John

The more I read the comments of the L.A. bashers on this forum, the more I wonder if they have ever lived in L.A. or if they have ever visited. And if they have, where in the world did they live or go.
I have to admit that I love the L.A. metropolitan area—quite unabashedly so. I haven’t lived here for some thirty years, but I visit several times a year, for extended periods of time (a month or more).
One thing the detractors need to understand is that L.A. is not a city like, say, Orlando or Cincinnati, or St. Louis. The L.A. basin is a modern city state (in all but political reality) with its own rules. If you play by the rules, you don’t get frustrated or hurt. For example, you know you’re going to get stuck in traffic. Bring lots of tapes, or CDs, or a dictating machine. That way you’ll stay calm and occupied. It’s silly to get excited, and it’s not going to get you anywhere more quickly. If traffic takes too long, pull off and go to a restaurant or watch a movie.
I don’t really think L.A. traffic has gotten all that much worse in the thirty years since I learned to drive on the Santa Ana Freeway (pre-I-5).
As I am typing this, I’m thinking back about some of the memorable experiences I’ve had here. They range from the mundane to the truly splendid, with every shade in between.
I love the restaurants and the great variety of foods the region has to offer, from simple taquitos and won tons to meals fit for an emperor. The best abalone I ever had crawled on the glass pane of the countertop cooler of the sushi bar, until I ordered it. I have enjoyed fresh fish and lobster right of the dories of the Newport pier, and I love to watch the Asian, black, and Hispanic fishermen fish off the ends of the piers late into the night. There’s a unique camaraderie here that makes this very special. I love shopping at Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Mexican markets (even the ethnic supermarkets have their attractions).
I love the truly world-class museums and theaters, the rather funky local art scene, and the superb performances at the Music Center. But I also enjoy watching the local amateur talent in Venice, the enthusiastic volley ball players at Hermosa Beach, or the rafts of surfers floating offshore like some strange primeval tribe. Ah, yes, and the music. Music is everywhere (and I don’t mean “muzak”).
I love the flowers, which seem to spring up spontaneously wherever a drop of water touches the soil. I never tire of marveling at tall rubber trees, monsteras, philodendrons, tree ferns, cacti, and all sorts of exotic flowers and vines which residents of colder climes get to meet only in their stunted greenhouse or conservatory incarnations. And above all wafts that marvelous aroma of eucalyptus. Which does not, of course, compare to the heavenly scent of orange trees in bloom! I am fortunate to have friends who let me pluck avocadoes, figs, and oranges right off their tree. . . . I still fondly remember the taste of my first cactus fruit.
I still remember the excitement I felt when I discovered my first California laurel in a shady canyon of Old Saddleback, when I saw my first cougar—sunning itself on a ledge above a housing development, and when I found my first cowrie shell at Dana Point. I love watching the hummingbirds buzz from flower to flower—at the height of winter.
I used to walk the rocky shore at night to marvel at a fluorescent surf breaking into myriad points of light—and stay to the dawn to watch the pelicans catch their breakfast.
I could go on for ever. Even now, when I think I know it all, I still discover something new every time I visit. There’s so much to do here, so many nooks and crannies to explore, one lifetime is not enough (and NOT just because the traffic slows you down).

Cindy

John,

I am truly glad you love LA, and I like your description. I assume millions of people do (or at least tolerate it), or they would move.

Yes, I have lived there, vacationed there, and taken too many business trips there. And sorry, I just don't like it at all. The traffic, coupled with the dependency on cars, is a real horror show. I live in the close-in Washington, D.C. suburbs now, and I like it fine. Traffic is horrid sometimes, and rush hour is a chore. But you know what? You don't have to drive. You can take the Metro subway. And I frequently walk to my local market and shops. My husband bikes to work downtown. In LA, I just couldn't handle the stress of doing everything I had to do to live, but also knowing I would probably encounter traffic jams in every direction so severe that it would be a better use of time to pull over and watch a movie.

But most important, LA just lacks character. When was the last time you walked down a street in LA and rested your eyes on different homes and quaint shops and marveled at the architecture, or even at how the buildings were different? Let's face it: too much of LA is strip malls, and I'm just not a fan.

I'm pleased, even envious, that you have such nice memories of LA. My most vivid memory was the summer air in 1984. My office was on about the 30th floor. Most days, I was actually above the smog. Yep, there was a brown blanket of brown gunk hanging in the air below me. My throat burned a lot, and my eyes were red. Not pleasant.

Gary

Cindy:

I can think of a dozen areas where I've stopped to admire the architecture: e.g. Larchmont, Westwood, Fairfax, Wilshire Boulevard, downtown (City Hall/Music Center/Union Station), Pasadena/Orange Grove and South Pasadena, Old Town Pasadena, Griffith Park/observatory/Greek Theatre, the Hollywood Bowl, the Colliseum/rose garden/Natural History Museum.

AND, as I mentioned on the other post, the smog is MUCH less a problem than it used to be--and if that's all we have to worry about, I'll take it.

Did you actually venture outside when you failed at living here?

michele

John,
I love your post.

Cindy, Los Angeles boasts some of the finest art deco architecture anywhere and is home to many Schindler, Nuetra, Greene and other modernists. It is a unique city, not for everybody , but I NEVER regret moving here from the East twenty years ago.

lisa

I live in DC and love it here, but I visited LA last summer for the first time and really enjoyed it, much more than I thought I would. I expected vapid-urban-arid-silicone-fake-overpriced-wasteland. But what I found was different. Maybe it has to do with expectations. I thought Griffith Park was really cool. I loved wandering through the funky shops along LaBrea -- little stores that specialize only in one thing but they do it with attitude (we don't have that so much here in DC). I love the cultural diversity (yes, we have good Asian restaurants here, but until I went to LA I never knew how good a meal at a taco stand could be). I got a kick out of the way the geography of the area plays with the city and its residents -- like the way the weather might be totally different 20 minutes away -- it was so cool at the beach and hot in the Valley. We stayed with friends who live in Manhattan Beach, and I could see why they enjoy the Hermosa Beach-Manhattan Beach area so much. The weather was beautiful, the beaches were huge and wide and lovely and uncrowded and displayed every manner of humanity imaginable, I liked the little "beach bungalow" architecture of the homes, I loved all the colorful foliage in the yards that was so different from what we have on the east coast, there were lots of great shops and restaurants within walking distance. That part of LA felt kind of like a small town to me. Would I ever want to live there? Probably not. But I really enjoyed visiting!

sorry

I respect everyone's opinion here and am happy that you enjoy L.A., but I just can't share your enthusiasm. Let me just say though, that the L.A. of 30 years ago bears no resemblance whatsoever to the L.A. of today.

I have lived and worked there, and what struck me most was the economic polarization -- filthy rich and dirt poor, and nothing in between. L.A. is a city of enclaves, where the wealthy put up gates and guards to keep the rest of the population out.

The rents are outrageous, the smog is terrible, the crime is out of control. Yes, 30 years ago it was lovely. Not today.

Cindy

Gee whiz, Gary. Now you've wounded me. I didn't "fail" at living in LA. I was quite successful at sitting in traffic. In fact, my stop-n-go skills are quite well honed. I just didn't like it for the reasons I describe. Why do you have to take it so personally and attack me personally? And yes, I got outside. That's when my eyes burned.

Anyway, these things really are a matter of perspective and experience. I grew up in the Phoenix area. Visiting LA was high living for us, so I thought I would move there as an adult. I realized my mistake, moved to San Francisco, and then on to D.C. So I liked LA when, um, I just didn't know any better. Once I saw San Francisco, my opinion changed in a hurry.

It's funny that LA folks are so defensive about this. You could try to trash DC all you want, and I wouldn't care that much. Anyway, I enjoyed the debate, and maybe I'll see you in Westwood or Venice Beach someday.

tom

the metropolitan LA area (maybe even including Orange County) is a collection of scores (if not hundreds) of neighborhoods, towns, and communities of incredible breadth & diversity...there is no single "LA community".

It's not unlike the old tale of 3 old blind men groping an elephant..the 1st man thinks it's a snake (he grabbed the tail). The 2nd thinks it's a tree (he grabbed the leg). I forget what the 3rd man thought. But you get the idea.

There are definitely parts I don't like, and would feel unsafe in. But there are also wonderful regions like Pasadena & So. Pas.

Lisa referred to her experiences in the Manhattan-Hermosa area. I've lived in that area for the 20-some years, and I happen to think it's one of the darn best area to live in the country. Townspeople & neighbors know one another. Shops, restaurants, markets within walking distance. Beautiful, temperate weather year round. Great public schools with involved parents. Very little crime. And No, we don't have gates & guards at the city limits.

I will concede that rents & house prices are expensive, but there are many parts of the country that are far worse. I also wish the lots were bigger sized, but I guess that's the tradeoff. If you want 100 acre lots with 5 miles to the nearest neighbor, one is free to go live in a plywood shack in Wyoming like Ted Kacinski (sp?) did.

So...shoo!.. stay away...pretend you didn't read this, and that I'm making it all up. Go on believing that all of LA Metro is exactly like the drab, gray, dreary urban stretch of Century Blvd from LAX to the 405 Fwy.

Tommy

I agree that if you live by the LA rules you can really love it here. When driving on the freeway, besides bringing cds, tapes and War and Peace, make sure the glass in your car is bulletproof. NEVER carry money on you in case you will get mugged. Always carry that trusty gas mask to protect from the brown air. Don't forget that suntan lotion to protect from the cancer. You don't need any walking shoes, but be sure them tires are in good shape. Don't forget that celebrity mask to get that table in that overpriced restaurant where EVERYBODY wants to be seen. Always carry that smile and the big hello, but remember - keep it simple. We don't like those brainy types here.

Get the picture?

John

Dear Tommy:
I think your getting your cities mixed up. You're talking about Miami, not L.A.

Gary

Dearest Cindy:

I did not take your posting "personally." It is simply that your description of the city is incorrect. You convinced me you don't like it, but why spoil it for those contemplating a visit? This is a travel forum. If somone wants to see L.A., why not point out the positive aspects, so they might enjoy the experience?

By the way, I wouldn't think of bashing your city, or any other for that matter. Even the steel-mill redneck Eastern town I grew up in had its positives.

Cal

All of this bashing is nothing more than sheer stupidity. If you do not like Los Angeles, then don't got there. However it does have a lot to offer the visitor and resident and some people like Los Angeles. I don't particularly like it or dislike it but it does have some neat places to see. However, we all have our own opinions based on our preferences. No opinion, regarding the merits of a particular location, is any more valid than another.

Having said all of that, I believe that Los Angeles does indeed offer many more positive things to do and see than the majority of other areas.

cherie

Lookout, guys, I'm a 4th Generation LA Native and I don't live there anymore. Sometimes, I miss it because of memories of fun times when the LA basin didn't have much smog. When I grew up there, I could stand on my front lawn and look up at the Hollywood sign (and see it without smog). I lived on a wide, 1940's - developed cookie cutter house street that I loved. We all knew eachother and it was safe to walk from home, up a mile, to get an ice cream cone at Baskin Robbins and no one was shooting at you. By the time we sold mom's house, there were helicopters overhead most nights looking for druggies. With time, neighborhoods shift, ethnic groups diversify blocks, and the world grows up....you know what they say, you can't go home again. I live up near Yosemite, now. We used to go here every year on vacations when I was a little kid in LA. Strange....when I went to Yosemite, the tents in the Housekeeping Camp were BIG. See what I mean about perspective? LA was different then, too. There were lots of neighborhoods that we used to walk through (or my dad delivered milk in) that today represent a threat. But in those days, LA was smaller and we used to walk around and admire what each nieghborhood's charm was. East Side-West Side-Beach Towns-Foothills....theres lots there, its just harder to get to....and don't be surprised if you old favorite spot in thrown down and rebuilt as a Mall. Yikes.

Cindy

Here's a theory about why LA seems to draw more than its fair share of negative comments. Clearly, LA has some nice things going for it, as evidenced by the previous posts. Clearly, there are many more horrible places to live in the US than LA. Many, many more. So why all the LA bashing?

Well, I have read that the most expensive US city is Honolulu. The second most expensive is San Francisco. Obviously, these two places are magical. Most of us rave about them, and we love to visit there. They really seem to have a very special mix. As a result, prices (particularly for housing) are through the roof, but you get to live in paradise, so it's a tradeoff many feel is worth making.

I have read that LA is the third most expensive city. I think most people who like LA wouldn't necessarily describe it as "magical" or "paradise" like SF or Honolulu, although apparently some folks do. So maybe LA gets bashed because it is very expensive, and some might feel that the experience doesn't justify the high price.

Please don't bristle. This was just an attempt to be thought-provoking.

John

But parts of L.A. are very INEXPENSIVE--and not less beautiful for that!

Ed

So John, tell me the NAMES of these inexpensive but beautiful areas?!?

Kip

"Positive aspects" about LA. My God, you must be straight out of Camarillo.
You just take one ugly concrete mini mall and duplicate it by say 500,000 and you have LA's building style. Add 10 million plus cars driving the 1 block to their nearby mini mall to scarf down Mrs Fields cookies and you go LA culture.

Arnie

If Los Angeles is so great then why is it rated BELOW such wonderful spots as Milwaukee, Houston, St Louis and Pittsburgh on the Deja news poll for travelers? This was a poll done for travel and tens of thousands of people have answered it. See http://www.deja.com/channels/channel.xp?CID=11672

John

It sounds to me that all those folks bitching about L.A. have NEVER visited that splendid city.

sensing

John, if L.A. is so fabulous why don't you explain to everyone exactly why you left it?