Kailua Oahu
Apr 2nd, 2007, 07:15 AM
#21
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If "destroying the residential character of Kailua" means more great restaurants, more fun boutiques, better park facilities, and prettier landscaped areas, then I agree with you 110% Malana. We all really miss playing in those dusty dirt parks, shopping for all of our groceries at the run-down Foodland, and having to drive clear across the island to buy almost anything.
And the worst change is the fact that those tourists get to enjoy Kailua's world-class beach while we are working! That's Just Not Fair!
"He who rejects change is the architect of decay."
And the worst change is the fact that those tourists get to enjoy Kailua's world-class beach while we are working! That's Just Not Fair!
"He who rejects change is the architect of decay."
Apr 2nd, 2007, 11:05 AM
#22
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The county - through the people elected by the public - desides what is legal and what is illegal in Kailua. It is not for us (well, me - a visitor) to decide that I want to break the law because staying close to Kailua beach is great. To people who say the illegals pay all the same taxes - really? Do the "residential" areas (which do not allow vacation rentals) pay the same property taxes as the areas zoned "resort" or "commercial"? I would be greatly surprised if they did.
Breaking the law is still breaking the law, even if it's justified by "I won't get caught" or "as long as I'm happy" or "it's not my problem" or "I don't believe in the law anyway." I suppose you just can't force some people to have a conscience.
Breaking the law is still breaking the law, even if it's justified by "I won't get caught" or "as long as I'm happy" or "it's not my problem" or "I don't believe in the law anyway." I suppose you just can't force some people to have a conscience.
Apr 3rd, 2007, 06:52 AM
#23
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The island of Oahu is the state's most populous and most diverse island in the whole archipelago. But apart from a handful of very high-end resorts all the hotels are squeezed into a concentrated ghetto called Waikiki. On the other side of the island is Kailua - a gem of a town with cool ocean breezes and one of the best beaches in the country. But no hotels. Now a noisy bunch of NIMBYs are trying to keep tourists out of their neighborhood - but have never once explained what serious problems they are causing. These are expensive homes - if a homeowner who can't quite afford the mortgage doesn't run a B&B then she will likely have to rent out a room or two long-term which I believe would cause bigger problems - more commuters driving over the hill to Honolulu every morning being the biggest issue.
But by all means stay cooped up in Waikiki when you come visiting - leave paradise to the rest of us!
But by all means stay cooped up in Waikiki when you come visiting - leave paradise to the rest of us!
Apr 3rd, 2007, 01:19 PM
#24
bob- you are incorrect. There ARE legal B&Bs in Kailua. Please come and patronize them.
There are also lots of illegals. Lots and lots of em. The serious damage? The neighbors have to put up with strangers, new ones every night, who have no interest in the character of the neighborhood, whooping it up at the pool till all hours, infringing on the homeowners who bought a home within their means and don't WANT to live in a commercial zone.
Where do you live? How would you feel if I built a hotel next door? or a gas station? or a chicken farm?
Change can be good. Illegal rentals are bad.
There are also lots of illegals. Lots and lots of em. The serious damage? The neighbors have to put up with strangers, new ones every night, who have no interest in the character of the neighborhood, whooping it up at the pool till all hours, infringing on the homeowners who bought a home within their means and don't WANT to live in a commercial zone.
Where do you live? How would you feel if I built a hotel next door? or a gas station? or a chicken farm?
Change can be good. Illegal rentals are bad.
Apr 4th, 2007, 07:48 AM
#25
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I wish that you had read my posts a little more closely, you would have seen that I got much of my information from the proprietor of one of the b&bs (actually a TVU) that was grandfathered in when the county inexplicably stopped granting b&bs - leaving most tourists stranded in the Waikiki ghetto instead of experiencing what Oahu is really about.
This legal operator thinks that the county created this problem by not allowing ANY new b&bs for over 10 years now. As for the noise issues you mention - I've spent enough time in Kailua over the years to know that most of the rowdiest parties aren't hosted by tourist families who usually know no one to invite; they are hosted by renters and by kids whose parents are away. Kailua is infamous for those kinds of parties - and if you force b&b owners to switch to long-term rentals, you'll see many more of those noisy events.
If you really want to see meaningful change, you should lobby the county to pair responsible growth on b&b licenses in tandem with responsible oversight. Because this whole situation has been caused by the county's misguided decision to stop granted much-needed licenses over a decade ago. Hawaii is a tourist economy, as is Kailua (much as you want to ignore it). And I find your desperate desire that the tourists stay on their side of the tracks awfully un-Hawaiian.
This legal operator thinks that the county created this problem by not allowing ANY new b&bs for over 10 years now. As for the noise issues you mention - I've spent enough time in Kailua over the years to know that most of the rowdiest parties aren't hosted by tourist families who usually know no one to invite; they are hosted by renters and by kids whose parents are away. Kailua is infamous for those kinds of parties - and if you force b&b owners to switch to long-term rentals, you'll see many more of those noisy events.
If you really want to see meaningful change, you should lobby the county to pair responsible growth on b&b licenses in tandem with responsible oversight. Because this whole situation has been caused by the county's misguided decision to stop granted much-needed licenses over a decade ago. Hawaii is a tourist economy, as is Kailua (much as you want to ignore it). And I find your desperate desire that the tourists stay on their side of the tracks awfully un-Hawaiian.
Apr 4th, 2007, 11:26 AM
#27
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Am I supposed to believe that residential neighborhoods are noisy and disruptive, while tourists are meek and quiet at night (if that were the case, Waikiki would be as quiet as a mouse)? And that rental housing shortage for local families is ok because they'd just make noise anyway? So vacation rentals on ag or conservation land would be ok too, because the kalo farms or a'eo are not as "worthy" as tourists?
And that people living in Hawaii don't get to make that decision for themselves, through validly-enacted laws and regulations?
By the way, I stayed at a legal B&B, and they were very disturbed by the rise of illegals - they cause a backlash from the locals against all B&B's, create hostility against tourists, destroy the residential, agricultural, or other character if the land, and they get a free ride off the legal ones that actually pay taxes. Just because an illegal vacation rental charges its guests the state GE and hotel tax, that doesn't mean they are paying that tax back to the State instead of pocketing it. People who thinking it's ok to violate zoning laws at will probably don't think much about violating tax laws either.
And that people living in Hawaii don't get to make that decision for themselves, through validly-enacted laws and regulations?
By the way, I stayed at a legal B&B, and they were very disturbed by the rise of illegals - they cause a backlash from the locals against all B&B's, create hostility against tourists, destroy the residential, agricultural, or other character if the land, and they get a free ride off the legal ones that actually pay taxes. Just because an illegal vacation rental charges its guests the state GE and hotel tax, that doesn't mean they are paying that tax back to the State instead of pocketing it. People who thinking it's ok to violate zoning laws at will probably don't think much about violating tax laws either.
Apr 4th, 2007, 06:50 PM
#29
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Aloha 'oe: May you be loved or greeted.
Aloha kaua: May there be friendship or love between us.
Aloha kakou: Same as above, but to more than one person.
NIMBY: Not In My BackYard. Keep the "noisy and disruptive" tourists out of my subdivision, because my skin crawls to think that the people paying for my way of life might actually want to enjoy the greener side of the island. Why can't they just mail us a check and stay home?
I don't know about B&Bs on "conservation lands". Check the title of the post - and then show me where in Kailua I can find some of these taro farms you're worried about.
Aloha kaua: May there be friendship or love between us.
Aloha kakou: Same as above, but to more than one person.
NIMBY: Not In My BackYard. Keep the "noisy and disruptive" tourists out of my subdivision, because my skin crawls to think that the people paying for my way of life might actually want to enjoy the greener side of the island. Why can't they just mail us a check and stay home?
I don't know about B&Bs on "conservation lands". Check the title of the post - and then show me where in Kailua I can find some of these taro farms you're worried about.
Apr 4th, 2007, 11:10 PM
#30
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Zoning in Hawaii is controlled in large part by the State of Hawaii itself. The illegality of vacation rentals in Kailua is NOT controlled by NIMBY Kailuans - they don't have THAT much power over the entire State.
The issuance of zoning variances that would allow a vacation rental to operate in Kailua is controlled by the City and County of Honolulu. Perhaps you do not realize that the C&C of Honolulu is the ENTIRE ISLAND of Oahu. Again, Kailua residents are not THAT powerful that they can control the entire C&C of Honolulu.
My point is, the decision to not allow vacation rentals in Kailua is made on both a state-wide and island-wide basis; it is NOT up to the Kailuans alone to decide, so NIMBY-ism is not the reason. The State and the County made that decision as one voice.
The conservation and agriculture lands that are being used for illegal vacation rentals are happening on all the islands. This is not an isolated incident, and the problem goes beyond just Kailua or just Oahu. Please read the thread on the Hawaii DLNR's crackdown on illegal rentals on Kauai for an example.
It's obvious that you don't believe the people of the State of Hawaii or the C&C of Honolulu have the right to determine zoning for themselves. Fine. You can believe whatever you want. But it's equally obvious that the people of Hawaii and the various counties feel differently. And the bottom line is, they get to decide.
The issuance of zoning variances that would allow a vacation rental to operate in Kailua is controlled by the City and County of Honolulu. Perhaps you do not realize that the C&C of Honolulu is the ENTIRE ISLAND of Oahu. Again, Kailua residents are not THAT powerful that they can control the entire C&C of Honolulu.
My point is, the decision to not allow vacation rentals in Kailua is made on both a state-wide and island-wide basis; it is NOT up to the Kailuans alone to decide, so NIMBY-ism is not the reason. The State and the County made that decision as one voice.
The conservation and agriculture lands that are being used for illegal vacation rentals are happening on all the islands. This is not an isolated incident, and the problem goes beyond just Kailua or just Oahu. Please read the thread on the Hawaii DLNR's crackdown on illegal rentals on Kauai for an example.
It's obvious that you don't believe the people of the State of Hawaii or the C&C of Honolulu have the right to determine zoning for themselves. Fine. You can believe whatever you want. But it's equally obvious that the people of Hawaii and the various counties feel differently. And the bottom line is, they get to decide.
Apr 5th, 2007, 06:47 AM
#31
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I don't know why you keep bringing up conservation land as an issue - Kailua is as far from a rural area as I can imagine. It is a residential bedroom community with a good retail infrastructure and an absolutely spectacular beach. No state parks other than the beach park. No wildlife areas other than a useless marsh that no one plans to build on. No farming other than some picturesque backyard coconut, mango, and papaya trees.
But I think that I understand where you are going with your explanation. If the b&b "problem" is as widespread in Kailua as you describe, and the people of Kailua are as powerless to impact zoning as you describe, then I think it is our responsibility as freedom-loving Americans to stand up for the individual and support the b&b owners against the power-mad City and County. What do they know about Kailua? Its certainly become a better place to live since more tourists started pumping money into the local economy - allowing more shops and restaurants to succeed. Where would local entrepreneurs like Kalapawai Market and Naish Hawaii be without the tourist trade? And how bad would that morning commute over the Pali be if those late-rising tourists were all replaced by 9-5 Honolulu workers living in Kailua rentals?
I for one plan on doing my part to help out Kailua: I'll visit with my family; I'll take kiteboarding and kayaking lessons from the beach park; I'll enjoy breakfast at Boots & Kimo's and snacks at Island snow; I'll dance the night away at Muddy Waters. I'll have a spectacular time and be confident that I'm supporting the local Kailuans and sticking it to the Man at the same time.
Thanks for putting everything in perspective.
But I think that I understand where you are going with your explanation. If the b&b "problem" is as widespread in Kailua as you describe, and the people of Kailua are as powerless to impact zoning as you describe, then I think it is our responsibility as freedom-loving Americans to stand up for the individual and support the b&b owners against the power-mad City and County. What do they know about Kailua? Its certainly become a better place to live since more tourists started pumping money into the local economy - allowing more shops and restaurants to succeed. Where would local entrepreneurs like Kalapawai Market and Naish Hawaii be without the tourist trade? And how bad would that morning commute over the Pali be if those late-rising tourists were all replaced by 9-5 Honolulu workers living in Kailua rentals?
I for one plan on doing my part to help out Kailua: I'll visit with my family; I'll take kiteboarding and kayaking lessons from the beach park; I'll enjoy breakfast at Boots & Kimo's and snacks at Island snow; I'll dance the night away at Muddy Waters. I'll have a spectacular time and be confident that I'm supporting the local Kailuans and sticking it to the Man at the same time.
Thanks for putting everything in perspective.
Apr 5th, 2007, 08:39 AM
#32
Oh yeah, you da man!!!!
You can keep supporting the effort to turn Kailua into another "tourist ghetto" (your words) because that's what YOU want.
Screw the local residents. Your needs are much more important than yours.
And you are so much smarter than all of them and us, too
"Useless marsh"...I gotta let the hundreds of people who are "friends of Kawainui Marsh" hear that one...
S-d H-le
You can keep supporting the effort to turn Kailua into another "tourist ghetto" (your words) because that's what YOU want.
Screw the local residents. Your needs are much more important than yours.
And you are so much smarter than all of them and us, too
"Useless marsh"...I gotta let the hundreds of people who are "friends of Kawainui Marsh" hear that one...
S-d H-le
Apr 5th, 2007, 09:13 AM
#34
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Stupid haole? Your arguments don't make any sense so you resort to name-calling? Well I guess I should just give up and go home, then.
The city council made a stupid ruling over a decade ago stopping ALL new B&Bs. B&Bs are good things - they are an affordable choice for tourists that gives them a better perspective of Hawaii than staying in a corporate-owned hotel would, while helping b&b operators defray the expensive mortgages that often come along with living in such an expensive place as Hawaii. The State government clearly agrees with me: they demand transient and excise taxes from b&b operators, and have refused to share that tax info with the city & county which wants to shut the b&bs down. No tourist has ever been arrested or charged with anything for patronizing an unlicensed b&b - and they won't. There's no law against it.
So why don't you focus your energies on stopping construction in protected wilderness areas in Kauai? Because no one's building B&Bs in Kawainui Marsh, and all of your protesting is starting to sound just like a busybody neighbor who doesn't like what the lady down the street is doing with her property.
The city council made a stupid ruling over a decade ago stopping ALL new B&Bs. B&Bs are good things - they are an affordable choice for tourists that gives them a better perspective of Hawaii than staying in a corporate-owned hotel would, while helping b&b operators defray the expensive mortgages that often come along with living in such an expensive place as Hawaii. The State government clearly agrees with me: they demand transient and excise taxes from b&b operators, and have refused to share that tax info with the city & county which wants to shut the b&bs down. No tourist has ever been arrested or charged with anything for patronizing an unlicensed b&b - and they won't. There's no law against it.
So why don't you focus your energies on stopping construction in protected wilderness areas in Kauai? Because no one's building B&Bs in Kawainui Marsh, and all of your protesting is starting to sound just like a busybody neighbor who doesn't like what the lady down the street is doing with her property.
Apr 5th, 2007, 09:48 AM
#36
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bobludlow--you've only stayed once in a Kailua B+B but you're vehemently pushing your opinion on a travel board to Hawaii residents who work in real estate & law, some of whom live in the area. and then you make offensive comments, assuming to know what is Hawaiian and un-Hawaiian? What makes you more knowledgeable than a resident who knows the laws, the neighborhoods, and its people?
Apr 5th, 2007, 10:23 AM
#37
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If you could tell me in a few words, what stops "those in power" from going onto VRBO, etc., finding out who's renting their property illegally ... and then reporting them? If the state of Hawaii considers it a serious crime, then something would/should be done about it, right? "Those in power" (city, county, state) need to get on the same page, and decide what's right and what's wrong, not some of them look past what's happening with a wink and a nod!
Apr 5th, 2007, 10:57 AM
#38
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I don't know whether I should laugh or cry at a person who thinks tourists should be allowed to break the law by staying at illegal transient rentals in Kailua because Kailua is so much nicer than Waikiki. Does this person have the intelligence to realize that Kailua is so much nicer than Waikiki BECAUSE TRANSIENT RENTALS ARE ILLEGAL THERE?
I'm so glad that Kailua was maintained as a beautiful residential area so people like bobludlow can now enjoy it. If the illegal transient rentals ruin Kailua for future generations and turn it into another Waikiki, that's ok. As long as bobludlow gets to enjoy it right now, that's all that matters. Screw future generations. And screw the people of Honolulu (including Kailua) who think they have a right to control their own zoning laws. Democracy and representational government have no place when it comes to bobludlow enjoying Kailua.
lcuy - many thanks to realtors like you who could abuse Hawaii's beauty to make a quick buck, yet choose not to. Future generations will benefit, and I'd like to see my grandkids be able to enjoy Hawaii too.
elsiemoo - I read the state is trying to stop the illegal rentals - someone mentioned Kauai - but are very short-handed. Seeing how high taxes in Hawaii are, I don't know if hiring more people (probably covered by HGEA union, right?) is the answer. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are more and more enforcement actions in the future.
I'm so glad that Kailua was maintained as a beautiful residential area so people like bobludlow can now enjoy it. If the illegal transient rentals ruin Kailua for future generations and turn it into another Waikiki, that's ok. As long as bobludlow gets to enjoy it right now, that's all that matters. Screw future generations. And screw the people of Honolulu (including Kailua) who think they have a right to control their own zoning laws. Democracy and representational government have no place when it comes to bobludlow enjoying Kailua.
lcuy - many thanks to realtors like you who could abuse Hawaii's beauty to make a quick buck, yet choose not to. Future generations will benefit, and I'd like to see my grandkids be able to enjoy Hawaii too.
elsiemoo - I read the state is trying to stop the illegal rentals - someone mentioned Kauai - but are very short-handed. Seeing how high taxes in Hawaii are, I don't know if hiring more people (probably covered by HGEA union, right?) is the answer. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are more and more enforcement actions in the future.
Apr 5th, 2007, 05:14 PM
#39
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Look, there's absolutely no way that Kailua will ever look like Waikiki - at least not in our or even in our children's lifetimes. When a few beach homes start renting out a spare bedroom or small cottage you don't suddenly get giant shopping malls, convention centers, and 25-story hotels, for crying out loud.
Furthermore+
-, Kailua isn't some unspoiled Eden whose unique and cherished way of life is at constant risk of being destroyed. It's just a bedroom community with convenient services and a very pretty beach.
And finally, for those claiming that I'm not knowledgeable about the situation or the community - are you reading the same forum I am? The anti-b&b crowd keep confusing Kailua with Kauai...b&bs with waikiki. I find it very hard to believe that they've spent as much time in Kailua as I have. They certainly don't seem very familiar with the place.
Furthermore+
-, Kailua isn't some unspoiled Eden whose unique and cherished way of life is at constant risk of being destroyed. It's just a bedroom community with convenient services and a very pretty beach.
And finally, for those claiming that I'm not knowledgeable about the situation or the community - are you reading the same forum I am? The anti-b&b crowd keep confusing Kailua with Kauai...b&bs with waikiki. I find it very hard to believe that they've spent as much time in Kailua as I have. They certainly don't seem very familiar with the place.
Apr 5th, 2007, 05:51 PM
#40
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It took me a while, but I've finally realized that I've wasted way too many words where elsiemoo has been able to sum it all up so perfectly. No one in responsible government positions honestly cares about this issue. Because if they did, there would be a whole lot more enforcement that we've seen. This means that only a small minority of Oahu voters cares about unlicensed B&Bs.
I've allowed a few online lunatics to get me all worked up instead of focusing on answering hilversum's simple questions. To get from the airport to Kailua using buses will require at least one transfer, and will take a lot of time. Renting a car would make everything easier. Likewise, if you want a choice of where to eat out or to buy your supplies you will probably need a car to get around Kailua. Plus there is plenty of other places on the island worth visiting during your stay. As for nightlife - there is some, but nothing like a city would offer. Kailua is a relaxing place - why not enjoy the quiet evenings and then go to bed early enough to rise with the sun for a morning swim?
Please do come to Kailua, hilversum. You won't find poolside service or umbrellas in your drinks, but you will find a wonderful place to slow down, get a tan, and meet some wonderful people who are happy to share their slice of heaven with mainlanders. Don't let a few sour apples on this website spoil your holiday plans.
I've allowed a few online lunatics to get me all worked up instead of focusing on answering hilversum's simple questions. To get from the airport to Kailua using buses will require at least one transfer, and will take a lot of time. Renting a car would make everything easier. Likewise, if you want a choice of where to eat out or to buy your supplies you will probably need a car to get around Kailua. Plus there is plenty of other places on the island worth visiting during your stay. As for nightlife - there is some, but nothing like a city would offer. Kailua is a relaxing place - why not enjoy the quiet evenings and then go to bed early enough to rise with the sun for a morning swim?
Please do come to Kailua, hilversum. You won't find poolside service or umbrellas in your drinks, but you will find a wonderful place to slow down, get a tan, and meet some wonderful people who are happy to share their slice of heaven with mainlanders. Don't let a few sour apples on this website spoil your holiday plans.
