillmore areas and how that took out a lot of the diversity of the city.

I think that because you give tours and things like that, your perspective may be very, very different from mine. I am viewing things as a native SF-er, non-home owner, and a person of color....and that could lend us to have very different ideas of what is good and bad for the city.

To me, they could have cleaned up Hayes Valley without inputting overpriced lingerie stores, a saki store, and overpriced eyewear.....to me, non of those stores really reflect myself or my neighbors who live in that area. I agree that tearing down the projects was good, but they could have left some of the ethnic heritage of the neighborhood.

esm

Ronda, great report. Now I somehow have to fit in a trip to take one of the tours.

ilovetotravel29

Stu---I also notice that you say a lot of changed and gentrified neighborhoods are more "enjoyable" now....would you agree that they could have made these areas more enjoyable without gentrification? What if in the Mission, instead of massive selling of houses, evictions, etc. that pushed many families out (the dot com area was very scarey for renters like myself), they instead did more to stop crime while letting the decent and hardworking families still reside there?

I just find it so disheartening that "redevelopment" often includes massive removal of people, only to raise the rents for new people to move in, and then voila! suddenly there is adequate police support and the neighborhood becomes safer. Sigh.......

I love the houses and the scenery of the city, and for all its aesthetic changes, I think far too many people have had to leave this place because of its hostile attitude towards some of its natives.

StuDudley

Ilovetotravel

I was only commenting on your statement about the City loosing it's "beauty" - and I intrepreted that to mean the physical beauty.

I agree with almost all your comments, observations, and opinions about diversity and gentrification. Unfortunatly, I don't have a solution that will maintain a "correct" (whatever that means) balance. I don't think anyone else has either - but San Francisco is perhaps doing a better job than most other cities.

Stu Dudley

Ronda

I enjoyed your discussion on SF and was surprised to check this morning and see 24 posts on this mini report.

I didn't mention, I really like go into churches. The church I enjoy the most in San Francisco is Notre Dame Des Victoires at 566 Bush Street right across from the Stockton St. Garage. It is a small church with beautiful stained glass.

I like to park on floor 4 or more in the garage and look across at the top of the church. A unique view of a church. I have been in the church when the organist is playing and it sounds wonderful.

They have a display showing how the church originally looked when built in 1856, how it looked after the earthquake (all but part of the facade fell down), and how it looks now. The church's facade is modeled after the Basilica of Notre Dame des Fourvieres in Lyon, France. Since I will be in Lyon in June, I will have to find the church.

There is a small picture on the following page of the SF church:

http://www.page-turnbull.com/organiz...re/notre1.html

And on rows 5 and 6 on the following photo page, the church in Lyon:

http://www.worldisround.com/articles/123502/index.html

Nina66

Ronda, thanks for the detailed trip report. I'm glad that my City was so good to you. The links that you added are a great addition.

We have yet to try Clementine's. Opinions have varied from several valued 'foodie' friends, from fabulous to horrible. I guess that with your good report, we will have to try it.

Stu...... As a native San Franciscian and a resident of Noe Valley since 1968, I would agree with most of your opinions of the various areas - except Noe Valley. This was such a peaceful, out of the way neighborhood with great shops and caring people and believe it or not .... parking.

Over the years it has become crowded, expensive, and has lost it's neighbor charm.

It has turned into a 'I've got mine, where is your's" type of mentality neighborhood. Million dollar plus homes are the norm, Range Rovers, BMW's etc.. I loved living her for many years, now I wish I could afford to move. Yeah, I know that my $27,500 house is worth a fortune, but where else can you live near SF for not that much less, and still enjoy the benefits of SF. I love the City, but I wish that I could love it as much as I did before.

Nina

bill_boy

It is refreshing to read a visitor reporting about a non-tourist restaurant like Clementine's in the Inner Richmond. This is a solid French Bistro, and it's a true locals destination. The oft-recommended, oft-repeated tourist dining places at Union Square are simply getting tiresome.

I'm glad that you also went out of your way to partake at Swan's.