Just got back from LA--why so many homeless people?
Mar 11th, 2002, 09:52 AM
#21
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I do feel compassion for homeless who are mentally ill or deficient and forced to live on the streets for lack of shelter. It's outrageous that we, as a country, no longer will provide for these people. However, where I live, there are constant handouts available for those who simply do not wish to support themselves. I do not feel that it is a kindness here to create dependency; the cycle tends to repeat itself from generation to generation.
Mar 11th, 2002, 12:47 PM
#22
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to cd from r: you wrote: "...again, I ask....if you truly believe that most are not there because they choose to be, what are YOU doing to help them????"
I'm not sure here what you mean. What does their choice and our help have to do with one another? I personally have volunteered at a food agency for many, many years,that provides free meals and packaged foods for homeless, chronically ill, and poor. Professionally,our clinic offers free medical care and counseling for homeless people and we do quite a bit of that sort of work. That said, I don't see how that effects anyone's choice.
I do understand where you are coming from because I hear a lot of people who subscribe to the "pull up your socks" philosophy of life and I , too, think that applies at times. But as normal healthy people it is very difficult for us to understand the type of entropy that sets in under poor life conditions. Re-read Cindy's first post at 4:48PM, it is very clear and well-written on this subject. And, of course, you have your opinion and I am not trying to influence that.
I'm not sure here what you mean. What does their choice and our help have to do with one another? I personally have volunteered at a food agency for many, many years,that provides free meals and packaged foods for homeless, chronically ill, and poor. Professionally,our clinic offers free medical care and counseling for homeless people and we do quite a bit of that sort of work. That said, I don't see how that effects anyone's choice.
I do understand where you are coming from because I hear a lot of people who subscribe to the "pull up your socks" philosophy of life and I , too, think that applies at times. But as normal healthy people it is very difficult for us to understand the type of entropy that sets in under poor life conditions. Re-read Cindy's first post at 4:48PM, it is very clear and well-written on this subject. And, of course, you have your opinion and I am not trying to influence that.
Mar 11th, 2002, 01:32 PM
#24
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Okay let's see. Suppose someone lost their job (and I believe quite a few people can relate to that) and couldn't pay rent on enemployment checks. They became homeless. Now they have no place to live, no place to wash up, no permanent address and no money. Now, you say that there are jobs paying $6.50 an hour. How do they get washed up to apply? How do they get to the job without a car? What do they wear to apply? If you get the job, how on earth can you feed yourself, clothe yourself and find a place to live on that kind of money? What if you have children? What address do they put on your application? Where do they get their unemployement checks? I mean they can't be mailed to them. And, if they don't have money for transportation to unemployment then I guess they just won't get any help? If they have kids what do they do when they go looking for jobs? Leave the kids at the shelter? Daycare or babysitters are out of the question. Then again, maybe the kids are old enough for school. It sure is easy enrolling when you (a) don't have an address, (b) can't pay any fees, (c) don't have money for clothes, supplies, gym fees etc.
Everyone says shelters are the answer. Yes, they are helpful, but they fill up quickly. Families with older childern often have to be split up. And, sorry to say, but crime does run in some shelters.
Some of you have no human compassion. Yes, there are homeless people who were/are hopeless alcoholics or drug addicts. And, no, I have a hard time relating to them. But, you cannot lump all homeless people into this category. Statistics say that the majority of the US population in just a few paychecks away from being homeless themselves. Seriously think about it. If you lost your income how long do you think you would be able to go on? What about if you were hit with a catastrophic illness in your family and your insurance was cancelled.
It's great that so many of us have the good fortune to travel and experience the world. So many of us don't have to worry where our next meal is coming from. We need to stop looking down on those who can't.
Lastly, if you can't stand to look at the homeless than just stay home.
Everyone says shelters are the answer. Yes, they are helpful, but they fill up quickly. Families with older childern often have to be split up. And, sorry to say, but crime does run in some shelters.
Some of you have no human compassion. Yes, there are homeless people who were/are hopeless alcoholics or drug addicts. And, no, I have a hard time relating to them. But, you cannot lump all homeless people into this category. Statistics say that the majority of the US population in just a few paychecks away from being homeless themselves. Seriously think about it. If you lost your income how long do you think you would be able to go on? What about if you were hit with a catastrophic illness in your family and your insurance was cancelled.
It's great that so many of us have the good fortune to travel and experience the world. So many of us don't have to worry where our next meal is coming from. We need to stop looking down on those who can't.
Lastly, if you can't stand to look at the homeless than just stay home.
Mar 11th, 2002, 02:08 PM
#25
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This post has probably lasted long enough because we will never solve this problem here on this forum. But, to KKJ: It's at home that I can see the homeless and it is here that they are homeless because they choose to be. The fast food places are hiring at 6.50 per hr. I have many friends who would and do pay 10.00 per hour for house cleaning. They are homeless because of choice. Now, if there are those who are feeble and sick and cannot work, then as a community, we need to help them. You ask, "If I lost my job, what would I do?" Well, I did. I found another one. The person I respect more then anyone else in the world is my Mother. She worked every day of her life in a factory. She took the bus or walked to work to raise me. We lived in a one room walkup flat with a bath shared with 4 other apartments. Our room was emaculate and my two outfits for school freshly laundried every day. I ate vegetables every day and meat once a week. I was not poor because my Mom taught me a work ethic that is with me to this day. She made $1.00 an hour and there was no greater success than she. This is what the homeless are missing. Honor and dignity. I would like them to learn that, but if we as a society continue to enable them to be bums, they will never learn it.
Mar 11th, 2002, 02:12 PM
#26
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It occurs to me that this is partly just another variation on what someone called the "people as scenery" theme. Do you people just see object lessons, morality lessons, or unaesthetic reminders of the unfairness of life when you look at other people?
Some of you seem to think people are scenery and undecorative people should be banished from your view. To deal with your discomfort you throw blame and shame around.
Well, I am deeply ashamed of you.
Some of you seem to think people are scenery and undecorative people should be banished from your view. To deal with your discomfort you throw blame and shame around.
Well, I am deeply ashamed of you.
Mar 11th, 2002, 03:41 PM
#27
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CD, I'm a provider of housing for homeless individuals and families. My "typical" client (statistically) is a seven year old white girl, with a 23 year old single mom (do the math.)
But we also house homeless individuals who came to our shelters or transitional housing facilities off the street. Statistically, over 80% of these individuals are chronically mentally ill, and a big percentage of those folks have dual or multiple diagnoses, including chemical addition, AIDS, chronic liver or circulatory disease, what have you. A high percentage are developmentally disabled or delayed, and I would bet money that many many of them suffered from child abuse and/or fetal alcohol syndrome.
Most of the folks still on the street are there because they're not taking their prescribed medications, and there's no system in place (usually due to budget cuts or court rulings) to monitor and force them back on the wagon. Schizophrenic people can behave for all the world like they're homeless "by choice" but it's just not so - they will fluctuate between lucidity and confusion or anger, they can't hold a job, they can't stay long in structured residential settings... they need to be in a supervised medical environment but we can't afford it evidently. Thus they become public service hogs - emergency rooms, detox centers, jails... all of which cost way more per bed-night than my housing facilities. But there are bond issues to be sold for jail construction, just not shelters or mental health outreach facilities.
It's too bad that seeing homeless people upsets visitors to cities, be it LA or Bombay. The difference (in my mind, at least) is that one of those countries has the wealth and the smarts and the compassion to do something about it, but isn't.
But we also house homeless individuals who came to our shelters or transitional housing facilities off the street. Statistically, over 80% of these individuals are chronically mentally ill, and a big percentage of those folks have dual or multiple diagnoses, including chemical addition, AIDS, chronic liver or circulatory disease, what have you. A high percentage are developmentally disabled or delayed, and I would bet money that many many of them suffered from child abuse and/or fetal alcohol syndrome.
Most of the folks still on the street are there because they're not taking their prescribed medications, and there's no system in place (usually due to budget cuts or court rulings) to monitor and force them back on the wagon. Schizophrenic people can behave for all the world like they're homeless "by choice" but it's just not so - they will fluctuate between lucidity and confusion or anger, they can't hold a job, they can't stay long in structured residential settings... they need to be in a supervised medical environment but we can't afford it evidently. Thus they become public service hogs - emergency rooms, detox centers, jails... all of which cost way more per bed-night than my housing facilities. But there are bond issues to be sold for jail construction, just not shelters or mental health outreach facilities.
It's too bad that seeing homeless people upsets visitors to cities, be it LA or Bombay. The difference (in my mind, at least) is that one of those countries has the wealth and the smarts and the compassion to do something about it, but isn't.
Mar 11th, 2002, 05:03 PM
#28
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cd-
"I have many friends who would and do pay 10.00 per hour for house cleaning. They are homeless because of choice."
If your friends are homeless (by choice or not), why on earth are they paying someone to clean their houses?
And what exactly is it they get cleaned? Subway grates?
"I have many friends who would and do pay 10.00 per hour for house cleaning. They are homeless because of choice."
If your friends are homeless (by choice or not), why on earth are they paying someone to clean their houses?
And what exactly is it they get cleaned? Subway grates?
Mar 11th, 2002, 05:06 PM
#29
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Dear Anonymous
You write a wonderfully intelligent post. What would be your solution? I admit I am very skeptical... but I am open to hear solutions, as I believe others are. I teach. Many, many of our students have their tuition paid for by us, the USA government. I can honestly say that they are the worst students GPA. The students who pay their own way are by far the most committed. It has proven to me that to enable people is not a favor or a help. So....I would be interested in hearing what your educated opinions are. You have just heard mine.
You write a wonderfully intelligent post. What would be your solution? I admit I am very skeptical... but I am open to hear solutions, as I believe others are. I teach. Many, many of our students have their tuition paid for by us, the USA government. I can honestly say that they are the worst students GPA. The students who pay their own way are by far the most committed. It has proven to me that to enable people is not a favor or a help. So....I would be interested in hearing what your educated opinions are. You have just heard mine.
Mar 11th, 2002, 08:02 PM
#30
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cd - I realize you were addressing your question to Anonymous and not to me, but I have some thoughts on the subject. What we want to do is empower, not enable. There are advocacy groups that speak for, and with, individuals affected by poverty, hopelessness, mental illness and addiction. I don't know if you know about Harm Reduction theory; I can't offhand recommend anything specific that you could read about it, but the internet will probably be a good resource. And please understand that I'm not saying all homeless and addicted people are beyond reproach; that couldn't possibly be true. But if we can take enough responsibility for each other to understand that people who can work need the things kkj was talking about - a place to wash up, a place to make and receive phone calls and mail, work clothes, etc. as well as non-judgmental emotional support while their lives are in chaos, and an opportunity to upgrade skills, and if we can also understand that there are some people who truly can't work, then we can begin to make some genuinely helpful changes.
Mar 11th, 2002, 10:07 PM
#31
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CD, you’re a teacher, and you ask me what my solution is, and my answer is: CD, teach our children well. Teach them tolerance for those whose lives are not as tidy or as civil as yours or theirs is. Teach them that not all parents love their children and not all children love their parents, as they ought to. Teach them that ignorance – or worse, apathy – about how the real world functions is a reliable path to prejudice and, often, brutality. Teach them the ten commandments, even if they’re not posted on the school walls. Teach them the Bill of Rights – no, make them memorize them. Teach them that actions have consequences, and inaction, too. Teach them, above all else, that we share collective responsibility for one another, and that homelessness or mental illness or poverty or violence is the price we pay for smugness and sloppy thinking. Teach them, again and again, that those who are quick to judge are the poorest of judges.
The thing is, CD, that this is a problem that may well take generations to solve. But the first step is that we stop making it worse by raising generations of Americans who, out of ignorance or intent, scorn those around them who are different or foreign or ill or disabled. The big issues facing this country are dreadfully complex – how could it be otherwise in a community of 300 million? And the way you work through complex problems is patiently, deliberately, and with an open mind, because you never know when you might find the knot that caused the whole snarl in the first place.
There are solutions to homelessness. Some involve money: for shelters, mental health care facilities, improved law and justice services, case managers and doctors. And some involve institutional changes: predictability of law enforcement for those who overstep the bounds of civil behavior; streamlined administration of social and medical services; better targeting of housing subsidies, things like that. And yes, in many cases it needs the homeless people themselves to get a grip on their own condition and accept, or better, seek, the aid that’s already on offer.
But the common prerequisite to all these solutions is that we have a society of thinking, compassionate, sensible citizens, armed with knowledge and ethics and tools. That’s where you come in, CD. Teach our children well.
The thing is, CD, that this is a problem that may well take generations to solve. But the first step is that we stop making it worse by raising generations of Americans who, out of ignorance or intent, scorn those around them who are different or foreign or ill or disabled. The big issues facing this country are dreadfully complex – how could it be otherwise in a community of 300 million? And the way you work through complex problems is patiently, deliberately, and with an open mind, because you never know when you might find the knot that caused the whole snarl in the first place.
There are solutions to homelessness. Some involve money: for shelters, mental health care facilities, improved law and justice services, case managers and doctors. And some involve institutional changes: predictability of law enforcement for those who overstep the bounds of civil behavior; streamlined administration of social and medical services; better targeting of housing subsidies, things like that. And yes, in many cases it needs the homeless people themselves to get a grip on their own condition and accept, or better, seek, the aid that’s already on offer.
But the common prerequisite to all these solutions is that we have a society of thinking, compassionate, sensible citizens, armed with knowledge and ethics and tools. That’s where you come in, CD. Teach our children well.
Mar 12th, 2002, 01:46 AM
#33
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As for the situation in Santa Monica with its homeless population and the availability of services for them, just use www.google.com search engine and type in:
Santa Monica homeless
You'll be surprised at how many shelters, soup kitchens, and many other services there are.
Santa Monica homeless
You'll be surprised at how many shelters, soup kitchens, and many other services there are.
Mar 12th, 2002, 02:58 AM
#34
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I believe that most homeless people are victims of circumstance (brought on by themselves or because of outside influences such as mental illness, alcoholism, drugs, or loss of job).
However, this post reminded me of a news story I heard yesterday of a female panhandler in Toronto. Someone noticed that she was picked up every evening in a new Chevy Lumina. She was reported to the authorities who followed her home to her 17th story apartment filled with leather furniture and a large flat screen TV!
I'm sure this is highly unusual, but thought I would pass it along.
However, this post reminded me of a news story I heard yesterday of a female panhandler in Toronto. Someone noticed that she was picked up every evening in a new Chevy Lumina. She was reported to the authorities who followed her home to her 17th story apartment filled with leather furniture and a large flat screen TV!
I'm sure this is highly unusual, but thought I would pass it along.
Mar 12th, 2002, 07:23 AM
#36
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I think that I am a fairly compasionate person, even though I am a New Yorker! : - )
I pass at least 15 homeless people just on my daily routes each day. If I gave a handout to every single homeless person, I too would be homeless. However, there are many organizations that drive around in vans & hand out food, many homeless shelters, & even more churches offering food, clothing, showers, counseling etc. At some point, yes, it is their choice not to seek assistance (unless they are mentally incompetant).
A few months ago I passed a homeless man sitting on the sidewalk begging for money as I was entering a deli for some dinner. I ordered a beef barley soup to start & a sandwich. When they set the soup down I felt so guilty about the homeless man that I asked the waitress to put it in a 'to go' container with a spoon, napkins & crackers. I brought it outside to the man. He took it, opened the bag, handed it back to me, and said, "sorry lady, i'm not a soup person". I was speechless. Then I realized that he was not a hungry homeless person, he was a homeless person who only wanted my money so he could buy more booze. I went home and made a printed list of all the shelters, soup kitchens, church centers, etc., shrank it down and made about 500 copies. Now, when they put their hand out, that is what they get back.
I pass at least 15 homeless people just on my daily routes each day. If I gave a handout to every single homeless person, I too would be homeless. However, there are many organizations that drive around in vans & hand out food, many homeless shelters, & even more churches offering food, clothing, showers, counseling etc. At some point, yes, it is their choice not to seek assistance (unless they are mentally incompetant).
A few months ago I passed a homeless man sitting on the sidewalk begging for money as I was entering a deli for some dinner. I ordered a beef barley soup to start & a sandwich. When they set the soup down I felt so guilty about the homeless man that I asked the waitress to put it in a 'to go' container with a spoon, napkins & crackers. I brought it outside to the man. He took it, opened the bag, handed it back to me, and said, "sorry lady, i'm not a soup person". I was speechless. Then I realized that he was not a hungry homeless person, he was a homeless person who only wanted my money so he could buy more booze. I went home and made a printed list of all the shelters, soup kitchens, church centers, etc., shrank it down and made about 500 copies. Now, when they put their hand out, that is what they get back.
Mar 12th, 2002, 09:53 AM
#40
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Many of the homeless are entitled to benefits but need help in obtaining them.
My son went to law school in LA and worked as a volunteer helping the homeless obtain pensions, trusts, military benefits including health care,etc.
Many don't realize they are entitled to these benefits or don't know how to apply for them or appeal a denial of benefits.
Until informed by my son, I didn't realize how many highly educated people were out on the streets.
My son went to law school in LA and worked as a volunteer helping the homeless obtain pensions, trusts, military benefits including health care,etc.
Many don't realize they are entitled to these benefits or don't know how to apply for them or appeal a denial of benefits.
Until informed by my son, I didn't realize how many highly educated people were out on the streets.
