Kauai helicopter crash
Sep 24th, 2005, 02:54 PM
#21
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My personal theory is that it's even more dangerous to take helicopter tours on the Hawaiian islands because of the sudden changes in air conditions and climate, especially on the wet sides of the islands.
I also believe that it's a combination of psychology ("I've flown through worse, so I'll survive this") and trying to make as much money as possible in less-than-great flying conditions (which is really not great customer service anyway).
I also believe that it's a combination of psychology ("I've flown through worse, so I'll survive this") and trying to make as much money as possible in less-than-great flying conditions (which is really not great customer service anyway).
Sep 24th, 2005, 05:08 PM
#22
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sad news from Kauai. Three individuals involved in the Heli-USA Chopper crash yesterday on the North end of the island, near Kee Beach did not survive. The pilot and a couple were able to swim to shore where they were rescued but tragically, two women and a man did not survive. Another Heli-USA chopper had to make an emergency landing near the same area shortly thereafter. From the news, it sounds like fast moving weather/wind shear were the cause. Interestingly, other tour helicopters were grounded yesterday due to weather. We were wondering why the Heli-USA flights went out. So sad.
My husband and I took an Air Kauai tour (helicopter) the day before and it was definitely the highlight of our trip. Despite knowing of this crash and others in past years, we would do it again.
http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/24/news/story2.html
My husband and I took an Air Kauai tour (helicopter) the day before and it was definitely the highlight of our trip. Despite knowing of this crash and others in past years, we would do it again.
http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/24/news/story2.html
Sep 24th, 2005, 05:10 PM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"But I have to wonder how many of these accidents are due to inherent design problems with helicopters, and how many are due to sheer stupidity on the part of tour operators and pilots."
There are many documented accidents with helicopters at Grand canyon and most other areas with phenomenal views. Who knows if its downdrafts, or people asking for a little closer look, pilot stupidity (??) or passenger stupidity.
There are many documented accidents with helicopters at Grand canyon and most other areas with phenomenal views. Who knows if its downdrafts, or people asking for a little closer look, pilot stupidity (??) or passenger stupidity.
Sep 24th, 2005, 05:49 PM
#24
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have very stong acrophobia. I am almost afraid to go out on my kitchen deck which is 25 feet above the ground.
I took a helicopter tour in Kauai. I was not afraid. It seemed that the pilot was in complete control, moving us up and down in the canyons and above the surf. delicately using is little finger (!!)
I would do it again.
I took a helicopter tour in Kauai. I was not afraid. It seemed that the pilot was in complete control, moving us up and down in the canyons and above the surf. delicately using is little finger (!!)
I would do it again.
Sep 25th, 2005, 03:16 PM
#25
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On our first trip to Hawaii, 1998, a gentleman from the FAA told us how they came in a couple of years prior and shut down all of the heli tour companies for faulty maintainance records. He felt at that time that they cleaned up their act but they essentially weren't that safe and he would never fly them. The young women who worked in the concierge room, chimed in and said, "we think that the tourists are brave because none of us locals would ever fly in them". She said that her father had to fly in helicoptors for law enforcement and he hated them. He felt that with wind sheer, weather currents, etc that they were not safe. I am not a timid person, but I would not take a helicopter tour.
Sep 25th, 2005, 03:49 PM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We did a helicopter tour in Maui last May with Blue Hawaiian, who I see is on Rusty's list. I have to say that the ride was super smooth and I was glad I did it. Not so sure if I'd do it again, though, after reading that list!
We did not do the helicopter in Kauai b/c I heard so many stories about crashes there. Since I was traveling without my kids, I felt it would be taking a too much of a risk. After seeing the spectacular Na Pali coastline by catamaran (and feeling queasy), I figured if there was a next time and my kids were grown, I'd love to see the view from the helicopter. But threads like this have me second guessing that, too...
We did not do the helicopter in Kauai b/c I heard so many stories about crashes there. Since I was traveling without my kids, I felt it would be taking a too much of a risk. After seeing the spectacular Na Pali coastline by catamaran (and feeling queasy), I figured if there was a next time and my kids were grown, I'd love to see the view from the helicopter. But threads like this have me second guessing that, too...
Sep 25th, 2005, 04:10 PM
#27
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW, I used to work for a law firm that represented helicopter manufacturers in product liability actions (i.e. lawsuits alleging a crash was caused by faulty design of the helicopter or some component of it). The senior partner of the firm, who had handled many, many of these cases over the years, recommended against a helicopter flight when I told him I was going to Hawaii. His words, "you couldn't pay me enough to go up in a helicopter."
I went anyway.
I went anyway.
Sep 25th, 2005, 04:12 PM
#28
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Friday's Hilo newspaper had an article that said one helicopter company was falsifying the passengers weights on flights to fit more people on and to put less fuel. Someone from the company blew the whistle, was fired and is now suing. How many other companies do the same thing? I live here and I wouldn't ride 'em.
Sep 25th, 2005, 04:32 PM
#29
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've certainly seen these posts in the past. I've watched this post while backing away from comment. How easy to say, to judge, to condemn a person, a company, an industry. I myself am at a loss and mourn those lost as well as those who will recover their survival.
This I know. There are a whole lotta copters flying in Kauai. They are usually flying clockwise W-N-E-S in the same direction everyday, seeing the same sights and droning to tourists like me about the canyon and the coast and the crater.
If you flew around every day in circles...it is a tough job filled with very hazardous wind and weather conditions...a very tough atmosphere for the most qualified of pilots.
I would immediately want to blame Heli USA for having two passenger flights out. However, I have read no proof that no one else was flying as some have insinuated. If they were the only two tourist copters out there, then someone who makes the final choice should be awake for many nights to come for making a commercial decision and a case for manslaughter/negligence. But I have found no proof that they were the only two copters.
I applaud the second pilot for safely landing in a desolute area.
Would I take a heli tour again...maybe if I didn't prefer what I feel is much safer trike flying. But the industry, although competitive is growing and learning. Gone are the days of the Vietnamvet doing dangerous manueveres.
(although I selfishly wish I could fly with one of those pilots, that knew the wind and flew wild)
But now are the days of perhaps too many copters in the sky circling.
I'm sure, this recent crash will force authorities to once again look at the safety of their highest commodity...the tourist.
While people say, he said, she said, their to blame.......I wish the pilots and the victims and their families peace. Realize helicopter travel has always been dangerous. That fact has not changed.
G'Lou
This I know. There are a whole lotta copters flying in Kauai. They are usually flying clockwise W-N-E-S in the same direction everyday, seeing the same sights and droning to tourists like me about the canyon and the coast and the crater.
If you flew around every day in circles...it is a tough job filled with very hazardous wind and weather conditions...a very tough atmosphere for the most qualified of pilots.
I would immediately want to blame Heli USA for having two passenger flights out. However, I have read no proof that no one else was flying as some have insinuated. If they were the only two tourist copters out there, then someone who makes the final choice should be awake for many nights to come for making a commercial decision and a case for manslaughter/negligence. But I have found no proof that they were the only two copters.
I applaud the second pilot for safely landing in a desolute area.
Would I take a heli tour again...maybe if I didn't prefer what I feel is much safer trike flying. But the industry, although competitive is growing and learning. Gone are the days of the Vietnamvet doing dangerous manueveres.
(although I selfishly wish I could fly with one of those pilots, that knew the wind and flew wild)
But now are the days of perhaps too many copters in the sky circling.
I'm sure, this recent crash will force authorities to once again look at the safety of their highest commodity...the tourist.
While people say, he said, she said, their to blame.......I wish the pilots and the victims and their families peace. Realize helicopter travel has always been dangerous. That fact has not changed.
G'Lou
Sep 26th, 2005, 02:06 AM
#30
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gyppielou: The article referenced by Orcas mentions a 460% increase in the number of accidents since 1996. This has to be more than just random bad luck. Tour companies in spite of all their rhetoric to the contrary are obviously putting profit before safety, and there's no excuse for that.
Sep 26th, 2005, 07:20 PM
#31
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sep 28th, 2005, 08:44 AM
#32
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Article from today's Garden Island newspaper regarding the recent heli crash:
http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2...ews/news02.txt
The quote from Chuck di Piazza -- owner of Air Kaua`i -- regarding his company's commitment to safety, is why that's the only heli company with which I flew, or recommended.
http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2...ews/news02.txt
The quote from Chuck di Piazza -- owner of Air Kaua`i -- regarding his company's commitment to safety, is why that's the only heli company with which I flew, or recommended.
Sep 28th, 2005, 11:19 AM
#33
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally wouldn't be disappointed if they were all grounded on Kauai. My husband, two friends of ours and I tried to hike the Kalalau Trail to see the Na Pali Coast and I found the constant buzzing of helicopters very annoying and out of place next to the beauty of the scenery. And if you're wondering why I said "tried," it's because the weather was bad and we turned back rather than risk it, although it didn't seem to deter the helicopter tours.
Sep 28th, 2005, 01:59 PM
#34
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We were in Hawaii when these accidents happened, 3 people passed in the Kauai crash, the pilot and 2 other tourists survived.
We flew into Honolulu on the morning the 2 planes were struck by lightening, I am so glad I did not hear the news as we probably would not have flown that day
Our flight was fine.
I seem to remember there we 18 helicopter deaths in Hawaii in one year several years ago.... I would never fly in one of those planes, I'm way too chicken.
We flew into Honolulu on the morning the 2 planes were struck by lightening, I am so glad I did not hear the news as we probably would not have flown that day
Our flight was fine.I seem to remember there we 18 helicopter deaths in Hawaii in one year several years ago.... I would never fly in one of those planes, I'm way too chicken.
Sep 28th, 2005, 05:30 PM
#35
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting link, Auntie. I found this comment most interesting:
"He said another area of safety concerns were helicopter companies whose owners and operators offer "incentives" to pilots to complete their 45-minute tours ahead of schedule, to save money on parts maintenance.".
"He said another area of safety concerns were helicopter companies whose owners and operators offer "incentives" to pilots to complete their 45-minute tours ahead of schedule, to save money on parts maintenance.".
Sep 28th, 2005, 07:52 PM
#36
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have taken three helicopter tours in Hawaii. One with Air Kauai, one this past May with Inter-Island and one with Blue Hawaiian. I loved them all, especially the Inter-Island with no doors.
I saw the posting of the list of accidents but didn't see the ratio as to how many flights have flown and not crashed. As for the rising incidence of accidents, I believe more and more people are travelling to Hawaii. Unfortunately, this can result in companies trying to take advantage etc.
Common sense would tell you, (and it's written about in one of my travel books) to check out the helicopter companies safety record, how long they've been in business and to ask how much experience your pilot has. Although, even with all this info you could still crash, but... you could have an amazing time and a memory to last a lifetime.
Hopefully the result of this terrible accident will be an increase in safety and accountability.
I saw the posting of the list of accidents but didn't see the ratio as to how many flights have flown and not crashed. As for the rising incidence of accidents, I believe more and more people are travelling to Hawaii. Unfortunately, this can result in companies trying to take advantage etc.
Common sense would tell you, (and it's written about in one of my travel books) to check out the helicopter companies safety record, how long they've been in business and to ask how much experience your pilot has. Although, even with all this info you could still crash, but... you could have an amazing time and a memory to last a lifetime.
Hopefully the result of this terrible accident will be an increase in safety and accountability.
Sep 28th, 2005, 10:50 PM
#37
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My wife and I took a helicopter tour of Kauai on Tuesday (Safari Tours), then on Friday we hiked the Napali Coast. On our descent from the highest point of the hike, the skies opened up and we were caught in a major rain storm, along with what seemed like dozens of other hikers, most less capable hikers than we are.
We had a harrownig journey back to sea level as the mountains drained the water, most of it raging down the trail we were traversing. Some of the hikers we passed were clinging to trees, trying not to be knocked off the trail.
We heard a steady drone of helicopters but were more concerned with our own safety than what the choppers might be doing (although it did seem strange that they would be flying around in a deluge).
Even though we were safe at sea level, we were still stranded because the road was blocked by the Limahuli Stream which had risen so high that it was a torrent across the road. It was an incovenience to us, but it was a real problem for the rescue vehicles stuck on the other side of it. It was at that point that we learned of the helicopter crash. At that time, we thought that five had survived and one was unresponsive. Turned out that was wishful thinking. It also turned out that the rescue was completed solely by the rescue helicopters that we had heard and some boats that had made it to the area.
We met a lot of people on the island, and we wonder who the victims were (so far only one has been identified). A very sad day.
We had a harrownig journey back to sea level as the mountains drained the water, most of it raging down the trail we were traversing. Some of the hikers we passed were clinging to trees, trying not to be knocked off the trail.
We heard a steady drone of helicopters but were more concerned with our own safety than what the choppers might be doing (although it did seem strange that they would be flying around in a deluge).
Even though we were safe at sea level, we were still stranded because the road was blocked by the Limahuli Stream which had risen so high that it was a torrent across the road. It was an incovenience to us, but it was a real problem for the rescue vehicles stuck on the other side of it. It was at that point that we learned of the helicopter crash. At that time, we thought that five had survived and one was unresponsive. Turned out that was wishful thinking. It also turned out that the rescue was completed solely by the rescue helicopters that we had heard and some boats that had made it to the area.
We met a lot of people on the island, and we wonder who the victims were (so far only one has been identified). A very sad day.
Sep 29th, 2005, 07:50 AM
#39
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The three fatalities were visitors from the mainland. Here's the latest news, from today's Honolulu Star-Bulletin:
http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/29/news/story10.html
Very glad to know that you completed your hike safely -- but disappointed (again) that Parks officials didn't have someone positioned at the trailhead to warn hikers of the day's weather forecast ("heavy rain with thunderstorms by early afternoon").
http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/29/news/story10.html
Very glad to know that you completed your hike safely -- but disappointed (again) that Parks officials didn't have someone positioned at the trailhead to warn hikers of the day's weather forecast ("heavy rain with thunderstorms by early afternoon").
Sep 29th, 2005, 11:51 AM
#40
According to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel this morning, the 68-year-old man who died took his wife to Hawaii for their 45th wedding anniversary; she didn't go on the helicopter ride; his daughter and son-in-law did; they survived.
Scary -- when I searched for "helicopter crash", a thread from last year came up that was very similar; it does sound like it happens fairly "regularly".
Scary -- when I searched for "helicopter crash", a thread from last year came up that was very similar; it does sound like it happens fairly "regularly".
